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Is This Egl Stone Worth The Price?


zmh786
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Hi guys,
 

I am about to purchase this stone:

 

1.2ct

F

VS2
Excellent cut

Excellent polish and symmetry

No Fluoresence

8 hearts and 8 arrows
Excellent ideal cut

European EGL cert (only downside I guess)

Out of interest - how much would you pay for this stone?

I am a bit worried as its a lot of money for me before I take the plunge and pay for it!

Many Thanks

Tom



 


 

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The problem is not that EGL is a downside, it means you don't know most of that other stuff that you're calling facts.  You're relying on a source that you yourself are calling unreliable.  In particular, clarity, color, cut, fluorescence and hearts&arrows are all suspect.   That doesn't leave much that you DO know.  

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How much would I pay for this stone as a retail buyer? $300 without seeing it. After seeing it, anywhere between $4.5k and $8k - or zero if I don't like it.

 

The EGL report is not a "downside"; it basically means you have no information on colour, clarity and cut (and relatively unreliable information about treatment).

 

Heh. Cross posted with Neil, as usual. And as almost usual, we come up with different ways of saying the same thing.

Edited by davidelevi
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Unfortunately not - at least from a pricing point of view. I'd expect a VS2 to be clean, but there are plenty of SI and even a few I1 that are. However, their "fair" prices will be different by a factor of 2 or more...

 

The other issue is that a photo is not the stone; even allowing for the best and most honest intentions on the part of whoever took the photo, it's not conclusive evidence of anything:

 

This is not a splendidly clear stone (though it's still worth quite a bit because of the colour), but at least it has no big boogers. Right?

 

r3447h.jpg

 

Think again:

 

post-11046-0-79779800-1410272914_thumb.jpg

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Ah right, well I can get a refund - paying around 7000$ for it, moral of the story is to go with GIA? How about if the stone looks good compared to other 'worse GIA' stones and looks good to the naked untrained eye? I just feel its a good deal if it looks good to me, I could be very wrong though.

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Looking good to you is a necessary but not sufficient condition for a "good deal". The other part is whether it's fairly priced, and on that - as noted above - we all know very little.

 

To take things to an extreme: a 1.01 D/FL/VG and a 0.99 E/VVS2/VG, both GIA graded, could be one three times the price of the other, yet be totally indistinguishable - by an expert with a loupe and a gauge - once set.

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More certainty for sure. More value... very likely. Put it this way: there is a reason why this stone has an EGL report, and the reason is NOT the cost of a GIA report: the cost of a GIA report for a 1.20 carat D-Z diamond is $105, plus shipping, plus cost-of-capital tied for 6 weeks* say it's $500; EGL is not free and although they are faster, they aren't immediate - say they cost $300. The cheapest GIA 1.2 F/VS2/EX cut/No fluoro advertised for sale by commercially aggressive vendors here:

 

http://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds/?sortOrder=price&sortDesc=0&fShape=Rnd&fCaratLo=1.20&fCaratHi=1.25&fColorLo=F&fColorHi=F&fClarityLo=VS2&fClarityHi=VS2&fCutLo=exc&fCutHi=exc&fDepthLo=50.0&fDepthHi=80.0&fTableLo=40.0&fTableHi=80.0&fSymLo=&fSymHi=poor&fPolLo=&fPolHi=poor&fCulLo=&fCulHi=vlarge&fFlrLo=none&fFlrHi=faint&fPriceLo=0&fPriceHi=1000000&fLabGIA=1&adv=1

 

is a shade less than $9500. Why would a vendor leave over $2000 on the table if the only difference is the lab report?

 

BTW - this is not a reason to discard the EGL stone; it's a reason to be cautious and verify what the seller claims. You can ask him/her to submit the stone to GIA (if he is right, you pay him $500 extra; if he/EGL are wrong, they keep the stone and the bill - $100 to 100 buttons they turn the offer down), you can ask a qualified expert to provide you with an opinion, or you can ask the vendor to provide GIA-graded stones to compare to if you trust yourself and your grading skills.

 

* Fees and turnaround times are both publicly available on the GIA site: http://www.gia.edu/gem-lab-service/diamond-grading then click on the "Fee Schedule" button and http://www.gia.edu/gem-lab-return-dates

Edited by davidelevi
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EGL grading is more lenient on color compared to GIA; anywhere from 1- 5 grades down. So this EGL "F" color possibly could grade out an I or J color with GIA. We're finding that EGL clarity grades are closer to that of GIA; anywhere from 1-2 grades lower.

 

EGL graded diamonds sell at significantly lower prices compared to GIA, and that is a tradeoff that many consumers for a variety of reasons are comfortable in making.

 

This 1.20 carat, F/VS-2 diamond may be a beauty,  but quickly disabuse yourself of the notion that you can pay EGL money for GIA grading; it doesn't exist. What you can and should do is compare apples to apples, i.e., EGL to EGL in your price range. It's time and work but can wind up being rewarding for you in finding a very nice face up diamond that is white, bright, and eye clean.

Edited by barry
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Barry,

 

I am not certain I completely agree with your apples to apples comparison above.  Most consumers are not able to differentiate between EGL New York or Israel or International so they would be very hard pressed to effectively compare stones with EGL papers, based on the reports alone.  I find that most of our customers, once they are made aware of the serious discrepancies in the grading, prefer to switch to GIA or AGS graded stones.  They are more comfortable with the notion of not being sold a bill of goods, and like knowing what they are buying.\

 

For that matter, if you take the GIA equivalent of EGL graded diamonds you will find that the prices are generally fairly comparable.  Using Barry's downgrades above, how close is this FVS2 to a GIA I/J SI2?

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Hi guys

 

Just wanted a price and sanity check for the following stone:

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=6167270511&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

 

Im being valued £5000 = $8,200 for this with a platinum setting - do you guys think its worth it?

Ive seen the stone and it is eye clean.
 

Please let me know experts



 

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The easiest way to compare is to look at the Diamond Finder - link at the top of the page:

 

http://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds

 

or a pre-set up search with stones similar to yours:

 

http://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds/?sortOrder=price&sortDesc=1&fShape=Rnd&fCaratLo=1.00&fCaratHi=1.05&fColorLo=H&fColorHi=H&fClarityLo=SI1&fClarityHi=SI1&fCutLo=vgood&fCutHi=vgood&fDepthLo=50.0&fDepthHi=80.0&fTableLo=40.0&fTableHi=80.0&fSymLo=&fSymHi=poor&fPolLo=&fPolHi=poor&fCulLo=&fCulHi=vlarge&fFlrLo=&fFlrHi=vstrong&fPriceLo=0&fPriceHi=1000000

 

Which comes up with prices in a large range of $8000 to $4700 depending on the visibility of the inclusion(s) and how "very good" is the "Very Good" cut (they aren't all the same, and the one you have is not a particularly attractive "very good").

 

To those two causes of uncertainty, you have to add the third one which is the setting. The plainest of plain platinum solitaires will still set you off about $350 + setting fees, but equally you can get a platinum solitaire that costs 10 times as much. Take the setting out of the equation and add it back in later and you may get a better idea of how prices compare, but any serious evaluation requires to see both the stone and the ring. All we can say with this info is "it's in the ballpark".

 

BTW - since you are comparing UK high street retail (I assume) to US internet prices, bear in mind that:

 

1. There is 20% of VAT in the UK price; there is no VAT in the US prices, but you'll need to pay it when you import (plus 2.5% duty if you import a finished ring, rather than a loose stone).

2. High street prices are higher than internet prices.

3. Shipping costs aren't always included (though many of the advertisers on the diamond finder will ship to the UK for "free").

Edited by davidelevi
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