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Need Help Making A Decision On Diamond


supaflyjae
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Looking to purchase this diamond below certified via EGL USA. As you can see the cut grade is listed as N/A but the jeweler says it's "very good" and I should not worry about having a "brilliant" stone. Looking to the experts here to give me their input. Price is around $8500.

 

WEIGHT 1.21 CT

COLOR G

CLARITY VS2

MEASUREMENTS 6.84 x 6.81 x 4.25 mm

DEPTH 62.3%

TABLE 63%

CROWN 14.4%

PAVILION 45%

CROWN ANGLE 37.2

PAVILION ANGLE 42.1

GIRDLE thin to medium

POLISH excellent

SYMMETRY good

FLUORESCENCE none

CUTLET very small

CUT GRADE n/a

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Let's put it this way - the Facetware cut estimator provided by GIA does not agree with your jeweler. It gives an estimated cut grade of "Good", which is not good at all in my book: it places the diamond in the bottom 10% for cut quality.

 

The cut estimator is available free of charge here: https://www.gia.edu/facetware/

 

Add to this the unreliability in EGL grading (although EGL USA is more reliable than other EGL labs) and the fact that you can get a GIA-graded 1.2x G/VS2 Excellent cut, symmetry and polish for about the same amount (this one for example: http://www.diamondre...E=DiamondReview), I think the verdict is pretty clear: leave alone!

 

To be honest, I would very much consider whether you want to keep talking to that dealer. He is not being honest on at least three accounts: 1) telling you that the diamond is very well cut when it is evident it is not; 2) not disclosing what EGL grades mean (and even as EGL grades go, a "good" symmetry is not a good sign in a modern round brilliant); 3) telling you that you don't need a "brilliant stone" - assuming he means a well cut one.

 

Actually, the last point may well be true, but then it is also true that you don't need a diamond. No-one does.

Edited by davidelevi
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Hi everyone,

 

So the dealer came back with these two GIA options and I'm wondering if their initial asking price is good. Both stones have slight white inclusions away from the center which I verified through a loupe.

 

1.03ct H VS1 XXX (HCA 1.2) $8750

1.36ct H VS2 XXX (HCA 1.8) $11250

Not to digress from the subject but I'm intrigued that you've got a storefront jeweler who's promoting diamonds using the HCA. Is this part of their promotion or is it something you looked up? May I ask who the store is?

 

Back on track.

 

It's easy enough to look for comparable items and compare prices. GIA/xxx's are a pretty competitive marketplace. Start with the 'diamond finder' at the top of the page to look for ads.

 

Those two stones are quite different from each other and neither one is particularly close to the specs you listed in your first post. What are the specs you gave that resulted in these two options? Is this the same dealer?

Edited by denverappraiser
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The HCA is not relevant for choosing diamonds, only for discarding them (and even then, there are far better tools, a GIA cut grade being one of them). And I would expect any correctly graded VS1 (and 99.999% of VS2) to have inclusions which are invisible to the naked eye, and difficult to locate with a loupe.

 

Apart from that, the prices continue being considerably higher than what is available online, to the tune of several hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Whether the ability to see the diamonds prior to securing them is worth that much to you, only you can say.

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Hi everyone,

 

So the dealer came back with these two GIA options and I'm wondering if their initial asking price is good. Both stones have slight white inclusions away from the center which I verified through a loupe.

 

1.03ct H VS1 XXX (HCA 1.2) $8750

1.36ct H VS2 XXX (HCA 1.8) $11250

Not to digress from the subject but I'm intrigued that you've got a storefront jeweler who's promoting diamonds using the HCA. Is this part of their promotion or is it something you looked up? May I ask who the store is?

 

Back on track.

 

It's easy enough to look for comparable items and compare prices. GIA/xxx's are a pretty competitive marketplace. Start with the 'diamond finder' at the top of the page to look for ads.

 

Those two stones are quite different from each other and neither one is particularly close to the specs you listed in your first post. What are the specs you gave that resulted in these two options? Is this the same dealer?

 

I looked up the HCA myself online once I saw the stones in person. I basically asked the dealer to find me GIA 1.00ct to 1.20ct stones with XXX and good table/depth proportions. He showed me these two stones and I liked what I saw. Then I took the certificate numbers and looked up the HCA rating and used the AGA/NAJA cut class diamond grading screen tool and saw both are 1A.

 

I know its difficult to compare prices since no two diamonds are alike. However, based on what is given to me I'd like to know if the dealer is asking too much or if the prices are around what's being seen in the marketplace. I know that you'll be able to find lower prices online (for pretty much almost anything) so I'm not asking if these prices are the lowest around. Just wondering if it's in the ballpark or if they're asking way too much.

 

thanks guys appreciate the input.

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Put it this way: I would NOT pay 20% for the privilege of seeing round stones. A few hundreds, maybe yes. A couple of thousands - no.

 

Other than that, HCA and AGA (not NAJA - they are two distinct and different things) classes are irrelevant in purchasing decisions, particularly when you can see the diamonds.

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A quick search of 1.35-1.39 H/VS2 GIA produces 28 stones topping out at $11077. It’s not a one click action to search for xxx only on this site but the boundary seems to be at about $9500. That means you’ve got a premium of $1000+ on that stone for the ‘value add’ that’s coming from your dealer. I’m not as opposed to that as Davide, I think there’s real value that comes from shopping with local stores, but you’ve not given us anything to go on other than that they’ve got the stone in hand and they’re presumably prepared to make immediate delivery. What led you to this particular store? Are you happy with them? Are there other nearby stores that will work on a similar margin? Maybe. It depends on where you are and how aggressive the dealers are. 10-20% above the internet is fairly typical as a starting point but you can usually beat them down a bit unless we’re talking about one of the big corporate chains. Around here (Denver USA), you can use the internet ads to beat up the local stores and although they don’t usually price match without a considerable fight, they come closer than that. Now that you've got a fairly narrow set of specs, a visit to a few other nearby stores may get you a firm bid or two. The most flexible stores tend to be the single or few location sorts of places where you can actually talk to the people in charge. Big chains and department stores far less so. Big box stores not at all.

 

 

I’m not going to take the time to search the other stone but I suspect it’s similar in terms of numbers. You can do it yourself.

 

AGA and table/depth have nothing to do with it by the way. The GIAx encompasses both of those and they do NOT effectively subdivide the GIA 'excellent' category to decide which stones are more excellent than which. The HCA does get used this way but, in my opinion, as well as that of most pros (including the author of the HCA) it's not useful for that purpose.

Edited by denverappraiser
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Neil - I think we are in agreement as to the value of local vs. online. There may be different thresholds on what we are prepared to pay, and perhaps in our case contacts and other factors come into it as well.

 

My point is that when there are online dealers that provide a lot of information and help to consumers at price X, paying X+20% simply because a dealer is local but adds no value beyond that feels like a bit of a rip-off to me.

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AGA (not NAJA - they are two distinct and different things)

AGA and David Atlas developed their grading scale quite a few years ago and have generously allowed NAJA and their members to use it. It's correct that AGA and NAJA are completely different organizations but the cut grading charts that bear their names are identical.

Edited by denverappraiser
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Neil - I think we are in agreement as to the value of local vs. online. There may be different thresholds on what we are prepared to pay, and perhaps in our case contacts and other factors come into it as well.

 

My point is that when there are online dealers that provide a lot of information and help to consumers at price X, paying X+20% simply because a dealer is local but adds no value beyond that feels like a bit of a rip-off to me.

It continues to be true that local specialty jewelry stores represent the vast majority of the bridal diamond business although other categories are rising, especially Internet stores like BlueNile and DiamondsByLauren and big box outfits like Costco. Some people obviously find value in it and it's not just because they don't know any better. We know nothing at all about what value is being added here. I agree that some stores don't add much but others do a lot for their money and yes, they earn their markup. The same applies online. Some dealers are a lot more useful than others.

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