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StriderZ

Diamond Inclusions

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Thanks! You really have a great sense of humor. :lol:

 

BTW, I searched through diamond finder and found jamesallen.com. Has anyone had any experience with them, whether the price is competitive? Their website is pretty cool as it has the virtual loupe to see the stone. I am considering bluenile, brilliance.com and others in process of searching.

 

Again thanks!

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Another thing, I keep thinking that since feather is like a crack, is it true that having feather inclusions, eventhough just little bit is bad as it can break the stone?

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JA seems to gather consistently good reviews. Prices are competitive - use the Diamond Finder to compare, and you'll see that often the same stone is offered by more than one vendor, but they all cluster within a few % of each other!

 

Feathers in diamonds are usually quite stable. If they reach the edge of the stone ("open feathers") then some caution is needed, and the same is true if the feather is near a potential stress point/edge or on a thin point (e.g. corner). A feather buried deep in the stone may have been there for literally millions of years and never moved; if the stresses of cutting and setting haven't enlarged it, anything else short of a hammer that you may throw at the diamond is unlikely to be a problem.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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No ideas, sorry. The issue in any case is that even if the cut is fantastic, you may still be left with uncertainty around colour and clarity, and that can have very material effects on fair pricing... make sure that whoever they are using to grade the stones is reliable and trustworthy.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Hi All, I found this one that I like and also recommended that I would ask for your opinion to see whether it is good choice or not. The price is around $7,500K. Is it expensive? Thanks!

 

Inclusions: cloud, needle (tiny bit in the middle)

Carat: 1.08

Triple excellent for polish, cut and symmetry

I color VS2

Table 58%

Depth 62.4%

Measurement: 6.56 x 6.52

x 4.08 mm

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It's a reasonable price. However, I have to ask: there's about 20 stones that (plus or minus a VG instead of EX on polish and simmetry) fit this bill listed on the Diamond Finder. Why did you pick this one?


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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I picked this one cuz my instinct tells me so. J/K. :P

 

Well, i wanted a triple excellent. I also dont like feathers as I hate cracks although you mentioned that as long as it is buried deep inside the stone should be fine. This one has small clouds and needle. No inclusions noted from the bottom. Assuming the clouds is not darker color and it is eye clean which it should cuz it is VS2, then I will like this one. Also the table/length and width is pretty good. The girdle is med/slightly thick, not that bad. The price is actually $7.2K instead of $7.5K.

 

What do you think about my choice? Is this a good buy? I tried to attach the inclusions plot, but it did not allow me. the cloud 2 smalls one in the middle (as long as it is not dark color i dont think I'll mind) and few tiny needles on the side. that's all. compared to other stones that has so many inclusions are really bothering me. Thanks.

 

One thing that little bothering me (thou i am not sure if should be concern) is the report dated Sep 2010 from GIA. Should it be OK?

 

 

 

 

 

It's a reasonable price. However, I have to ask: there's about 20 stones that (plus or minus a VG instead of EX on polish and simmetry) fit this bill listed on the Diamond Finder. Why did you pick this one?

Edited by StriderZ

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I saw another one about $200 more expensive.

 

VS2 and I color

triple excellent.

1.14 carat

Measurement: 6.73 x 6.68 x 4.14 mm

table: 56%

depth: 61.7%

inclusions: smaller clouds than the one i saw, 1 needle from the bottom (vs none for the previous one i saw), 1 small crystal

 

Which one do you think is better deal assuming the inclusions is not dark color and both are eye clean? This one attracted me because bigger and more carat compared to previous one 1.08.

 

Please advise. Thanks!

 

 

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You pays your money, you takes your choice. The only difference is the weight, based on the information you provided. Pavillion and crown angles are more critical to the look of the diamond than table and depth, BTW.

 

REPEAT: YOU CANNOT JUDGE HOW INCLUSIONS WILL LOOK FROM A GIA PLOT. You are obsessing around entirely the wrong thing, I am afraid. Said in good cheer, and with no evil intent.

 

In any case, the percentage of VS2 with eye visible inclusions is minuscule, and even those will not be visually offensive: a small dark dot which will only be visible on close inspection - how many people do you plan to have closely inspecting your fiancée's ring?

 

In terms of size, here are two circles, one is 6.5 mm diameter, the other is 6.7 - sorry but Powerpoint (and to be honest a normal PC screen) cannot handle hundredths of mm. Can you see the difference? Which is which? - no rulers on screen allowed...

 

post-11046-0-82693500-1305774930_thumb.png

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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I did not use ruler btw :rolleyes: but red is bigger.

 

ok. why does the pavillion and crown angles are more critical to the look of the diamond than table and depth? a matter of reflection of the light for sparkle purposes?

 

the first stone:

crown 36 and pavillion 41.2

 

second stone:

crown 35 and pavillion 40.8

 

which one is better from this spec?

 

the ring is for me btw, i am the wife. :)

 

any comment on the date of the report or does not really matter?

Edited by StriderZ

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You are right; red is bigger. Now, test # 2:

 

post-11046-0-00579100-1305776529_thumb.png

 

A little harder, right? When the two objects aren't right next to each other and no longer perfectly aligned it's more difficult for the brain to compare... plus now they are the same colour, which gets rid of another perceptual issue (brighter colours will look larger).

 

The angles - and particularly the pavillion angle - are what determines the amount of light that gets reflected back to you and what gets "lost" through the stone or reflected to a place that you cannot see. There's a lot more to it than that, but a good primer is this article on Tolkowski's original 1919 paper that started the "scientific" approach to diamond cut that is prevalent today.

 

http://www.gia.edu/research-resources/cut-microsite-pdfs/marcel-tolkowsky.pdf

 

If you want to know more about how the GIA cut grading system works, here it is in all its glory (?!?) - the reference to AGS-0 cut proportions as a fixed set of proportions is now outdated.

 

http://www.gia.edu/diamondcut/pdf/cut_fall2004.pdf

 

Based on my personal preferences, I'd say go with the second diamond, but at the end of the day I haven't seen them, and I don't know your preferences.

 

Date of the report less than one year is perfectly OK; when you get the diamond appraised, point this out to the appraiser and ask him/her to check for damage (which he/she should do anyway).

 

Congratulations on getting a new diamond; my question still stands - how many people do you plan on letting inspect your diamond closely? (I mean with a loupe and off your hand) ;)


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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The right one is bigger. Thanks a lot for all this valuable knowledge. It really helps me a lot. I learned a lot from this diamondreview.com. I had no clue about this stone before. Now is much better thou struggling and confused lots of time. No congratulions yet as I have not yet got it, hopefully today :rolleyes: I want to be able to see inspect the diamond with a loupe myself so I know what's going on in there. and I usually will remember well where all these inclusions are. I have sharp eyes, memories, too detail and easily see imperfections. That's the problem. :D What is the basis of your personal preferences that trigger you to go with the second diamond instead of one? the crown and pavillion angles? I know we all haven't seen the inclusions yet. I'll make sure the vendors has a good return policy just in case. just like you said, we have to see it. <BR><BR>BTW, it is a great article. I compared the crown, pavillion, depth, table both % and angle and the second one closely match to the #1 in the proportion comparison chart.

Edited by StriderZ

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Is it true that some diamond dealer can pay "little more" to GIA or AGS so that GIA/AGS get a better grade?

 

Crown and pavillion - better match.

 

When you get it, please post photos!!!

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Is it true that some diamond dealer can pay "little more" to GIA or AGS so that GIA/AGS get a better grade?

In a word, no. There was a scandal involving a few stones at GIA a few years back but even then it was a problem involving a few VERY exotic and very expensive stones. They revaped the system, canned a bunch of employees including the lab director and the preisident and are moving on nicely. I think it's fair to say that a similar scandal is now highly unlikely. AGSL has never had even a hint of similar problems. Mind you people DO game the stytem, but its not as straightforward or as incideous as your question would suggest.

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I just went to pricescope.com and price for similar item is cheaper than what is in diamondfinder.com. is it really the case when you actually about to really purchase it?

 

Is B2Cjewels.com trusted? the price is very cheap thou for similar item.

Edited by StriderZ

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Pricescope is a direct competitor of DiamondReview and they are both quite similar in that they are nothing more or less than advertising venues. The prices of the goods are set by the individual sellers and they can charge whatever they wish. There are some dealers that advertise in both places, and some that prefer one over the other but I think there's no identifiable pattern of which attracts advertisers who are less expensive.

 

B2C is a reputable outfit and are a pure dropshipper. This means that they are selling goods that are being shipped by some third party. That's financially efficient and leads to good prices but it does have some difficulties if you have specific questions about a particular stone and occasionally there are issues about things being sold out from under you when neither you nor they know it. Whether or not they have exactly what you want depends on your requirements and their offerings at the time.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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thanks. what about eternitydiamonds.com? same as b2c jewels.com?

 

 

 

Pricescope is a direct competitor of DiamondReview and they are both quite similar in that they are nothing more or less than advertising venues. The prices of the goods are set by the individual sellers and they can charge whatever they wish. There are some dealers that advertise in both places, and some that prefer one over the other but I think there's no identifiable pattern of which attracts advertisers who are less expensive.

 

B2C is a reputable outfit and are a pure dropshipper. This means that they are selling goods that are being shipped by some third party. That's financially efficient and leads to good prices but it does have some difficulties if you have specific questions about a particular stone and occasionally there are issues about things being sold out from under you when neither you nor they know it. Whether or not they have exactly what you want depends on your requirements and their offerings at the time.

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Is it true that some diamond dealer can pay "little more" to GIA or AGS so that GIA/AGS get a better grade?

 

Um. Unlikely. And in the case of "commercial" stones (say below 5.00 ct) practically impossible. The volume of stones just requires standardised processes and lots of people; to impact this would require serious amounts of money that would not be paid back by the improved grades.

 

In addition, the damage to reputation if anything of the sort were to be uncovered would be devastating. When some GIA employees were found to "doctor" reports for large stones in 2005 this resulted in significant changes to internal procedures to prevent single individuals being in the position to award grades. Also, the volume of stones affected was very small (though the values were very significant).

 

http://www.diamonds.net/news/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=13569

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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thanks. what about eternitydiamonds.com? same as b2c jewels.com?

I'm not sure I understand your question? That's another large etailer and, as far as I can tell, they have a very similar business model. I don't think either one of them, or anyone else for that matter, is bribing GIA.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Neil - my apologies. As you were having a conversation and posting several times, I was still typing my answer to three posts back, so the flow is somehow difficult to follow. I believe the "bribe GIA" issue is closed... or at least I hope so! :D

 

I have now added the quoted post to which I was answering that has disrupted your flow on various retailers.

 

Speaking of which: StriderZ - I am not sure what your concern is. All the outlets you mention are large, solid companies. You are better off choosing the vendor before choosing the stone, given the ready availability of many similar diamonds to many vendors.

 

BTW - Be careful about concluding that the "similar" goods advertised for sale by vendor x are truly comparable to those advertised by vendor y unless they really are the same stone. Diamond pricing is based on lots of rather fine details that may make little difference in looks but a huge one in prices.

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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In regards to the ring setting, i noticed some vendor has lower price than others e.g. $375 compared to $630 for 18K gold 2.5 mm...does that mean that they have different quality? or it is just the profit margin.

Edited by StriderZ

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Other than the service and warranty, may it appear different between 2 ring setting (same 18K gold and same model e.g. comfort fit) due to the way they make it? I hope it will since the price is way more expensive compared to the other?

 

in terms of the prong setting, i prefer platinum but does it really make a difference between white gold vs. platinum prong setting? i heard platinum is stronger and most likely the diamond will not fall out the prong? is that true?

 

It could be either. And "quality" includes quality of service and warranty, BTW.

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