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0.94 Carat Diamond Ring Question


pawlu_1973
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Hi, I am new to the forum. May I kindly ask for some advice pls. Currently tempted to buy a diamond ring for my wife as a surprise, but would like to get some hints as I dont wish to be fooled. I am looking at a certified piece claiming its ; 0.94 carat,  clarity loupe clean, colour F Rare white +, finish very good. Shape brilliant cut diamond. What do you think a fair price would be in Euro ?

regards

Paul 

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There are several variables before we get to price but you've got a big red flag.  'Certified' by whom?  Loupe clean is not a standard industry term and I assume those are their words, not yours since most people don't use the word 'loupe' all that often.  They're also missing a significant fraction of the data about the stone.  Did they give you anything more?

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Another way of asking the same questions as Neil's:

 

Assuming "loupe clean" means no more than VS2 , but above I1, there's 2000+ diamonds listed here that more or less match what you know of this one: http://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds/?sortOrder=price&sortDesc=1&fShape=Rnd&fCaratLo=0.90&fCaratHi=0.99&fColorLo=F&fColorHi=F&fClarityLo=FL&fClarityHi=SI3&fCutLo=&fCutHi=poor&fDepthLo=50.0&fDepthHi=80.0&fTableLo=40.0&fTableHi=80.0&fSymLo=ideal&fSymHi=vgood&fPolLo=ideal&fPolHi=vgood&fCulLo=&fCulHi=vlarge&fFlrLo=&fFlrHi=vstrong&fPriceLo=0&fPriceHi=1000000&fLabGIA=1&fLabAGS=1&fLabEGL=1&adv=1

 

Prices vary from over $10000 (say about €10000 once you pay VAT), to $1500 or so. Where is your stone on that rather large spectrum?

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I don't have any more info, however I will be taking it at a reputable jeweller who negotiate in diamonds and check the specs. At least I have a better idea. The certificate has been issued by a diamond dealer locally and it's not internationally approved. They are asking for 6k euro for it

Thanks, but no thanks. At least not without knowing a lot more about the diamond. The "reputable" jeweller, incidentally, has a vested interest in selling you his/her stock, not a competitor's, so unless you absolutely know and trust his/her judgement, it's not a very good source for unbiased information (and - honestly - the vast majority of retail jewellers are not that good at grading).
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So what we ‘know’ is that the seller dealer has made a few grading claims using an unknown scale, right?  That, of course, doesn’t make him wrong, whatever it is that he’s trying to say, but the possibility for troubles are enormous, as you've obviously already determined by the fact that you're here asking question. 

 

Your proposed solution is to rely on the word of a local competitor.  Again, that doesn’t make them wrong, but I would pay attention to both their own qualifications, the conditions of the examination and the conflict of interest present.  For example, is it mounted?   The difference between 0.94cts and ‘approximately’ 0.94cts is important.  0.90 is a big price threshold on diamonds and 0.89 is within the margin of error for examining a mounted stone.

 

So now you're in the position of evaluating jewelers, not so much jewels.  How did you pick this particular stone?  How did you pick the dealer selling it?  How did you pick the jeweler you're proposing to be your grader?

Edited by denverappraiser
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So I have been out and went to one of the best local diamond dealers. Took along this ring. After looking at it with uv, and different light and magnifying he concluded that it's more or less compliant with the certificate copy annexed although back then locally we didn't have the full diamond spec breakdown certificate. Also noted that one of the signatures on certificate is the HRD gemologist. The only thing he mentioned is that the girdle is not polished/faceted or something like that. This is a gem of about 12 to 15 years ago. He mentioned that I can still get a gia certificate at an extra cost. He said that at 5000 euro is max I should pay considering the risk that gia might reduce slightly the certificate hence effecting price. This is a .94 carat. The local shop offered me same spec but with the inscription and gia certification sized at .91 carat priced 7000 euro. So I will be saving at least 2k for a slightly bigger gem. What's your view on this annexed certification ?

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Nothing different. 

 

Polished girdle doesn’t affect much but is handy.

 

Age has no affect (and there’s no test for that by the way)

 

Given the international shipping issues, GIA will be a pain to do business with but he’s right, it’s possible to send it in although  I doubt the seller would be willing to cooperate with the schedule and budget. 

 

Your specs are not using the GIA grading scale.  How did the local store offer the same specs with a GIA graded stone? 

 

The document SAYS it was graded mounted so we’re no longer guessing.  See above comment about that.  There is no way to separate out IF from VS1 (that’s 4 grades) on a mounted stone with the GIA clarity scale.  I still don’t understand what their clarity scale means but they gave it the top grade so I’m curious how they got to where they got. 

 

All of that said, you’ve seen it and you love it.  It’s a price that you’re happy with and you’ve compared it favorably to offers from other dealers.  That’s all good.  What's the question?

Edited by denverappraiser
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Another way of asking the same questions as Neil's:

 

Assuming "loupe clean" means no more than VS2 , but above I1, there's 2000+ diamonds listed here that more or less match what you know of this one: http://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds/?sortOrder=price&sortDesc=1&fShape=Rnd&fCaratLo=0.90&fCaratHi=0.99&fColorLo=F&fColorHi=F&fClarityLo=FL&fClarityHi=SI3&fCutLo=&fCutHi=poor&fDepthLo=50.0&fDepthHi=80.0&fTableLo=40.0&fTableHi=80.0&fSymLo=ideal&fSymHi=vgood&fPolLo=ideal&fPolHi=vgood&fCulLo=&fCulHi=vlarge&fFlrLo=&fFlrHi=vstrong&fPriceLo=0&fPriceHi=1000000&fLabGIA=1&fLabAGS=1&fLabEGL=1&adv=1

 

Prices vary from over $10000 (say about €10000 once you pay VAT), to $1500 or so. Where is your stone on that rather large spectrum?

A little correction.... Loupe-clean is used in diamond clarity standard and its a better quality than vvs1. so its mistaken when you quoted VS2 or similar. note this link http://www.internationaldiamondcouncil.org/books/idc-rule-book/23-clarity-grading-scale

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So this story didnt end up like fairy tales.... there wasnt a happy ending at all :(  Well, I have been close to the deal but wanted another opinion and took this diamond to a certified GIA & HRD gemologist. He pointed out that although the cut is very good, the clarity doesnt comply with certificate and neither does the colour. Also he showed me the fluorocent  effect on it which supposed to be either none or few. On this it almost lit up! I ended up refusing it as I dont want to buy an inferior quality. Been offered 2 options, 1 with a GIA and another with a HRD certification and number engraved. Both triple excellent with an E colour. Obviously at a much higher price but understandable

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It goes to show... better to be cautious, and bargains are rare.

 

FWIW, the report didn't say anything on cut; it assigned a "very good" to finish (polish and symmetry), which is nothing really to do with cut proportions.

 

Again FWIW, fluorescence is not "supposed" to be anything - the report didn't mention it, and the effect of fluorescence on colourless diamonds appearance is at worst negligible as long as they don't show up as fuzzy, smoky or oily when in sunlight: http://www.gia.edu/doi/10_5741-GEMS_33_4_244

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Well after all this hassle I settled down to buy an approved hrd certified diamond with engraved serial. I am buying a 0.83 with an E Color and triple excellent and IF which means internally flawless right ? Got it for euro 7200 including the White gold setting. It's the best I managed to squeeze regards the deal. This dealer is an approved hrd and gia gemologist and stock almost only gia & hrd certified diamonds. He also showed me a 1.01 carat for same price but he explained that quality is by far inferior. And size not always matter. At least although paying extra 2k on what I planned to buy , now have peace in mind that I negotiated on something high quality

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