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Help Me Choose Between These 2 Princess Cut From Bn


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I am looking to buy 1 carat loose princess cut diamond from BN. my budget for the stone is around $6000. Is my budget enough to get me a beautiful princess cut stone in terms of (fire, brilliance, ideal cut, etc)?

 

Please help me choose between these 2 princess cut I have on hold at BN.

 

Stone #1

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04643318

$5093

1.03 carat

VS1

H color

table 70%

depth 71.8%

 

Stone #2

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04475362

$6250

1.03 carat

VS1

F color

table 70%

depth 71.5%

 

What do you think of the stones?

 

Basically what I can see is the difference in color and about $1200 price difference. Is it worth it? will the color difference be noticeable to the naked eye side by side?

 

what do you think of the GCAL report?

 

Any thought or advice will be greatly appreciated.

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I am looking to buy 1 carat loose princess cut diamond from BN. my budget for the stone is around $6000. Is my budget enough to get me a beautiful princess cut stone in terms of (fire, brilliance, ideal cut, etc)?

Yes. However you haven't specified colour and clarity...

 

Please help me choose between these 2 princess cut I have on hold at BN.

 

Stone #1

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04643318

$5093

1.03 carat

VS1

H color

table 70%

depth 71.8%

 

Stone #2

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04475362

$6250

1.03 carat

VS1

F color

table 70%

depth 71.5%

 

What do you think of the stones?

Neither shows up as available on Blue Nile, so we can't see any data... other than what you pasted from the GIA (?) reports. This lacks any information on cut, which seems to be important for you (and it certainly would be important for me).

 

Basically what I can see is the difference in color and about $1200 price difference. Is it worth it? will the color difference be noticeable to the naked eye side by side?

Colour difference between an F and an H will probably be visible with both stones unset and right next to each other. In "real life" (stone set, moving attached to a ring on somebody's finger) it's much more doubtful. However, sensitivity to colour is a very individual thing, and what is apparent to you may be totally missed by me (and vice versa).

 

Worth it? It depends on what you value. At the moment, we have no info on cut, and to me that's significantly more important (and visible!) than going from F to H.

 

what do you think of the GCAL report?

I find it quite useless other than to assess optical symmetry. The reason is that GCAL do not disclose what they are actually measuring, never mind how their grade is arrived at.
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GCAL is a pretty good outfit but those reports they do for Blue Nile don’t actually add much for shopping purposes. 

 

They are declaring the cut to be Blue Nile Signature Ideal.  (So what?  It’s an opaque system and BN already made this declaration anyway.  It’s like a car dealer grading your car a ‘creampuff’.  Maybe it’s nice and maybe it’s not but the grade is useless without knowing exactly what’s being measured.)  This is for BN marketing purposes, not yours.

 

They are certifying that the stone they saw is the same stone represented on the GIA report and that they agree with the information presented.  (This would be useful it were YOU who was the client but to the extent that people are worried about this it has to do with whether the stone you received is the same.  The fact that the seller showed it to 1 or 10 of their friends months in advance gains you nothing).  The agreement with GIA's grading is only important if you count GCAL as credible.  That is to say, you chose them as your expert to provide a second opinion to GIA's  That doesn't seem to be the case here. 

 

They issue an ‘optical brilliance’ grade on the GCAL scale. (Same problem as the Signature Ideal comment above.  It’s not that it’s conceptually useless, it’s that it’s used as a marketing gimmick.  You’ll never see a ‘fair’ or even a ‘good’ for sale.  That’s because dealers don’t want to include one of these reports unless it says excellent.  Maybe it’s killer, maybe it’s not, but what have you learned from the report.  They’re all excellent and they don’t even tell you what excellent actually means.)

 

They add the gemprint scan, which, if registered will get you an insurance discount from certain/many insurance companies.  (That's useful if you have an expensive stone and are using one of the participating insurance companies.  The discount can offset the cost fairly quickly.  You can get it done yourself but it’s handy to have them do it in advance.  For shopping purposes it does nothing.  Registration is $50 by the way).

Edited by denverappraiser
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Thank you for all your advice.


 


This diamond is on hold so you will not be able to find it on BN. Are you able to click on the link I posted below stone #1 and stone #2.


 


For $6000, clarity I want at least VS2. For color at least H or colorless to the naked eye.


 


They actually attach the real diamond photo in the GCAL report, is it possible to tell if it is a good diamond?


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I tried to use the links you posted before writing my post...

 

Back to your budget - plenty of H/VS2 (or even G/VS2) well cut princesses for $6k.

 

A single photo is totally useless, unfortunately. Even many photos aren't particularly useful unless you know something of the condition(s) in which they have been taken (and - if you want to use the photos for comparison purposes - the conditions are quite similar).

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Thank you again for the replies

 

Sorry about the broken link, I will write the diamond specs here.

 

Stone #1
http://www.bluenile....ails/LD04643318
$5093
1.03 carat
VS1
H color
table 70%
depth 71.8%

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Girdle: Slightly Thick 3%

Culet: None

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 5.60 x 5.57 x 4.00 mm

Crown: 10.8%

Pavillion: 58%

 

 
Stone #2
http://www.bluenile....ails/LD04475362
$6250
1.03 carat
VS1
F color
table 70%
depth 71.5%

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Girdle: Slightly Thick 3.1%

Culet: None

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 5.57 x 5.55 x 3.97 mm

Crown: 12.1%

Pavillion: 56.6%

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Thank you again for the replies

 

Sorry about the broken link, I will write the diamond specs here.

 [snip]

The issue is that the information you have isn't particularly useful in understanding cut; outside of the GCAL report (with the limitations discussed above), Blue Nile does not (and will not) supply any information that is useful (or at least that I find useful) in that respect such as reflector images, 3D scan data or even just good quality photos and video. Or an AGS report with a reliable cut grade.

 

At this point, you have basically two choices:

 

1. Try it out. BN gives you a generous return period, and all you have at stake is return shipping charges. Get the stone you think you'd like best, compare it to what else you may have available locally and decide whether to keep or return.

 

While I am definitely not recommending you shop in either place, both Tiffany and Jared/Kay's have decently cut stones (with Jared/Kay insist that you want to see diamonds from the AGS-graded "Peerless" collection - they also have a lot of - ahem - far less interesting diamonds).

 

2. Change supplier. Or at the very least pick stones from BN with an AGS report.

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I took your advice and look for AGS-certified diamond and found it at Whiteflash. It all came down to these 3 stones. I like the first one just because it has 3 chevrons, the other two only has 2. I thought the 3 chevrons look shinier. Here are the specs.

 

WF Stone 1

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2957772.htm#

1.041 carat

G color

Clarity: VS2

Table: 65.4%

Depth: 73.8%

Price: $5877

 

WF Stone 2

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2928617.htm#

1.05 carat

G color

Clarity: VS2

Table: 62.6%

Depth: 74.7%

Price: $5891

 

WF Stone 3

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2959567.htm#

1.057 carat

G color

Clarity: VS2

Table: 66.4%

Depth: 73.9%

Price: $6032

 

Are these diamonds any good? What do you think is the best of the 3 diamonds? any advice will be appreciated.

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They are definitely "good". Whether you'd like them more or less than the BN stones, only you could answer, by seeing them together.

 

"Best" at this level is quite subjective. I'd personally go for the 1.050 because I like smaller tables, higher crowns (more fire, less brightness) and precisely because it has 3 steps instead of 4 on the pavilion, thus is less "busy". Between the other two, I'd pick the 1.041 because of greater symmetry (and I see no reason to pick the 1.057 for an extra $150).

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Its really hard to speculate on the brilliance of those diamonds without any data, like crown height or photos.

Plenty of data - including a full Sarin report - is available on the Whiteflash site.

 

Assuming same quality princess cut stone, would you rather choose:

 

1.05 crt

G color

5.56x5.54x4.14

 

or

 

.995 crt

F color

5.49x5.42x4.11

 

for $250 less?

I'd go the other way... for one very simple reason: psychology. "It's a full carat". And with due respect, I submit that telling F from G once the stone is set will be at least as hard as telling 5.55 from 5.45 mm (in fact harder).
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Its really hard to speculate on the brilliance of those diamonds without any data, like crown height or photos.

Plenty of data - including a full Sarin report - is available on the Whiteflash site.

 

Assuming same quality princess cut stone, would you rather choose:

 

1.05 crt

G color

5.56x5.54x4.14

 

or

 

.995 crt

F color

5.49x5.42x4.11

 

for $250 less?

I'd go the other way... for one very simple reason: psychology. "It's a full carat". And with due respect, I submit that telling F from G once the stone is set will be at least as hard as telling 5.55 from 5.45 mm (in fact harder).

 

 

I wasnt referring to the whiteflash diamond, I was referring to the Blue Nile Diamonds. Hard for me to suggest to customers to go with AGS because they are a for profit lab, that have very close ties to the companies that push their standard. In my experience - they are usually 1 color grade weaker than GIA standards. 

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I wasnt referring to the whiteflash diamond, I was referring to the Blue Nile Diamonds.

Which is not where the conversation was.

 

Hard for me to suggest to customers to go with AGS because they are a for profit lab, that have very close ties to the companies that push their standard. In my experience - they are usually 1 color grade weaker than GIA standards.

GIA's lab is for profits too, and so are you and your score.

 

As to your claim on colour, perhaps - the important thing (to me) is that they are consistent. And frankly given the average chromatic discrimination capability of human beings, the difference between F, G, and H is quite marginal.

Edited by davidelevi
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I wasnt referring to the whiteflash diamond, I was referring to the Blue Nile Diamonds.

Which is not where the conversation was.

 

Hard for me to suggest to customers to go with AGS because they are a for profit lab, that have very close ties to the companies that push their standard. In my experience - they are usually 1 color grade weaker than GIA standards.

GIA's lab is for profits too, and so are you and your score.

 

As to your claim on colour, perhaps - the important thing (to me) is that they are consistent. And frankly given the average chromatic discrimination capability of human beings, the difference between F, G, and H is quite marginal.

 

 

Hi Davide - so did GIA recently go private? I thought they are or had been a not-for-profit lab/organization. 

 

Also, had no idea you guys were on WF. I think I may have opened the window earlier and forgot to refresh. 

 

J

Edited by Joshua Niamehr
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Non-profit status has to do with income taxes and ownership, not profitability or incentives.  The same is true of AGS by the way.  The lab is 100% owned by the American Gem Society, which is a non-profit.  They were actually founded by the same guy who founded GIA back in the 30's. 

Edited by denverappraiser
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I am making my decision very soon. It is down to these 2 stones now: (the left and middle from the picture)

 

post-134590-0-63522400-1414143490_thumb.jpg

post-134590-0-97951900-1414143492_thumb.jpg

 

1.050 carat

G color

Clarity: VS2

Table: 62.6%

Depth: 74.7%

Crown:13.2%

Measurement: 5.56x5.54x4.14

Price: $5891

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2928617.htm#

 

1.216 carat

G color

Clarity: VS2

Table: 64.9%

Depth: 74.7%

Crown: 11.6%

Measurement: 5.85x5.80x4.33

Price: $7180

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2980250.htm#

 

I know the 1.050ct is a good stone. (thanks davidelevi) Will the 1.216ct live up to it?

 

I don't mind spending a little more for a bigger stone. But from the picture I do not see any significant difference in size. But I don't know how is it in person. What do you guys think? Do you think the difference in price is worth it? I really like the 1.050ct because it looks more contrast. From the picture does the 1.216 G VS2 look more yellow than the 1.050ct?

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From the info available, I'd stick with the 1.05. The difference in price is partly VS1 vs VS2, but mostly the extra weight. It will be visibly larger - but the photo doesn't lie: the difference will be there, it just won't be overwhelming. Cut-wise, I'd like the 1.21 even more, but I - repeat I - would rather spend the extra $1300 on something else.

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I am making my decision very soon. It is down to these 2 stones now: (the left and middle from the picture)

 

attachicon.gifSBS_1.216ctGVS1-1.050ctGVS2-0.995ctFVS2.jpg

attachicon.gifTRAY_1.216ctGVS1-1.050ctGVS2-0.995ctFVS2.jpg

 

1.050 carat

G color

Clarity: VS2

Table: 62.6%

Depth: 74.7%

Crown:13.2%

Measurement: 5.56x5.54x4.14

Price: $5891

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2928617.htm#

 

1.216 carat

G color

Clarity: VS2

Table: 64.9%

Depth: 74.7%

Crown: 11.6%

Measurement: 5.85x5.80x4.33

Price: $7180

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2980250.htm#

 

I know the 1.050ct is a good stone. (thanks davidelevi) Will the 1.216ct live up to it?

 

I don't mind spending a little more for a bigger stone. But from the picture I do not see any significant difference in size. But I don't know how is it in person. What do you guys think? Do you think the difference in price is worth it? I really like the 1.050ct because it looks more contrast. From the picture does the 1.216 G VS2 look more yellow than the 1.050ct?

 

Both of these diamonds have too much depth and too small of tables - my clients have always been happiest when I recommended they stick to the "70/70" rule - you want to be as close as possible to 70% depth and table as you can be. 

 

When princess's have a small table they look pretty strange in my opinion. 

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