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Your Opinion About Small K Colour Diamonds


Johannes
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hey guys,

I have been reading a lot about diamonds on this forum and on other sites in the internet.

what i want to know is ur general opinion on small, k coloured round diamonds and if u think they are worth it.

 

but let me give u some details.

 

i have recently ( a few weeks ago ) started looking for a nice diamond/engagement ring, for my proposal which is planed for early dec. ( yes there is some time left :) ).

i have been reading A LOT and i think by now i aquired quiet a bit of knowledge about diamonds.

Be aware tho that im a first timer, and i havent ever physicly held a diamond in my hands.

only bought a few cz to get a feel for the actual size.

 

ok so what am i looking for:

 

first of all, very important to me is my budget, of 1 000€ total (including taxes shipping etc) / 1300$

 

taxes for my country are about 20% so based on listed prices that would make about 800€/1100$ for setting PLUS diamond.

 

as a setting i rly love those types.

170518_swirl_bezel_set_diamond_ring_angl

which i found 1 on zoara.com for example which costs about 350€/500$ in 14kt whitegold.

 

that would basicly leave me with 450€/600$ for the diamond alone.

 

ok thx for reading this far, and im sry that im writing so much^^

 

as for the stone, im basicly looking for a triple ex gia or ags ideal triple 0 with preferably around 0,4ct size. i have also been looking for good hca scores since thats the only tool for me thats available online. im also trying to get asat/ideal scope images and additional information about diamonds but im not sure if thats always possible.

Since the cut and symmetry seems to be the most important factor on diamonds beauty i dont wanna miss out on anything here.

also the 0.4ct is pretty important to me, since <0.35 seemed to small to me when i check back with the cz ( i know they differ in ct, i compared diameter)

but as we already know i got a pretty tight budget, so i need to go lower on clarity and colour.

clarity i only care about eye clean which would prolly leave me with si1 +- 1 grade, which should be fine !?

 

for example i have been looking at a stone like this:

 

http://pics.zoara.net/images/products/certificate/3592901__round_excellent_cut_k_vs2_certificate.jpg

 

as for the colour i looked at soooo many real life pictures of k colour diamonds set in rings and about 90% of the times i thought " hey this looks pretty damn white" 

in a few rare occations for example on james allan i saw a bit more yellowish but in general i feel like k should be fine ( as long as its not the brownish body colour)

 

but im still not quiet sure, so thats where u come into play :)

 

 

so here is my 2 questions: first im generally wondering if you think my reasoning about everything makes sense, as in cut clarity carat and colour .... basicly the "distribution" of the money i can spend between the setting and the diamonds stats.

 

and 2ndly: ur general opinion about k coloured diamonds around my size for whitegold settings.

 

so here to end it a quit summary about my personal priorities:

 

1. I rly dont want to go over my budget ( a few € more or less wont matter tho )

2. Setting should be this spiral type ( also im pretty much set on the 14kt whitegold ... also money reasons but tell me if u think differently)

3. I basicly want a ideal cut diamond as i stated in the beginning.

4. carat size should be somwhere between 0.35-0.45 preferably around 0.4

5. 100% eye clean

6. anything else ^^

 

 

last but not least, i wanna mention that the budget is pretty important to me, not because my girlfriend doesnt mean the world to me but because i dont rly earn that much yet: about 800€/month - taxes etc. but mainly because i think she wouldnt feel well running around wearing a ring thats that expensive.

 

 

thanks so much if u have kept reading until the end and thx for ur help in advance :)

 

best regards

 

johannes

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That's a long post so I’ll probably miss some things.

I personally wear a K colored diamond set in white gold as my wedding ring.  I guess that’s a vote for saying K is just fine.

Don’t forget shipping.  I don’t know the Zoara guys but with some the cost of international shipping can be pretty steep and a significant piece of your budget.

 

Don’t forget setting labor.  If you buy the diamond and mounting from different sources, it’s likely you’re going to have to pay a setter and, as with the shipping, it’s easy to spend $50-100 here. 

 

ASET images.  Most sellers don’t provide them.  A few do.  Again, I don’t know Zoara.  What you’re looking for is a fairly common stone but the ring may be a little trickier.  Frankly, I would probably start with the ring, then see what THAT vendor has in terms of diamonds rather than the reverse.

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hey, thx for this super quick response.

as i said im basicly set with the setting on zoara for 350€ .... i couldnt find those types on many other sites, and if i did they usually were much more expensive.

also i rly liked the customer support on zoara so far, so generally i am planing on buying there, if no1 talks me out of it for whatever reason.

since the price on diamonds doesnt seem to differ that much on the internet ( at least the ones on zoara do not seem overly expensive compared to others ) i will probably get the whole thing there.

they generally offer worldwide free shipment too, also free graving. so the calculation as i did it should fit pretty much and i should be left with around 450€/600$ for the stone.

 

what do u think about my reasoning with the stone?

u think the grades/budget i named would let me get a nice looking stone?

or would u change any grades about it? as in different size/clarity colour or whatever?

also what do u think about that particular stone that i posted? since thats probably about whats possible in my budget range.

 

thx in advance :)

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Your logic is fine.  I see no problem with Zoara, and I agree that you're wise to do the whole deal with one place.  My only real concern is that not everyone is thrilled with K's.  I am.  You may not be.  The solution is to go look at some real diamonds, not just photographs, and see what YOU think.

 

The alternative, and the way to remain in budget involves playing with clarity, size or budget.  Given that your budget is carved in stone (I agree with this too by the way), and you love the size, that means you're issue is trading clarity for color.  Zoara can probably get you just about anything you want but you need to tell them what you want.  Do it with your eyes.  Go shopping.  If you have an issue with the color you see, drop the clarity to SI1 or even SI2.  If not, go with the one you found.

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hey, thanks so much again im glad to hear that u agree with most i said.

 

i got 1 more general question:

I know there are all those tools like aset ideal scope etc. etc. etc. 

the problem is that its pretty hard if not sometimes impossible to achieve all those informations.

 

so if i would just take it easy and go for triple ex H&A with a good HCA and lets say table 52-57% depth 59-63% crown angle of say 33-35° and pavilion angle of 40.5-41°. would u say those stones are generally very nice looking?

(i know there are still differences in symmetrie / lightreturn for example that u can see in asat and ideal scope pictures.)

or are there actually stones with those measures and grades that look "ugly" and/or not sparkly etc. .... ?

 

thx again ure helping me a lot :)

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GIA excellent covers a fairly broad range of looks but I've never seen one that would be called ugly.   A fair number of people can't tell the difference, even when shown two stones side by side.

 

H&A claims are a little hard to translate.  GIA doesn't use the term at all.  This is coming from the dealer, and dealers don't all use the same standards.  Actually they very quite a bit.  Is it important?  For most people no.  For a few it is.  H&A is a symmetry thing. 

 

I don't find the HCA to be particularly useful for this purpose (deciding which 'excellent' stone is the 'most excellent').  Then again, it's free so it doesn't hurt to look things up.  

 

I suspect you would be hard pressed to find a GIA-x that's not in that range of parameters.  

 

Symmetry and polish are another slightly difficult issue.  GIA xxx is basically the benchmark.  That means x-vg-x or even x-vg-vg will sell at a discount.  Whether or not  that discount is worthwhile is a question for you.  For example if it may allow you a bump in clarity or color while remaining in budget.  Most people can't tell the difference. 

 

FWIW, mine's an AGS000 H&A.  I can tell the difference and yes, I paid extra to get it.  I even paid extra for a brand name cutter.  For my wife, on the other hand, we did not.  We bought an AGS stone for her as well, but it's from a Generic cutter and there is no claim about h&a.  We're both quite happy.

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mhm well i got to say i rly like the "hearts" and arrows look, as in the symmetry that shows the hearts and the arrows, so id rly like a stone that shows those. And thats basicly the meaning of the H&A brand right? its supposed to show those.

on zoara there are quiet a lot that are called H&A so i had at least planed to get one of em.

also the hca seems to differ quiet a lot from gia xxx standarts. only about 10% of the triple ex stones that i looked up on the hca had an actual score of excellent there as in <2.

as for symmetry and polish ... as i already said i rly like symmetry but to be perfeclty honest im not 100% sure about what polish is or what the differences in grading polish are.

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ok well so u wouldnt bother using the hca and just go for a triple ex H&A ?

the cut parameters i listed are pretty much the ones ags uses for AGS ideal 000 if im correct.

also crown angles of 33-35° with pavilion angles of 40.5 to 41° coupled with the table and depth i posted usualy are the ones getting good grades on hca. As far as i know hca score mostly decreases when pavilion gets any lower then 41° everything else doesnt influence it too too much or am i wrong?

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The HCA favors an inverse relationship between crown angle and pavilion angle rather than purely the ranges you’re listing.  High crown angles paired with low pavilion angles do ok, as do the reverse, but he hates what he calls ‘steep/deep’ stones.

 

 

 

The AGS system usess the same general concept but it uses all of the facets and then applies them in a ray trace model.  The AGS proportion system you’re talking about was abandoned in 2005.
 
 

Edited by denverappraiser
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well yeah hca also favours the shallow stones i forgot about that but thats why i picked the listed angles and stuff, because they do well on the hca AND are the basis for gia/ags cut grading system ... i thought just take the "best" of all and its the savest ways to get a nice diamond?^^

i know that hca isnt THE thing to look at but as u said its a free to use online tool and i gotta take what i can get if i cant get ahold of aset/idealscope and so on.

also i can only assume if which gia triple ex would also get ags ideal since they are only certified by 1 institute.

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well yeah hca also favours the shallow stones i forgot about that but thats why i picked the listed angles and stuff, because they do well on the hca AND are the basis for gia/ags cut grading system ... i thought just take the "best" of all and its the savest ways to get a nice diamond?^^

No it isn't. It's a perfect recipe for getting confused, though.
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1) Go out and look at things. There is no point in telling you what I like, since it's my preference, not yours.

 

2) Lacking that, as Neil said, there are no GIA X that look bad, but they do look different. AGS000 are more consistent and all look very good. Finer than that, requires more information; in my view, going with the HCA or ranges of parameters is useless. The HCA reflects Garry's preferences, not yours, and unless you know what particular parameter sets correspond to in terms of looks, you can't decide what you prefer.

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mhm yeah i guess u guys are right about looking at diamonds in real life.

The thing is that i cant just order any on the internet to look at them so id have to go to a loca jewelery store.

The thing is that i feel pretty bad "abusing" them without having any intention of buying from them since im 99% sure they are much mroe expensive then the internet.

Shouldnt i feel bad and just go there and ask em out anyway?

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1) How do you know they are more expensive if you don't check them out? You are right on average, but quite a few "internet" guys are local shops also advertising online.

 

2) Ask them about matching or getting closer to internet advertised prices. You may be surprised.

 

3) They may sell you something else another time. They will never have the opportunity to start a relationship if you only look at internet sites.

 

Now, that is not an excuse to take hours and hours from someone - but giving you a basic look at what they have in your budget and/or getting an idea of what K vs. I vs. M look like seems to be perfectly reasonable.

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Yes the jeweler is going to try and sell you something. They might even succeed. Fine, you're predisposed to buy somewhere else. So? I don't know a single merchant who isn't interested in the opportunity to make a pitch to a real live customer who is on the brink of buying, even if the odds of a sale aren't all that good. Don't lie to them, don't make them incur costs (like shipping in stones for you to look at), and mind your manners but no, I don't think you should feel the least bit bad to talk to them.

You're worried about wasting their time? Why? You're wasting MY time. Why is that better? Mind you, I'm not complaining. I'm happy to help and how I spend my time is my own decision, not yours. I do this because it constitutes good advertising for me but there's basically zero chance that YOU will become a client. I've offered free advice and you accepted. That's entirely reasonable for you and entirely at my discretion. We both win. It's the same at the store. They PAID to put that store there, they advertise to get you in, and they hire sales people to talk to you. They're standing around polishing the cases waiting for your to arrive.  They WANT you to show up. Yeah, they would be happier if everyone who walked in the door bought a big diamond every time they came, but that's not how it works.

Edited by denverappraiser
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