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Which One? What Is A Fair Price?


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Please help me pick between these three

 

Carat - 1.76

Color - H

Clarity - SI2

Cut - Excellent

Lab - GIA

Polish - Excellent

Symm - Excellent

Fluor - None

Measurements - 7.72 7.77 4.76

Depth - 61.5

Table - 57

Crown - 35

Pavilion - 40.8

 

Price for 1.76 - $12,200.00

 

 

Carat - 1.8

Color - H

Clarity - SI2

Cut - Excellent

Lab - GIA

Polish - Excellent

Symm - Very Good

Fluor - None

Measurements - 7.73 7.82 4.83

Depth - 62.1 

Table - 57

Crown - 36

Pavilion - 40.6

 

Price for 1.8 - $12,800.00

 

Carat - 2.08

Color - H

Clarity - SI2

Cut - Excellent

Lab - GIA

Polish - Excellent

Symm - Excellent

Fluor - Strong - blue

Measurements - 8.17 8.13 5.09

Depth - 62.4

Table - 57

Crown - 35

Pavilion -  41

 

Price for 2.08 - $13,000.00

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The first 2 are remarkably similar and both look pretty good in terms of proportions but you've got two big variables on #3 that may be important in this decision.  Firstly, it's bigger.  Over 2.0cts is a big deal in this business and it brings with it a significant price bump.  Secondly is the strong blue fluorescence, which comes at a discount.  That's why it's not a bunch more money.  These are offsetting each other so the price is about the same but it raises the questions of if you want the bigger size (and are willing to pay for it), and if you're willing to accept strong fluro in exchanged for a discount.

Edited by denverappraiser
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SI2 is the edge of the proverbial cliff on the 'eye clean' question.  Some are, some aren't.  Some are for some people under some lighting conditions.  For most people it's another one of the big questions.  Have you seen any or all of these?  Are they at the same dealer?

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They're all the same dealer. I haven't seen any in person yet. I am going to try to get the store to bring them in before I buy anything. I would not want a non "eye clean" diamond at all. 

 

I prefer a bigger diamond, but what do I lose with the strong fluor presence? I've heard differing things on fluor... 

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They're all the same dealer. I haven't seen any in person yet. I am going to try to get the store to bring them in before I buy anything. I would not want a non "eye clean" diamond at all. 

 

I prefer a bigger diamond, but what do I lose with the strong fluor presence? I've heard differing things on fluor... 

 

Fluorescence should have no impact on the diamond to the naked eye. If its not milky or hazy and you dont mind it - then its a great great buy.

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A small percentage of strong fluoro stones (less than 1% I think) will show an undesirable milky or hazy appearance in high UV environments.  Mostly this means direct sunlight.  It's easy enough to tell by looking at it in the sunlight but it's enough to affect the price and some people really dislike it.  Others don't mind and are happy with the lower prices.  There's a nice GIA article on this issue and I'll see if I can find you a link to it.  

 

Here' you go.  Happy reading. 

 

http://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/winter-1997-fluorescence-diamonds-moses

Edited by denverappraiser
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Companies like:

 

http://www.maisonbirks.com/en/collections/bridal-collections/nordic-light-trade/

 

and 

 

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/

 

Sell diamonds with medium+ fluorescence for a huge profit - so do consider them!

 

#1 and #3 should both be awesome if they are eye clean and not milky or hazy. #2 will not be as lively. 

Edited by Joshua Niamehr
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I have no problem with fluorescence.  I actually sort of like it.  The lower prices are just a bonus.  

 

By the way, several of the advertising dealers have that exact same stone listed for sale.  Terms and conditions vary a little from one to the next and they won't all let you look at it to check out either the eye clean or fluorescence questions and that's probably worth the extra cost for a personal presentation and inspection but you may be able to use the ads here to beat up you local store on price a little bit.  They can't always meet the bottom price because stores have a more expensive business model but it doesn't hurt to ask.   

 

http://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds/?sortOrder=price&sortDesc=0&fShape=Rnd&fCaratLo=2.08&fCaratHi=2.08&fColorLo=H&fColorHi=H&fClarityLo=SI2&fClarityHi=SI2&fCutLo=exc&fCutHi=exc&fDepthLo=50.0&fDepthHi=80.0&fTableLo=40.0&fTableHi=80.0&fSymLo=&fSymHi=poor&fPolLo=&fPolHi=poor&fCulLo=&fCulHi=vlarge&fFlrLo=&fFlrHi=vstrong&fPriceLo=0&fPriceHi=13500&fLabGIA=1

Edited by denverappraiser
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I have no problem with fluorescence.  I actually sort of like it.  The lower prices are just a bonus.  

 

By the way, several of the advertising dealers have that exact same stone listed for sale.  Terms and conditions vary a little from one to the next and they won't all let you look at it to check out either the eye clean or fluorescence questions and that's probably worth the extra cost for a personal presentation and inspection but you may be able to use the ads here to beat up you local store on price a little bit.  They can't always meet the bottom price because stores have a more expensive business model but it doesn't hurt to ask.   

 

http://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds/?sortOrder=price&sortDesc=0&fShape=Rnd&fCaratLo=2.08&fCaratHi=2.08&fColorLo=H&fColorHi=H&fClarityLo=SI2&fClarityHi=SI2&fCutLo=exc&fCutHi=exc&fDepthLo=50.0&fDepthHi=80.0&fTableLo=40.0&fTableHi=80.0&fSymLo=&fSymHi=poor&fPolLo=&fPolHi=poor&fCulLo=&fCulHi=vlarge&fFlrLo=&fFlrHi=vstrong&fPriceLo=0&fPriceHi=13500&fLabGIA=1

 

Thanks for looking that up Neil!!

 

The dealers comments on the 2 carat: Very Light Brown, Above70% EyeClean

 

So the answer is its not 100% eye clean and the color is a bit weak. 

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So the answer is its not 100% eye clean and the color is a bit weak. 

 

Neither of which is surprising.  It's the rock bottom price for a 2 carat+ H/SI2/xxx and you can expect it to be pushing the limits.  Personally I would read that 70% answer as a NO, and if non-eye clean is a deal killer for you, let it kill the deal on that one.

 

By the way, it costs your jeweler to bring these things in to show them to you, in addition to taking their time.  Don't be surprised if there's some sort of fee attached to bring things in if you don't end up buying them.   Be sure to ask. 

Edited by denverappraiser
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So the answer is its not 100% eye clean and the color is a bit weak. 

 

Neither of which is surprising.  It's the rock bottom price for a 2 carat+ H/SI2/xxx and you can expect it to be pushing the limits.  Personally I would read that 70% answer as a NO, and if non-eye clean is a deal killer for you, let it kill the deal on that one.

 

By the way, it costs your jeweler to bring these things in to show them to you, in addition to taking their time.  Don't be surprised if there's some sort of fee attached to bring things in if you don't end up buying them.   Be sure to ask. 

 

 

Do jewelers really charge their clients to "show" them diamonds? Shouldnt they do their homework and advise the customer? I.e. I wouldnt waste my money shipping the diamonds to my office (we dont drop ship) if the supplier says the diamond isnt eye clean, and would inform my client of such. 

 

Which jewelers are charging a "view" fee? I assume that it may be possible since retail jewelers usually dont have set prices, the price of the diamond or ring will go up with each cost they have to incur. But an outright fee? 

 

I think you'd agree, taking their time, is what they signed up for when they decided to be jewelers. 

Edited by Joshua Niamehr
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I know of no jewelers that charge a ‘view’ fee as you call it.  It’s the shipping that costs money and yes, FedEx charges money, even to jewelers.  The jeweler is welcome to absorb that in order to get a sales presentation if they want but no, I would not assume that would be the case simply because they call themselves a jeweler.  Ask.

 

One solution is to simply make the terms and conditions such that the customer has to buy blind.  That’s YOUR terms on this one for example.  You guarantee it’s the right stone but beyond that there’s no refund if they’re unhappy with it.  To be sure, I would never recommend a customer buy a diamond under such circumstances, and you probably wouldn’t either, but you’re the ones advertising it for sale. 

 

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R208-K8ZPXL?cid=diamondreview

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I've just never heard of a jeweler charging those fees, was just curious.

 

There some awesome companies like Ritani who let you view in person.

 

I think the biggest drawback with purchasing a diamond that's available online is that you'll pay sales tax in store in (if you're from out of state there are ways around that of course)

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Bear in mind that every state that has a sales tax also has a ‘use tax’ that has an identical rate and that applies to out-of-state purchases.  The big difference is that the customer pays it, not the merchant.  The rules vary from state to state but here’s what the State of New York has to say about it for example:
 

http://www.tax.ny.gov/pit/file/sales_and_use_tax_on_my_income_tax_return.htm

 

New York residents who buy things from out of state merchants who don’t collect sales tax are supposed to figure out how much is owed and include it as a line item on their annual state income tax return.  Deliberately failing to do so is a felony but that's not really where the issue is.  If they audit the return for some other reason, this is ALWAYS one of the areas they hunt for because compliance on this is so low.  It gets them taxes plus penalties and interest.  It’s similar in all but 5 states.  Just because you as a merchant aren't required to collect the tax doesn't mean that the customer doesn’t owe it.

Edited by denverappraiser
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