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Natj87

Man Made Diamonds Help!!

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Hi,

 

I really could use some help in finding a company that sells a good quality man made diamond. I've always wanted a conflict free diamond (plus the price for my partner and I is much more affordable) however everytime we are about to make a purchase I find a review stating my ring will be a CZ despite the site advising otherwise. Now I am worried and really confused as to which site to buy from.

I'm from Australia and the market here for what I am after is extremely limited. I do not want moissanite as personally it looks a little fake!

Can anyone help???

 

It would be much appreciated :)

 

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It's been a while since I wrote a detailed answer to this question but I think most of these people are still in the game and I haven't heard of too many new ones. This would be a good place to start.

 

http://www.diamondreview.com/forum/topic/4339-where-to-buy-synthetic-diamonds/


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Best of luck.

 

I too like synthetic diamonds and it amazes me how hard it is to buy one. The sharks are still out there, and they're still making outlandish claims about what they can do with nanocoatings on top of CZ. Don't believe it.

 

The first clue will be the price. White synthetic diamonds are not significantly cheaper than their natural counterparts. Fancy colors are, but that's largely because natural fancy colors can get into psycho-expensive zone. This is actually the big reason that the people who make synthetics prefer fancy colors. If it costs $100/ct, it's not a diamond.

 

The second clue is in the size. 2 Carats is HUGE for the growers and typically they're under 0.50. If they have a bunch of 'identical' big stones, they aren't diamonds.

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I went through the sites you'd given me and you're right it is quite difficult - most of those sites were for fancy stones and I'm after a white stone. Before today I was looking to purchase from sona diamond jewelery or Mia Donna but now don't think I should.

 

I don't think I'm going to have much luck finding what I'm after in a synthetic diamond.

 

Thanks for your help though :)

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It's worthwhile calling the manufacturers (d.nea, gemesis) and asking them. Very often the production isn't all on the sales site, and/or they can manufacture stones to order, though as Neil said don't expect them to be very large (current limit for white is somewhere around a 1.00 carat cut stone) or significantly cheaper than a natural stone.

 

Sona and Mia Donna are both coated CZ, so whatever they are it is not diamond.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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I went through the sites you'd given me and you're right it is quite difficult - most of those sites were for fancy stones and I'm after a white stone. Before today I was looking to purchase from sona diamond jewelery or Mia Donna but now don't think I should.

 

I don't think I'm going to have much luck finding what I'm after in a synthetic diamond.

 

Thanks for your help though :)

What are you looking for?

 

I'm going to guess that what you're after is a big beautiful white diamond for cheap because some magazine article or website told you they could be manufacturered for next to nothing and that the diamond universe has changed. You're right, you're not going to find that. Sorry.

 

If your budget or psyche doesn't support diamonds, and I definitely understand, there are several alternatives to consider. CZ's look a lot like diamonds and cost almost nothing. I'm sure you've looked into that but try it again. For the most part, CZ's are pretty nice and paying 50x as much for one doesn't make them better. Superb ones can be had for about $10-40 at most neighborhood jewelry stores. The labor to set usually costs more than the stones. They do have some durability issues and will need to be replaced occasionally but are otherwise a perfectly acceptable diamond alternative. There are lots of other gemstones like sapphires that are historically used in engagement rings that can be LOTS cheaper. $100 goes a long way with most other sorts of gems. You can spend big bucks there too but it's less mandatory. Small diamonds are fine. It's a symbolic thing and it simply does not need to be huge and it doesn't need to be VVS. Something under 0.25cts in a natural diamond can be had for a few hundred dollars and you most definitely can make a lovely and meaningful ring from one. People do it all the time. No stone at all even works. Gold and silver bands are readilly available and actually have been the tradition for considerably longer than diamonds.

Edited by denverappraiser
  • Like 1

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I know this is Diamond Review, so I'll swim against the current a bit. If conflict diamonds are a deal killer for you then diamonds are not for you, In the end, it can be nearly impossible to know exactly where any diamonds came from and fairly or not, the entire industry still has a long way to go to clean up it's act.

 

Also, staying away from CZs can be easy as well if you are open to alternative gemstone ideas. Why not consider stones like White Sapphire or White Topaz? Both inexpensive when compared to diamonds, natural or synthetic, and IMO fat better choices than CZ. Besides, when someone asks what stone that is, how many people can say White Sapphire?

 

A third alternative is Moissanite. White moissanites are someone what rare, but very lightly tinted stones are somewhat easy to find and also avoid the issue of conflict diamonds.


Steve

Gear Head - Designer - Bench Jeweler - Artist - Web Developer

AnimalCharms.Net

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@Natj87,

 

We hope you gave us a look from Neil's list. Our create-your-own process is fairly easy to use, but we realize it can also be overwhelming with so many choices. You can always call our reps at 866-799-8885 if you'd like help finding exactly what you're looking for, or guidance through our inventory. Let us know if we can be of service.


All diamonds from Gemesis are lab-created, guaranteeing a socially and ecologically responsible point of origin.

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What's your point in resurrecting a year+ old thread?  You are entirely welcome to start your own... :)

 

Apart from that, I agree with you that most claims made by sellers of so-called "lab diamonds" are bogus. However, the primary reason that they are bogus is that they aren't selling diamonds; they are selling something else, usually CZ. As this dealer states (in a rather hidden and deceptive way, but state nevertheless), what they sell is a diamond simulant, not a synthetic diamond. They then confuse the matter further by calling their product "Lab Diamond", which probably the FTC could object to, if you had several years and several millions to pursue the case through the courts.

 

It seems to me that the dispute between you and the dealer has two main issues to deal with:

 

1. What did they say they were selling? If they say they were selling diamonds and you have been given a CZ - coated or otherwise - this is fraud. Pure and simple. However they seem to be cleverly steering clear of that... even though their site will never win any prize for honest and straightforward marketing.

 

2. I cannot find any reference on their site to "this cannot be scratched". A (declared) Mohs hardness of 9.7 means nothing:

 

a. Diamond files exist.

b. Diamond (stones) scratch other diamonds, never mind materials that are considerably less hard

c. Softer materials can damage harder ones - they just wear faster (it's possible to scratch or chip a diamond with a hardened steel file; the file will be worse off in the long run, but that doesn't remove the damage to the diamond).

(d. Diamonds are quite fragile - hardness and fragility are two very different things. Marshmallow is not fragile, but no-one has ever called it hard.)

 

Quite how the item got scratched in the first place, though, is very much to the point. Did it reach you in a scratched condition, or did you do something to it?

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Hi, bumping this old thread!  Thanks for the info!

 

 

It's still incredibly hard to find man made diamonds on-line.  It's almost 2016, what's the deal?

 

 

Anyways, none of these sites have anything listed that I'm looking for (1.4-1.8ct RB, excellent cut, F+, eye-clean), but I see that they invite inventory requests.

 

My questions are:

 

Will they be able to provide certifications I can view?  I want to see the inclusions and dimensions.

 

Will they give professional eye-clean opinions?

 

I'm also interested in an oval, can they tell me if a stone is free of bow-ties?

 

Do any of them use tools to determine light performance?

 

 

Many more questions, but lets see if I can get these answered.  If not, no worries, that list of retailers/manufacturers was very helpful.  Again, thanks.

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Your problem here is the oval.  Reasonable or not, people like rounds and princesses so that's what they make.  That's a little different from the problem miners face.  They get whatever God put there and although there are some decisions to be made by the cutters, some stones are just well suited to be marquise, hearts or whatever and others are not.  Growers get to pick, and what they pick is what they think will sell the best for them.  For consumers, popular is not a synonym for better, but for manufacturers it definitely is. 

Labs are a problem too.  The GIA report on MMDs doesn't include cutting information, and AGS won't grade them at all.  That mostly leaves you with IGI and EGL, which have useless cut grading scales among other problems, and dealer supplied information.  An inclusion map and dimensions should be no problem.  Do the dealers use tools like ASET, Idealscopes and so on?  Some of them.  Ask.  These tools mostly aren't very expensive or difficult to use but they're surprisingly unusual in the marketplace.  I don't know any of the manufacturers that do this directly for their websites but if they're selling through a dealer, the dealer can do whatever they want.  This is part of the value coming from your jeweler. 

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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There are two main challenges with your request.  The first being oval.  Most lab diamonds grow in a relatively uniform rough shape that works best for round and square cuts.  The elongated cuts like oval, pear and marquise do not fit as well, so are not generally available in the same quantities and sizes as round and square cuts.  

 

The other issue is color.  For D-F color, it is still somewhat uncommon for them to be available larger than about 1.25ct or so, though the average color is improving every year.

 

Your other questions about certificates, clarity, etc., can be easily answered by any reputable jeweler when a diamond that interests you is available.


Eric E. Franklin

CEO, D.NEA

http://d.neadiamonds.com

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Thanks, y'all are great.

 

I live in a rural place, so being able to purchase over the internet is a huge boon.  That's why I'm so concerned with all the extra analysis, I don't want to buy totally blind.

 

There are 4 B&M retailers I found through the chatham link about an hour drive from me.  If I can actually lay my eyes on the stones, then I won't be as worried about all the extra information.

 

But then the question becomes... can I buy a lab from a B&M, with their overhead premiums + tax, cheaper than a natural from an online source?

 

No oval and F+ color, no big deal, I can compromise... if the price is right.

 

Thanks for answering my questions, I appreciate it.

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On a colourless/near colourless the price advantage vs. natural is relatively small, especially on a relatively large stone. Where synthetic diamonds really have an advantage on price is on coloured diamonds (esp. blues).

 

On the other hand, while I understand you not wanting to buy blind, it may help if you consider that most online vendors (of natural OR synthetic stones) offer lengthy penalty-free return periods. What you are "buying" is just the shipping until you decide to keep the stone.

 

 Incidentally, there is no tax advantage to buying online unless you live in a no-sales tax state: all states with a sales tax apply a use tax to goods supplied from out of state. The difference is that you have a choice of declaring the purchase or evading the tax...

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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As it turns out, d.nea, (EEFranklin, who posted above works there but it's tacky for him to post links to his own site) has a 1.58/H/VVS2/oval listed on their site for $6193..

http://d.neadiamonds.com/lab-created-diamonds/WO11

 

Looking for mined comps using the diamond finder utility at the top of the page, I find 8 stones ranging from $9,400 to $11,000.00.

http://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds/?sortOrder=carat&sortDesc=0&fShape=Oval&fCaratLo=1.55&fCaratHi=1.65&fColorLo=H&fColorHi=H&fClarityLo=VVS2&fClarityHi=VVS2&fCutLo=&fCutHi=poor&fDepthLo=50.0&fDepthHi=80.0&fTableLo=40.0&fTableHi=80.0&fSymLo=&fSymHi=poor&fPolLo=&fPolHi=poor&fCulLo=&fCulHi=vlarge&fFlrLo=&fFlrHi=vstrong&fPriceLo=0&fPriceHi=1000000

 

There are a few variables here, not the least of which is the lab chosen, but if it's the right stone for you, that's priced like a I/VS2 so you've got some room to play with.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7556782-1.64-carat-Oval-diamond-I-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=7556782&utm_source=diamondreview.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=diamondreview.com

 

What your local jewelers offer is, of course, up to them, but they should be happy to talk to you on the phone before you drive up there.  Most jewelers can order in stones special for an appointment if you give them a bit of notice.  Since what you want is a scosh out of the mainstream, it wouldn't be at all unusual that they don't have it in stock and will need to do this anyway.   Driving an hour with this kind of budget on the table wouldn't phase me but I guess it's up to you.

 

Most of the lab manufacturers, including the guys above, have a pretty generous return policy.  You can order in a stone, look at it, and take it back if you don't like it.  You can even take it with you to your appointment at the jeweler so you can compare if you like.  At worst you're out some shipping although beware of a 'restocking' fee on returns if there's a credit card involved. 
 

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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@davidelevi

Oh yeah, we do have a use tax for out of state purchases.  Never think about that, but I guess with a large luxury purchase that's something I may not be able to avoid.

 

I'll look into those colored diamonds, maybe a really light pink or blue.  I'm not usually a stone kind of girl, most of my pieces are plain gold and .925.

 

@denverappraiser

thanks for the links, y'all are some classy guys.  And thanks for the info, too.  I appreciate  it all.

 

I assume I'd have to pay return shipping and insurance if I did not like the stone?

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I assume I'd have to pay return shipping and insurance if I did not like the stone?

I assume so.  I'm not all that familiar with Eric's terms and conditions but I'm sure he would be happy to talk to you about the details if you ask.  Most reputable dealers (and ALL dealers I would consider doing business with) offer something like a 10 or 30 day money back guarantee.  The devil is in the details.  Always.  Who covers shipping both ways?  10 days FROM when and TO when?  This can be very important, especially if you're international.  What are the acceptable reasons for a return?  Does a return result in an exchange, credit, or refund?  How long do they have to pay and how will the refund be dispersed?  What about restocking fees, credit card fees and so on?  Is it different for mounted or unmounted stones and does it apply to the entire inventory or only select items?   Again, I'm not picking on d.nea, I don't know their rules, but it's important to read and understand the terms conditions on these things before you click that 'buy it now' button.  There ARE rules. The very same questions apply to local purchases by the way.  You should have the right to show it to your friends, your mother, your appraiser, your bride, or even your astrologer and return it in new condition for a refund within some reasonable amount of time if you're unhappy.  

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Thanks denverappraiser, great advice!!

 

 

A couple of posters above mentioned that lab-made diamonds aren't being made in D-F colors.

Takara Lab currently has some D-color, lab-made diamonds up to 2.4ct.

Here's the link:

 

https://betterthandiamond.com/takara-diamond-search.php

 

Is something fishy going on here?

Edited by virtualfire

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Nothing particularly fishy:

 

1. In 3 years (start of this thread to now) technology has changed.

 

2. As posted above, the choices for grading synthetics are somewhat limited, and the reliability of the main labs for synthetics is not exactly stellar - what they call "F", GIA may well call "I"


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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IGI-Antwerp isn't GIA but they aren't EGL-Israel either. They have their issues, but a D from them is likely a D or E from GIA if they were to grade it.  Similarly, a VVS2 may be on the boundary with VS1 but it's not likely to be an SI.

 

Here's the stone he's talking about by the way.

 

http://www.igiworldwide.com/verify.php?r=LG_M3A47709

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I did some poking around, it seems those D-Fs were released to the public just last month.

Kismet?

I've never been one to rush out and buy the newest technology, paying for the privileged to test product.

 

Speaking of grading differences, that 2.4ct has Ideal and Excellent listed in different places for its cut.  That table seems a bit large.  No inclusion chart.  It's listed at 1/3 the price of a diamond with same paper quality, but since IGI may be a little less strict, their touted price may be a little off.

 

 

p.s. I'm female.  Shopping for a "husband proposed to me with a necklace" ring as an anniversary present.  Married in April over a decade ago.

Edited by virtualfire

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As mentioned above, I'm not thrilled with IGI's cut grading scale and they use the word 'ideal' rather loosely but, that said, I don't see anything on the report that indicates a problem to me.  The various parameters interrelate so there is no best answer but 59.5% table is just fine.  Surely there IS an inclusion plot and it's just a matter of getting it.  Ask the dealer.  What you have above is the online lookup for a printed document and, as far as I know,IGI Antwerp always includes a plot on the document.  

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Yes absolutely. Technology is changing every now and then. There is no standard set to grade synthetics diamond. Most of the popular labs don't grade. So i believe you should not be bothered about and just go with your local jeweler.


Gemologist (Graduate)

www.b2cjewels.com

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