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Pricing! Help!


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Hi guys,


New to the forum - looks like a great place to be!


Looking out for a ring - I've been getting quotes and just had a quote for a loose diamond to be put on a mount.


Spec is: 0.75ct - VS2 - G/H Colour.


All for £1300 - Good deal right?


Anything particular thigns i should look out for?


There's also another ring with a bit of damage in it but i'm not too sure about it - it's 1.52ct - VVS1 - H Colour. It's double the size of the above though! It looks good and you need to look through the bottom of the diamond to see the little chip in the diamond. This one will cost over £2500


Thoughts please? I'm stuck!

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Let's put it this way: if you can see the chip with the naked eye (or even find it easily with a loupe) through the bottom of the diamond, that diamond is NOT a VVS1 by any definition other than the salesman's - who can call a sugar cube "flawless and transparent" if he wishes to. So, off goes that one - and frankly off goes the dealer, as far as I'm concerned: this is plain dishonesty and exploiting your lack of knowledge.


Apart from that, there's a host of issues: first and foremost, small details in diamonds count for a lot when it comes to establishing prices. This means that the grading on colour, clarity and cut should be done by a reliable lab, otherwise you are flying blind as to what the diamond really is. I know for sure that the diamond is not graded by a reliable lab, because in the near-colourless range reliable labs do not grade colour with split grades (G/H).


It may be a good price, it may even be a bargain (though I very much doubt it is either), but the only way of knowing that for sure is to get an independent expert that you trust to re-grade it for you...


ETA: what shape is the diamond? Round? Princess? Something else?

Edited by davidelevi
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A ‘certificate’ is a grading report including a variety of technical information about the stone usually including the weight, various dimensions, type of material, clarity, color etc. They vary a lot depending on who issues them and what they’ve been asked to report about. Usefulness also varies tremendously ranging from essential information to completely useless. Anyone who wants to can call themselves a gem lab or an appraiser, anyone who wants to can issue a document they call a certificate, and they are welcome to have whatever opinions they have. There’s nothing ‘certified’ about it. The reason people are interested in them is that they are interested in the opinion of certain 3rd parties, and those opinions normally appear on documents that get called certificates or appraisals. It’s not the document, it’s the opinion that counts, and an opinion in isolation is completely meaningless unless you know WHO gave that opinion and under what circumstances. Without this it's at best useless and quite possibly deceptive.


Yes, the usual reason people get lab grading is for sales purposes, usually it's the seller but occasionally buyers will order them as well.


I second the notion that any dealer who is selling a broken stone and calling it a VVS1 without major disclaimers (like calling it a potential VVS1) is a fraud. There IS a market for broken stones and it may indeed be lovely but he is starting out the presentation with an absolutely false premise and he surely knows this. The market for broken and damaged diamonds is decidedly complicated. Get professional assistance if you seriously want to get involved.

Edited by denverappraiser
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Vet your advisors first. '4 out of 5 jewelry store workers surveyed' is NOT a good methodology. Feel free to show it to your astrologer or your mother if that's whose opinion you value but the issue is the merits of the advisor BEFORE you decide on the merits of their opinion. The burden is on THEM to convince you that you should care what they think and the default answer is no. I'm a bit biased here, I make a living doing exactly this, but I would suggest you choose a well trained, well equipped, and independent, gemologist/appraiser who is working for you, not the seller and who has data supplied from a reliable and independent lab.


Do not buy from a dealer without a return policy. If you can't show it to your own expert before you put out some money (likely for security reasons), it is absolutely essential that you have the opportunity to do this immediately thereafter and that you have the right to undo the deal if you are unhappy for ANY reason. No restocking fees, no store credits and no restrictions on what is a legitimate complaint. If you don't love it after thinking about it for a while, it goes back. It's fair that they ask you to get on with it and put a certain amount of time pressure on you but this and the fact that returns need to be in the same condition as when you got it should be the only input the jeweler gets.

Edited by denverappraiser
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At the very least you should get a grading report from a reputable lab. Bear in mind that the argument "this diamond costs more because it's graded by this lab (usually GIA or AGS)" is complete taurine excrement. The price of a grading report by GIA - who publishes its price schedule here: www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/fees_payment/lab_fees/Lab-Fee-Schedule-Diamond-US.pdf - is of the order of $100 for a diamond like the ones you are considering. The diamond costs more because it has "better" colour, or clarity, or cut, or is otherwise more desirable, not because it is graded by GIA or someone else. The lab report provides you as a consumer with a shortcut to assessing the reliability of the claims of the seller.

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