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Ja Princess Cut Ags Certified


bigalexc
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Hello All... Complete newb here. However I've done a great deal of research and have come across this diamond and I am very interested in it. Before doing so I am hoping for some feedback from this community, like most people. I've posted a copy of the AGS cert below. James Allen has this priced at $5330. So, 2 questions. What is the community opinion of JA? And what is the opinion of this AGS princess cut diamond at this price?

 

For additional info a local jeweler has this ring, see 2nd attachment. Setting is from Gabriel & Co. The center stone is a 1.07, SI1, G/H color, non certified diamond for $5623. To me it seems like a no brainer to go for the AGS certified stone which also happens to be cheaper.

 

Any feedback is much appreciated. I hope I've provided enough details for the community to provide detailed feedback.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

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James Allen is a good retailer. The stone is nice. The price is fine. The only question - which you can ask JA - is whether the crystal(s) in the centre are visible with the naked eye. It is very rare in a VS2, but it does happen. This particular stone is priced at the bottom of similarly graded stones, so there may be a reason...

 

The comparison against the local retail offering does not stack up, however, since from your description it seems that the setting is included in the price, and this could easily be worth over $1000 retail. Does it make it a better deal? Not to me, since I don't know this dealer and I have no reason to trust their grading, and I really don't like that setting, but perhaps you do.

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davidelevi,

 

Thank you for your reply! The price I quoted above "The center stone is a 1.07, SI1, G/H color, non certified diamond for $5623." is for the stone only. The setting and matching band is priced at $2376. I do like the setting and band so I plan on moving forward with that I am just trying to qualify the center stone and if it is worth sourcing my own as opposed to buying the stone that is already set in it...

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Denverappraiser,

 

Absolutely! Thank you for getting back with me btw!

 

I've done a bunch of research and as I understand it AGS is one of the top 2 ceritfying agencies (AGS/GIA). This is why I am considering this stone over the the preset stone in this Gabriel & Co. setting. However, I am not familar with the nuances of the individual characteristics of diamonds. I was hoping if I attached the AGS cert I would be able to get some additional feedback on the true quality of this diamond. I know the picture of the complete ring I attached is hard to make out in great detail. Of course the jeweler is adamant that his stone is equal to or greater than the one I've found online. To their defense they are a locally owned, independent jeweler that has been around for 30+ years and has consistently been named as of the of the area's best as far as community awards are concerned.

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I was hoping if I attached the AGS cert I would be able to get some additional feedback on the true quality of this diamond.

Sorry - I have been too dismissive above, perhaps, but when I said the stone is nice, I really meant it. You don't find too many AGS-graded 000 stones, but when you do they are heads and shoulders above the rest as far as cut goes.
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I love supporting local businesses.  I’m even ok to pay more.  There’s definitely a value-add for shopping with a trusted local jeweler.
That said, ‘comparable’ is a tricky problem.  AGS is the only lab that has a credible cut grade for princesses and it’s EXTREMELY difficult to get that ‘ideal’ cut grade and it doesn’t just happen.  The cutters need to be deliberately aiming for it.  For example, there are 51,000 princess cuts in the database here.  Fewer than 1% are AGS-ideals.

It’s up to you to decide if that’s what you want but it commands a premium above and beyond the premium for the higher clarity and color that you’re also looking at. An AGS-0 princess will generally cost more than an otherwise similar GIA graded stone with identical weight/clarity/color.  A GIA/G/VS2 will generally cost more than a GIA/H/SI1 of the same weight.  Undocumented stones are cheaper than the same stone with GIA pedigree and the difference is MORE than just the lab fees.  It has to do with reliability and risk.  If H/SI1 turns out to really mean I/SI2, we’re talking about an easy 20% difference.  FWIW, the GIA lab fee on a 1.07 is $105. 


One of the things that you need to decide is the grading reliability of your jeweler.  I don’t know the first thing about them, but it makes a big difference.  Spend a few minutes playing with the database connected to the ‘diamond finder’ utility at the top of the page.  Do a dozen searches where you tweak the grades and the labs and see what that does to the asking prices.

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Denverappraiser,

 

Once again, Thank You for you your follow up! At this point I think the obvious choice is to go with the diamond I've found on JA. At the end of the day it is a certifed diamond and that alone is worth something, although in this case it is actually cheaper than the uncertified diamond! Go figure!

 

Moving on, like most people the radiance and brillance of the diamond matter most to me! Which is why I've zeroed in on this diamond. Besides it being an "ideal" cut it is at the top end of what I was looking for in terms of color and clarity... I guess like most people here I am looking for some type of assurnace from seasoned professionals, like yourself, that I am getting a good value for my $ as well as making a good choice in the diamond that I select. I guess the last bit of hinderence that I have comes down to the fact that there are similar diamonds, that aren't "ideal cut", that are a bit more expensive than the stone I've found. Why would this be?

 

Your feedback has been most helpful!

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A whole host of reason, starting from when the rough for this particular diamond was bought (and at what price), to the fact that the crystals under the table may be visible.

 

FWIW, I can't find the stone on the JA website... so check with them it actually IS available and at that price.

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I don't know; usually in this situation the stone shows up as "not available", but maybe JA have changed the logic of their search engine.

 

The bunch of crystals in the middle can be easily seen in the magnified video and still photo; I don't know if they would be visible to you without magnification, but it may well be one reason for the diamond being relatively cheaper than others...

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davidelevi,

 

Yes, I to have picked up on that after your comments from above. I like this site and the 40x magnification they offer of their diamonds. I think I will stick with this shape and search for another stone of similar color and clarity that appears more radiant and "alive" in their photos. Feel free to throw me some suggestions if you find any!

 

Again... Thanks for all of the insight!

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davidelevi,

 

What about this particualr stone;

 

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.07-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-176481

 

This stone is graded by GIA, not AGS as the other one was, but is the same in terms of color and clarity. From the close up picture this this appears to be a sharper stone, at least to my untrained eye. What say you?

 

Thanks in advance!

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It has a different, more splintery/small spark (vs. broader flash) appearance. Which is not surprising, seeing it has 5 tiers of pavilion mains vs. the first stone's 3. It's also (I think, but without a reflector image it's hard to say) slightly less contrasted but a bit less bright overall.

 

I prefer the slightly less "busy" appearance of 3 tier stones, but it's a matter of individual preference. (And actually, when it comes to preferences, I also prefer significantly smaller tables than in either of the two diamonds above, as in this one: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2959564.htm)

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Hello Again...

 

Quick update on my search to find the right diamond! I went back to my local jeweler today and advised them that I intended to buy my own stone that was certified for piece of mind. At that point they indicated they would be ahppy to have it appraised locally and I agreed. Why not, right? Anyway the appraiser that they use is Tampa Gemological Laboratory. Does anyone have any info on this company regarding the quality of thier appraisals?

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When you say "happy to have it appraised locally", what is it? Their diamond? Their ring with your diamond set into it? Your diamond loose?

 

As to the specific lab/appraiser, it's the first time I hear of them - this means nothing one way or the other. However, two important points here:

 

1) An appraisal is not a substitute for a lab report. Or at least, it isn't unless you absolutely trust the appraiser's grading skills; since I assume you don't know them more than I do... I don't see how you can.

 

2) The purpose of an appraisal is to provide you with an independent assessment of what you just bought. The fact of having an appraiser being recommended (or even paid for) by the seller automatically reduces the independence of the appraiser.

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Very good points indeed. As far as the appraisal is concered it is for the center stone that is in this setting. I've done my own research and this business has been in the Tampa Bay area for 30+ years. I understand and agree with the fact that there could be a conflict of interest given the fact that the jeweler recommended this idependent appraiser. However I also doubt they would sacrifice their integrity or business name based on the appraisal of a single stone from a local jeweler... I will report back when the results are recevied.

 

Thanks as always!

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post-134418-0-66771300-1407524550_thumb.jpg

 

All,

 

Here is a quick update... I've attached the report I recevied from Tampa Gemological Lab. I've also attached the AGS cert for the daimond I've found on JA. Can someone please take a look at these and break them down for me, please? To be as thourough as possible here is some additional info... If I buy the complete ring from my local jeweler, with the stone that was independently appraised from Tampa Gem Lab the total cost with tax is $8345. If I were to buy the loose stone from JA and have it set in the same setting the total cost is $7962. So, it would actuallybe cheaper to go with the AGS certified diamond, which to my untrained, newb eyes appears to be of better quality.

 

What say you?

 

post-134418-0-49624500-1407524623_thumb.jpg

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Tampa Gemological is the folks that YOU hired to be your eyes and ears for this deal.  They've seen the stone, we haven't.   If you don't understand their report, ring 'em up and ask them to explain.  They said nothing at all about the cutting beyond the raw dimensions and the good/good symmetry and polish (which are not particularly good grades by the way).  

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Actually... I told my local jeweler that I wanted to go with a certified stone for my own piece of mind. He then offered up to have it appraised locally and this was the company choosen. Comparing this appraisal to the AGS certification AND the price difference between the two I believe the wise choice is the loose stone. However, like most inexperienced buyers on this forum, was reaching out to the experts for assurance...

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