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Deciding Between These Diamonds Please Guide Me =)


jevan
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Hi there I am new to the forum and have been reading the past posts people have made.

 

I would like to thank all the people who help the everyday consumer like me learn about diamonds and what is best to pick for the money they are using as these things are not cheap! haha.

 

 

So now its my turn and i would like some of you opinions as to what to buy. I am looking for a Diamond to set on an engagement ring and there are a few problems. Although i am new to this stuff and only starting to research about ideal proportions etc I have found some Round Brilliant diamonds that i am considering.

 

With each diamond i have been looking at on Blue Nile I have been comparing it to the chart on this website stating the ideal ranges for a round brilliant diamond:

 

http://www.uniteddiamonds.com/info_pages/diamond_education/diamond-education-round-depth.html

 

I do not know if this is a good indicator or not though. But any way i am looking at these diamonds and would like your opinion as what i should go for.

 

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/1149751531.pdf?params=cHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzgwMCs0MjUrMDIyJmxpbms9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5ibHVlbmlsZS5jb20lMkZhdSUyRl9MRDAzMzk4NDI0JnNrdT1MRDAzMzk4NDI0JmxhYj1naWEmY3VycmVuY3k9QVVEJg%3D%3D

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/231350005.pdf?params=cHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzgwMCs0MjUrMDIyJmxpbms9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5ibHVlbmlsZS5jb20lMkZhdSUyRl9MRDAzMzk4NDI0JnNrdT1MRDAzMzk4NDI0JmxhYj1nY2FsJmN1cnJlbmN5PUFVRCY%3D

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/5166363496.pdf?params=cHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzgwMCs0MjUrMDIyJmxpbms9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5ibHVlbmlsZS5jb20lMkZhdSUyRl9MRDA0MDU5MTA1JnNrdT1MRDA0MDU5MTA1JmxhYj1naWEmY3VycmVuY3k9QVVEJg%3D%3D

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/240290001.pdf?params=cHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzgwMCs0MjUrMDIyJmxpbms9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5ibHVlbmlsZS5jb20lMkZhdSUyRl9MRDA0MDU5MTA1JnNrdT1MRDA0MDU5MTA1JmxhYj1nY2FsJmN1cnJlbmN5PUFVRCY%3D

 

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/7162718282.pdf?params=cHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzgwMCs0MjUrMDIyJmxpbms9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5ibHVlbmlsZS5jb20lMkZhdSUyRl9MRDA0MDYwNDIyJnNrdT1MRDA0MDYwNDIyJmxhYj1naWEmY3VycmVuY3k9QVVEJg%3D%3D

 

With this stone should i be worried about the could being visible? 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/1162184794.pdf?params=cHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzgwMCs0MjUrMDIyJmxpbms9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5ibHVlbmlsZS5jb20lMkZhdSUyRl9MRDA0NTU2MDc5JnNrdT1MRDA0NTU2MDc5JmxhYj1naWEmY3VycmVuY3k9QVVEJg%3D%3D

 

Im sorry if 4 is too many and the rules say top three? each colour represents one stone just a different report if there's another link in the same colour.

 

Some general information includes, i am trying to go a 7mm diamond if i can, the bigger the better but i still want a higher quality diamond. I am looking at the colourless range D,E,F and VS1 and above. It will be set in white gold/platinum and the reason for heading in this direction is I initially started thinking about the 10K mark but as my partner hasn't got the smallest hands, (same as me roughly) if i got a smaller diamond it would not look good on her hand in our opinion....so the budget slowly rose to 20-25k which to me is almost going to kill me haha but ill survive. I wish i could afford something bigger but it is what it is. 

 

I have been to a few jewellers here in Sydney so i have only had a brief encounter with diamonds but i have seen a G colour next to an E and i have seen Si. Which also contribute to my above choice of Diamond characteristics. So that is another bit of information about my experience so far. =)

 

Also i always hear Davidelei talk about having a higher crown? what range should I be looking for in regards to this? may i ask what is the consequence of this? do any of my selections above fall into this category? If not is there an example. I basically want it to SPARKLEEE =)

 

Yet again I thank all of you for your wisdom in advance.

 

Thanks

Edited by jevan
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With each diamond i have been looking at on Blue Nile I have been comparing it to the chart on this website stating the ideal ranges for a round brilliant diamond:

 

http://www.uniteddiamonds.com/info_pages/diamond_education/diamond-education-round-depth.html

 

I do not know if this is a good indicator or not though.

No it isn't. These parameters interact with each other, and some (like table width) are largely a matter of personal taste. You are much better off in my opinion to rely on a GIA or AGS cut grade first (which you have), but to go further requires you to understand a little about how diamonds with different proportions look (within GIA EX). Do you prefer a wide table or a narrower one; taller vs. smaller crown (see below); balance of fire vs. brightness; strength and extent of symmetry in pattern (for which the report is no use; you need a reflector image or observation).

 

Im sorry if 4 is too many and the rules say top three? each colour represents one stone just a different report if there's another link in the same colour.

There are no rules, but the willingness of people (me included) to look at lists of stones decreases exponentially with the length of the list. ;)

 

My quick notes for the 4 diamonds:

 

Green: 1.46 D/VS1 - you would be paying a premium for D which you will never see once set. On the other hand, it's offset by this being the only stone below 1.50 - which if your size target is 7 mm you don't need anyway (1.30 is fine). On paper, it's the one I would prefer as far as cut goes.

 

Yellow: 1.51 F/VS1 - everything is fine; slightly larger table means slightly lower crown, which is why it comes (close) second in my personal preferences. You are trading off colour with size, but you may be even better off (financially, and assuming 7 mm is OK) by going with an F/1.3x

 

Red: 1.57 F/VVS1 - here the premium is on clarity, but again not in any visible way. The crown is a bit too steep, and not offset by a shallower pavilion (compared to the 2 above).

 

Blue: 1.74 F/VS1 - don't like the cut with a steep(ish) pavilion and a relatively flatter crown. On the other hand, it's the largest of the four by quite a bit, and it's the only one that will be visually and memorably larger than the others (meaning not in a side-by-side comparison).

 

One element that's missing to come up with a final "paper" ranking is price...

 

Incidentally, all 4 have medium blue fluorescence - which is perfectly fine, and I assume deliberate. It will have no effect on looks (other than under high UV illumination), but it does carry a 5-10% discount. The world is funny that way.

 

With this stone should i be worried about the [inclusions?] could being visible?

No. Just like in any other correctly graded VS1. In point of fact, I'm not even sure why you are singling this one out; I'd be more worried with "yellow" since the inclusion is right under the table, but then again I'm not since it is a VS1.

 

Also i always hear Davidele[v]i talk about having a higher crown? what range should I be looking for in regards to this? may i ask what is the consequence of this? do any of my selections above fall into this category? If not is there an example. I basically want it to SPARKLEEE =)

I would say that 15.5% and above is "higher crown", so from that point of view Green and Red both qualify - however neither has the small table (55% or below) I would like in my "perfect" diamond.

 

The key consequence of a higher crown (and of a correspondingly smaller table, if angles remain constant) is that you get more fire (refracted, "coloured" light) and less brightness (overall light return) than with a lower crown/larger table combination; in addition, the diamond may be slightly smaller in diameter, since there is greater weight tied up in the crown. Bear in mind that this is a personal preference, and others - possibly including you - will have the opposite wish, i.e. increase brightness to the expense of fire. I keep recommending this GIA article to everybody, so here it comes again: http://diamondcut.gia.edu/pdf/cut_fall2004.pdf

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Thanks so much for the reply. 

 

This made things alot more confusing and alot more interesting.

 

 

I am excited to read this article and im sure will report back with a ton on questions =) 

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/1149751531.pdf?params=cHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzgwMCs0MjUrMDIyJmxpbms9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5ibHVlbmlsZS5jb20lMkZhdSUyRl9MRDAzMzk4NDI0JnNrdT1MRDAzMzk4NDI0JmxhYj1naWEmY3VycmVuY3k9QVVEJg%3D%3D

 

Also out on interest can you please tell me what the 80% means on the lower part of the pavilion? what would be the ideal range as ive seen some with 75%? and does this proportion have a great affect on the diamonds light returning properties? 

 

And with the 55% on the bezel, star facet and upper half facet of the diamond? what does this mean visually? how would it affect the diamonds performance? what would it mean if it was only 50%? is there a general range i should look for?

 

thank you. =)

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The number near the pavilion is the lower girdle length as a % of the total pavilion length (projected on the girdle plane), and the number near the crown is the star facet length as a % of crown width (also projected). As far as ranges go, these are both taken into account by a GIA (or AGS) cut grade, so don't worry too much about "suitability" unless you start getting into lower cut grades.

 

In terms of visual effect, lower girdles are the easiest to see without any tools other than a loupe (and even with the naked eye). Modern cuts have long lower girdles, giving an effect of long, thin facets in the pavilion; the photo below is graded as "80%" and demonstrates well the look:

 

r4952-blue-diamond-d.jpg

 

old cuts have a much chunkier look, with broader and shorter facets - the one below is somewhere around 50% (my estimate):

 

r4961-old-eauropean-diamond.jpg

 

Star length is more difficult to pin down, but it causes differences in the way the periphery of the diamond looks like and reflects light; however, I have not seen diamonds where the variations are such that they cause "problems" (unless there are other, greater problems with the rest of the stone).

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Hi i have looked at the article although it is confusing and hard to understand for the average consumer what i gather is that it discusses what people, whether it be experts or consumers in general, deem to be important in choosing or looking at diamonds. 

 

It also talks about various aspect that affect the output that each diamond gives which includes proportions and the general lighting and environment it is being viewed in. is this mainly the aim of the article?

 

But this article does not really state what proportions are ideal and what are the results or various proportions on the facets in a diamond? however all i all a good read. 

 

I am trying to find bigger diamonds now in the 1.7 carat range but on the blue nile website what would the difference be between ideal cut and signature ideal cut? would there be any visually noticeable difference?

 

I have had one sitting with a jewller and seen the lower quality diamonds (Si and G-h colour and one D) and plan to have another in about 2 weeks to hopefully view more diamonds and compare them (compare d,e,f). anything you guys recommend i ask them?

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It also talks about various aspect that affect the output that each diamond gives which includes proportions and the general lighting and environment it is being viewed in. is this mainly the aim of the article?

 

But this article does not really state what proportions are ideal and what are the results or various proportions on the facets in a diamond? however all i all a good read.

The whole point of the article is that there is NOT A SINGLE SET OF PROPORTIONS that corresponds to visually appealing results. Not least because

 

1. You can get (largely) the same face-up appearance/balance with different sets of proportions

 

2. People's preferences for the 4 visual factors GIA has identified (brightness, fire, scintillation and contrast) vary, with different people preferring different combinations.

 

I am trying to find bigger diamonds now in the 1.7 carat range but on the blue nile website what would the difference be between ideal cut and signature ideal cut? would there be any visually noticeable difference?

The difference is largely a marketing one. You get more information (in my opinion of dubious value) on "signature ideal" stones, but that doesn't automatically mean they are cut better.

 

I have had one sitting with a jewller and seen the lower quality diamonds (Si and G-h colour and one D) and plan to have another in about 2 weeks to hopefully view more diamonds and compare them (compare d,e,f). anything you guys recommend i ask them?

Ask them to be able to see the diamonds in various lighting environments: spotlights, diffused light, natural diffused and direct light, darker and lighter rooms... Edited by davidelevi
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Thank you for the clarification on the article and about signature ideal and ideal.

 

I have found another set of diamonds narrowed down from 20, to 10, to 7, down to 4  haha

 

what do you guys think/suggest about these, they are in sort of the same budget and similar quality i hope? not sure why i can get a little bit bigger for my price compared to last time? i did downgrade a bit in terms of previously the table of the diamond was quite clean. now i may have a cloud or crystal in there? would these be visible to the naked eye if inspecting closely without a loop? (although i know you can never tell until you actually view it in real life, im just asking based on your experience and past viewings)

 

http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-cert-viewer?cert_pid=LD04372245&cert_num=1

 

http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-cert-viewer?cert_pid=LD01825548&cert_num=1

 

http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-cert-viewer?cert_pid=LD04541626&cert_num=1

 

http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-cert-viewer?cert_pid=LD04402453&cert_num=1

 

Thank you =))

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