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TheICEMan

Costco Diamond

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What do you guys think about this engagement ring from Costco? The GIA and IGI reports are virtually identical as far as specs...

 

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11613029&whse=BC&Ne=5000011%204000000&eCat=BC|108|28447|55926&N=4041850%204294967099&Mo=25&pos=0&No=1&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price|0||P_SignDesc1〈=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10573-Cat28447&topnav=

 

Let me know if I can do better/worse, etc.

 

Thanks!

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Considering the reports are for the same diamond, I would certainly hope they'd be identical--with the exception of the fact that GIA does NOT give valuation of the diamond, just an EVALUATION of the diamond. As far as what IGI values the ring at --in what universe? Never trust these kind of "appraisals" as they're always way overinflated. Using the "Diamond Finder", the price of the diamond is somewhere in the high3-high 4k range. Toss in a setting, and you're just about right for asking price. Could you do better? Perhaps. It's good that you have Excellent Polish and Symmetry. They won't size the ring for you, so if you need a size 6 or a 7.5, you're going to wind up having to go to a jeweler ANYWAY to get that sized, so add in another cost involved in having your finished ring. And you have apparently no other options for a setting, should you want another one.

 

I'm certainly not poo-pooing it, it is a fair price for what it is and for what you're getting with it. Anyone on here who's been around here a while knows I'm a big fan of the G VS2 grade--it'll face-up white, be completely eye clean, and the diamond is well within the length-to-width ratio that you'd want for a well-cut Princess. Not over-paying for 'bells and whistles" so to speak. Just saying, though, go by what you'd find out about the value to buy the diamond, not what inflated appraisal that you're getting "such a great deal", because you're not. You are getting it for a reasonable and reasonably competitive price. But it should be a very pretty diamond and a very pretty ring.

 

Good luck and if you do get this ring, please be sure to come back and tell us about your customer service experience with Costco (you might be the first since I've been on here to ask about a diamond from there) and certainly come back and show the ring off to us! :)


Diamonds Graduate, Pearls Graduate, AJP GIA

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I'm actually a fairly big Costco fan. Everything they sell is of pretty good quality, well described, well priced for what you get, and backed with a superb warranty and return policy. I agree with the above that the IGI 'appraisal' is at best worth nothing, and is quite possibly damaging if you use it to bind an insurance policy but that's between you and the insurance company so it's a little hard to blame it on Costco. If I had to pick on them it would be because everything is generic. For a lot of shoppers, 'pretty good' isn't the standard being used and it's impossible to get any more data (from them). You can buy it, you can hire your own expert to tell you more or you can just be happy with what you get. If you have a problem, take it back. They'll give you as long as you want and they're very cooperative if/when you take things back. That's not such a bad approach and it works about as well with diamonds as it does with paper towels.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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What do you guys think about this engagement ring from Costco? The GIA and IGI reports are virtually identical as far as specs...

 

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11613029&whse=BC&Ne=5000011%204000000&eCat=BC|108|28447|55926&N=4041850%204294967099&Mo=25&pos=0&No=1&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price|0||P_SignDesc1〈=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10573-Cat28447&topnav=

 

Let me know if I can do better/worse, etc.

 

Thanks!

 

 

You might be able to do a little better on the cut quality, as you can get an AGS ideal princess cut in the same grade for that price.

Keep in mind that the IGI appraisal is a totally inflated price. I would not buy insurance based on that $11,000 appraisal value.

 

Here is a TV segment about the IGI inflated appraisals.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8661995/


Jan

For those that want to know the truth about diamonds, just ask.

 

dbof.com

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What do you guys think about this engagement ring from Costco? The GIA and IGI reports are virtually identical as far as specs...

 

http://www.costco.co...Cat28447=

 

Let me know if I can do better/worse, etc.

 

Thanks!

 

 

You might be able to do a little better on the cut quality, as you can get an AGS ideal princess cut in the same grade for that price.

Keep in mind that the IGI appraisal is a totally inflated price. I would not buy insurance based on that $11,000 appraisal value.

 

Here is a TV segment about the IGI inflated appraisals.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8661995/

 

I may be able to do better on the cut quality? Are you getting this from the 72%/74%, or from what specs?

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Not quite, Jan is getting it (or guessing it may be a more accurate term) from seeing thousands of diamonds with similar reports and proportions and having seen - and possibly having in stock - a number of stones of high quality (with an AGS cut grade to prove it) and slightly different proportions at a similar or better price.

 

Nothing inherently wrong with 72/74, but it does denote a princess with a pretty low crown and possibly a shade too deep. Not necessarily bad, but you can get better. Jan is confirming that "better" is available at the same price.

 

Bear in mind that none of us has seen the diamond; we are all guessing based on experience. Does that make it a good guess? Maybe. Does your taste match with ours (or that of the people at AGS that have developed the princess cut grading system)? Maybe.

 

Jan - my apologies for answering for you.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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What do you guys think about this engagement ring from Costco? The GIA and IGI reports are virtually identical as far as specs...

 

http://www.costco.co...Cat28447=

 

Let me know if I can do better/worse, etc.

 

Thanks!

 

 

You might be able to do a little better on the cut quality, as you can get an AGS ideal princess cut in the same grade for that price.

Keep in mind that the IGI appraisal is a totally inflated price. I would not buy insurance based on that $11,000 appraisal value.

 

Here is a TV segment about the IGI inflated appraisals.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8661995/

 

I may be able to do better on the cut quality? Are you getting this from the 72%/74%, or from what specs?

 

 

The AGS has an ideal cut princess cut diamond that and a lab report that is light performance based.

 

Here is an example of what one of those lab reports looks like.

 

post-10-0-25261800-1302015342_thumb.jpg


Jan

For those that want to know the truth about diamonds, just ask.

 

dbof.com

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Not quite, Jan is getting it (or guessing it may be a more accurate term) from seeing thousands of diamonds with similar reports and proportions and having seen - and possibly having in stock - a number of stones of high quality (with an AGS cut grade to prove it) and slightly different proportions at a similar or better price.

 

Nothing inherently wrong with 72/74, but it does denote a princess with a pretty low crown and possibly a shade too deep. Not necessarily bad, but you can get better. Jan is confirming that "better" is available at the same price.

 

Bear in mind that none of us has seen the diamond; we are all guessing based on experience. Does that make it a good guess? Maybe. Does your taste match with ours (or that of the people at AGS that have developed the princess cut grading system)? Maybe.

 

Jan - my apologies for answering for you.

 

 

No problem Dave. I enjoy your postings. :)


Jan

For those that want to know the truth about diamonds, just ask.

 

dbof.com

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Not quite, Jan is getting it (or guessing it may be a more accurate term) from seeing thousands of diamonds with similar reports and proportions and having seen - and possibly having in stock - a number of stones of high quality (with an AGS cut grade to prove it) and slightly different proportions at a similar or better price.

 

Nothing inherently wrong with 72/74, but it does denote a princess with a pretty low crown and possibly a shade too deep. Not necessarily bad, but you can get better. Jan is confirming that "better" is available at the same price.

 

Bear in mind that none of us has seen the diamond; we are all guessing based on experience. Does that make it a good guess? Maybe. Does your taste match with ours (or that of the people at AGS that have developed the princess cut grading system)? Maybe.

 

Jan - my apologies for answering for you.

 

 

No problem Dave. I enjoy your postings. :)

 

Dang...I'm confused.

 

Is it the Table/Depth numbers that are off, or is it the measurements!?

 

You say I can do better, but are you factoring in the platinum setting as well? I'm honestly confused...I wasn't planning on purchasing this ring, but I did want to verify if something with these specs is the way to go for a nice engagement ring. Again, by "nice" I mean good ring/value for a 5K +/- budget. I tend to see alot of "depending on what you like," which I'm sure aren't intended to be rude, but don't necessarily provide an adequate answer to those of us not in the know.

 

As always, thanks for the advice!

 

 

 

 

 

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The measurements "are" the table and depth. They are just expressed as % of the average length/width. And they are not "off" - they just suggest that the stone is not cut super well. Is it? We don't know. You have seen it.

 

The platinum setting is about $800/1000 retail, and I think an AGS "ideal cut" would be about $5500 for the diamond alone. Would I save something on the setting and use white gold to get a (considerably in my view) better cut stone for an extra $500/800? I would. Would you?

 

I think a lot of the "depends on what you like" is exactly that. Will the costco ring look nice and sparkly? Yes it will. Will it look like one of the liveliest, most fiery princess cuts you (or your lady) will ever see? Probably not.

 

Does it matter? It does to me.

 

If I buy a piece of modern jewellery, I want it to be the best of today, at least in the materials it employs, and ideally in its design too. For an engagement ring, design is usually a problem, since they tend to be fashioned very traditionally, so I would want the best possible cut on the stone. Then again, I'll never understand people that spend tens of thousands on their wedding. There's nothing wrong with it; I just don't value the ceremony (as opposed to the commitment) enough to justify the spending. Same goes for the additional $1000 on a diamond. In my eyes, it's justified; others would rather invite another 6 people to the party, or get an extra night in the Wedding Suite at their honeymoon hotel.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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The measurements "are" the table and depth. They are just expressed as % of the average length/width. And they are not "off" - they just suggest that the stone is not cut super well. Is it? We don't know. You have seen it.

 

The platinum setting is about $800/1000 retail, and I think an AGS "ideal cut" would be about $5500 for the diamond alone. Would I save something on the setting and use white gold to get a (considerably in my view) better cut stone for an extra $500/800? I would. Would you?

 

I think a lot of the "depends on what you like" is exactly that. Will the costco ring look nice and sparkly? Yes it will. Will it look like one of the liveliest, most fiery princess cuts you (or your lady) will ever see? Probably not.

 

Does it matter? It does to me.

 

If I buy a piece of modern jewellery, I want it to be the best of today, at least in the materials it employs, and ideally in its design too. For an engagement ring, design is usually a problem, since they tend to be fashioned very traditionally, so I would want the best possible cut on the stone. Then again, I'll never understand people that spend tens of thousands on their wedding. There's nothing wrong with it; I just don't value the ceremony (as opposed to the commitment) enough to justify the spending. Same goes for the additional $1000 on a diamond. In my eyes, it's justified; others would rather invite another 6 people to the party, or get an extra night in the Wedding Suite at their honeymoon hotel.

 

Here's my dilemma...I'm looking at an AGS Princess Cut chart which states/grades a Princess cut with a 60-72% Table and 64-75% Depth as a 1B Premium Cut. This particular ring's specs are 72% Table and 74% Depth.

 

So I can understand the big picture a li'l better, what seems to be the main issue here? The ring as a whole? It not being an AGS Ideal? What?

 

You, sir, may want the "best of today," but you may have a bigger budget than I. So, you, like me, are interested in getting the best bang for your buck, right?

 

How exactly do the measurements come into play...is there a preffered range that a Joe Blow like me should stick to?

 

Thanks for the help!

 

 

 

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Hmmm. Let me try to get some things in order.

 

1. The tables you are quoting are by AGA, not AGS - next to each other on the keyboard, but rather different. In any case, let's use the AGA charts for a moment: you are considering a stone which is at the borderline between 1B and 2A (or 2B) on both parameters. That tells me something, or at least leads me to think it's on the borderline between a good (but in any case not excellent) cut and a so-so one. This is what is setting Jan and me on alert.

 

2. There's a host of issues with the AGA charts, in this case the biggest is they don't capture what is the key to a princess cut (the pavillion angles - plural). Unfortunately, for a reason or another, those angles aren't printed on any report by the major labs. AGS uses those angles (and a lot of other information) to come up with an overall cut grade. It's the best unbiased indicator for you as a consumer of whether the stone is going to look nice or not (compared to what a panel of experts at AGS think is "nice"). The other reliable tool is an expert's eye - but of course you need to trust the expert, and any vendor recommending his/her stones may be easily accused of having a vested interest. The next best option is your eye. Which would be absolutely the best, since it reflects your taste ("it depends", yeah?), but it is easily hoodwinked because you are not experienced, you cannot see twenty diamonds together, and jewellers play tricks with lighting that would make a chunk cut out of a beer bottle look good.

 

3. Costco has a shedload of advantages, as Neil was pointing out above. Expertise in choosing diamonds for the fine details on cut is not one of them.

 

4. Budget. I understand; we are not talking of thousands but of a few hundreds, and my point about buying the best was about trying to get you to see that it really does depend on what you want. Here are ways in which you could stay within your budget and get more bang for your bucks - in my view, and increasing order of desirability:

 

a. Step down a little in colour and clarity. Go for an H/SI1 - it will still look very white, particularly if well cut; it is perfectly possible to find a completely eye-clean SI1. Save $1000 and put towards cut.

 

b. Get a setting in white gold. Save $500 or so. Put this towards a better cut diamond.

 

c. Go below 1.00 carats. Not much in size (0.1-0.2 mm - you cannot see it without getting the two stones unset next to each other), but getting something in the 0.9x range is going to save you more than a thousand.

 

For example:

 

http://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-diamond-ring?action=add&offer_id=3804&shape=&forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP#STYLE_STEP|3804

 

Ignore the crap Blue Nile cut grade. It's a joke. Look at the AGS report. And if you really want to save the $200 that are over the Costco price, there is a cheaper platinum setting on offer; it's just not as nice. BTW, this diamond faces up marginally larger than the Costco one. You won't see it, but you can say it looks larger than a full carat ;)

 

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=5F6863Y8&affiliate=06d43b62-5aab-4d17-a405-7518f29ba9ee&SE=DiamondReview

 

This one is 0.2 mm smaller than the Costco. You still won't see that difference. On the other hand, it's much better cut. And it leaves you $1400 for a setting, probably some cash in hand with a decent quality platinum solitaire.

 

These are the first two I found; there's a list which is hundreds of stones long using the diamond finder, plus what is on sites that don't advertise on it...

 

My suggestion would be for you to order a really well cut stone from a vendor that has a "no penalty return" for a minimum of 3 weeks. Then go to Costco and compare. If you like the Costco ring better, return the one you got, put down a deposit of $100 at Costco and when the refund comes through complete the purchase; you are $50 out of pocket for the return shipping. If you like the ring you already have in hand, thank Costco for their time and go to propose...


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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My brain is getting FRIED! LoL!

 

Everywhere I search I'm being told to stay closest to 72% on both Table and Depth! Now I'm being recommended a stone that's 66.09 Table/76.90 Depth!

 

Am I missing something!? Should I just cut her a check and have her pick the freaking thing out!?

 

S.O.S.!!!

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LOL! How terribly romantic! ;)

 

sorry...but that made me seriously giggle.


Diamonds Graduate, Pearls Graduate, AJP GIA

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My brain is getting FRIED! LoL!

 

Everywhere I search I'm being told to stay closest to 72% on both Table and Depth! Now I'm being recommended a stone that's 66.09 Table/76.90 Depth!

 

Am I missing something!? Should I just cut her a check and have her pick the freaking thing out!?

 

S.O.S.!!!

 

Yes you are missing something. Table and depth are not the best parameters on which to search. Period. Stop obsessing over them. They may provide flags and warnings, but there are things that clearly trump them, such as an AGS cut grade.

 

Secondly, I'd like to know where you are told "stay closest to 72%". The AGA charts that you referred to clearly point out that a higher crown that is attainable with a 72% table is desirable, thus requiring a smaller table. AGS gets there by looking at parameters (crown and pavillion angles) that are not written down on the report, but still point in the direction of relatively large depth and relatively small table.

 

Thirdly, the two stones I picked were EXAMPLES. I would still go with either one of those than the Costco stone, but if you think you are getting a better deal, go ahead. All I am suggesting is that you take a look at a truly well cut princess before you sign that cheque and give it to her. If you don't want to go through the fuss of ordering and returning, go to the nearest Jared's and look at their "Peerless" collection princess cuts - they are all AGS 0; make sure they are "Peerless", though, because Jared has plenty of other lines where the cut quality is rather questionable.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Total threadjack, but a friend of mine --lord only knows why she was looking--found that Costco currently is offering a 6.77ct D IF RB in Platinum for ... (are you holding your breath...?)

 

 

 

 

1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!

 

 

not surprisingly, the website notes that there is only one in stock. (DUH!) ;)

 

If anyone needs the address to ship it to me, I'll be happy to let you know... ;)


Diamonds Graduate, Pearls Graduate, AJP GIA

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It's possible. They list the cert # if you wanna waste the few min looking it up ;)


Diamonds Graduate, Pearls Graduate, AJP GIA

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My brain is getting FRIED! LoL!

 

Everywhere I search I'm being told to stay closest to 72% on both Table and Depth! Now I'm being recommended a stone that's 66.09 Table/76.90 Depth!

 

Am I missing something!? Should I just cut her a check and have her pick the freaking thing out!?

 

S.O.S.!!!

 

Yes you are missing something. Table and depth are not the best parameters on which to search. Period. Stop obsessing over them. They may provide flags and warnings, but there are things that clearly trump them, such as an AGS cut grade.

 

Secondly, I'd like to know where you are told "stay closest to 72%". The AGA charts that you referred to clearly point out that a higher crown that is attainable with a 72% table is desirable, thus requiring a smaller table. AGS gets there by looking at parameters (crown and pavillion angles) that are not written down on the report, but still point in the direction of relatively large depth and relatively small table.

 

Thirdly, the two stones I picked were EXAMPLES. I would still go with either one of those than the Costco stone, but if you think you are getting a better deal, go ahead. All I am suggesting is that you take a look at a truly well cut princess before you sign that cheque and give it to her. If you don't want to go through the fuss of ordering and returning, go to the nearest Jared's and look at their "Peerless" collection princess cuts - they are all AGS 0; make sure they are "Peerless", though, because Jared has plenty of other lines where the cut quality is rather questionable.

 

Based on your experience, and any other jeweler's experience who wishes to chime in, is there a common Table/Depth % which yields a diamond such as the AGS Ideal Cut diamond? Just curious...

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In short - nope. The most relevant measurements for the AGS cut grading system (and for any diamond's light return, in truth) are the pavillion angles. Given the overall geometry, they end up being related to table and depth in a rather variable way, particularly considering there are princess cuts with 3, 4 or 5 pavillion steps.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Sarin (www.sarin.com) manufactures equipment used to measure diamonds. Most of the labs, including GIA, use Sarin equipment to get the various parameters you see on the report you got. The issue is that there are quite a few other things that you can get from a Sarin report that aren't included on the final lab report. How useful this is will depend on your objectives but for a stone that you've already bought, that's already set, and that you already love, I see no merit in it whatever.

 

Sarin scans can only be done on unmounted stones. If you decide you REALLY want one for whatever reason, you are going to have to have it taken out of the setting. That said, I have a Sarin machine, as do a few of the other appraisers about the country. Call around and see if there's one in your neighborhood.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Thank you Neil.

 

I have a question, as I can still return it if I am not happy with the purchase (hence I am asking your opinion).

 

Since I can't remove the stone and send it for an inspection, judging from the photos, with different angles, what kind of grade cut do you think it is? is it a poor/fair/good/very good? I am not asking for anything hard and fast, but just your opinion based on very bad photos.

 

Does the polish=very good have any effect on the cutting? I am more concerned with table depth. I think in the second photo, you may be able to see a little of how much space is from the table to the girdle... not experienced at seeing what a good table depth is visually, but maybe u are since you have seen a lot?

 

Best regards,

Thank you so much again for getting back to me so quickly

B.T.W. what kind of deal do you think I got? good/bad/ok? sorry, just a little insecure about this. want to give my future wife the best.

Edited by maxman11

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Polish is nothing to do with the proportions - it is a grade indicating how "smooth" the facets are. You could have absolutely wonderful polish on a totally crap cut stone and vice-versa. In general, though, high polish is a good sign that the cutter took his time to finish the stone properly, and it probably means that - within some constraints - it's not a crap cut either.

 

From the photos, it's impossible (for me at any rate) to comment on the cut quality much beyond this; you have seen it "live", you believe it is beautiful (and it is - nicely put together ring), and you paid a reasonable price for it. Ideally, crown height could be higher, table could be smaller. Would you notice? Maybe. But one of the good things about shopping for estate jewellery is that it is what it is. There is little point in worrying whether you could find another one just like this one but with a smaller table. There just ain't one. The other nice thing is that you see the piece, completed and finished, and you can assess whether you like it without any need to imagine "how it will come out".

 

Finally, the third good thing about estate jewellery is the cost. A new 1.0x E/VS2 princess cut with good but not top cut will set you off about $5000, plus or minus a couple of hundreds. Add in another $500 for the side stones, $1500+ for a platinum mounting and you are at $7000 or so, plus taxes. Is $4400 reasonable for a second hand piece? Yes, particularly if it comes from a store with a good reputation and it includes some warranty and service (e.g. resizing).


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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