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kotzes

Help Asap - I Am Confused On Buying The Stone

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Hi

 

I am extremely confused.

 

After weeks on the internet and research I have at least found the type of ring I want but the centre stone is giving me gray hairs and nightmares!

 

I see diamonds and rings when I close my eyes, when I dream and when I open my eyes.

 

I think I have at least decided on the shape of the stone which should be Marquise (due to my other half's tastes)

 

My problem now is that I cant seem to get to figure out what the perfect cut must be Table/Depth for it to have max brilliance.

 

I have also seen these two diamond which has IGI certs and says its a goot cut but their Table/Depth ratios is not close to the 60/60 rule of thumb?

 

Can you look at this and tell me if they are any good pls?

 

IGI Cert

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/6576.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d3%26order%3dprice%26PF%3d100%26PT%3d2000%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d2.99

 

No Cert - Stay away?

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/33554.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d3%26order%3dprice%26PF%3d100%26PT%3d2000%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d2.99

 

No Cert - Stay away?

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/10396.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d2%26order%3dprice-desc%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d0.99

 

 

Help will be much appreciated as I need to get the ring bought and then the stones placed in it and back to me by 15 Dec! - Crazy

 

Email me

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Hi

 

I am extremely confused.

 

After weeks on the internet and research I have at least found the type of ring I want but the centre stone is giving me gray hairs and nightmares!

 

I see diamonds and rings when I close my eyes, when I dream and when I open my eyes.

 

I think I have at least decided on the shape of the stone which should be Marquise (due to my other half's tastes)

 

My problem now is that I cant seem to get to figure out what the perfect cut must be Table/Depth for it to have max brilliance.

 

I have also seen these two diamond which has IGI certs and says its a goot cut but their Table/Depth ratios is not close to the 60/60 rule of thumb?

 

Can you look at this and tell me if they are any good pls?

 

IGI Cert

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/6576.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d3%26order%3dprice%26PF%3d100%26PT%3d2000%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d2.99

 

No Cert - Stay away?

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/33554.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d3%26order%3dprice%26PF%3d100%26PT%3d2000%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d2.99

 

No Cert - Stay away?

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/10396.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d2%26order%3dprice-desc%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d0.99

 

 

Help will be much appreciated as I need to get the ring bought and then the stones placed in it and back to me by 15 Dec! - Crazy

 

Email me

Depth and table percentages are NOT a reasonable way to evaluate a diamond. The 60:60 suggestion, aside from being a bit obsolete doesn’t apply to marquise cuts. Lastly, fancy colors like you’re looking at are generally cut to maximize color, not brilliance, and the general advice on how to evaluate cut are out the window anyway.

 

What to do: Choose your vendor first. Since all 3 stones are from the same outfit, I’m going to presume you’ve already done that. Second,talk to them, either in person or by email and tell them what your objectives are. Ask for their advice. If you don’t trust them to give good advice, find a different dealer. If you do trust them, take it. If you mostly trust them but are nervous about the whole thing (which applies to most people shopping for a blind item like diamonds), get their advice and then have an independent appraiser evaluate the stone and the whole deal afterwords while you’re still within the return period from the dealer.

 

 

By the way, I rather like my grey hair and dreaming about diamonds. B)

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Hi

 

I am extremely confused.

 

After weeks on the internet and research I have at least found the type of ring I want but the centre stone is giving me gray hairs and nightmares!

 

I see diamonds and rings when I close my eyes, when I dream and when I open my eyes.

 

I think I have at least decided on the shape of the stone which should be Marquise (due to my other half's tastes)

 

My problem now is that I cant seem to get to figure out what the perfect cut must be Table/Depth for it to have max brilliance.

 

I have also seen these two diamond which has IGI certs and says its a goot cut but their Table/Depth ratios is not close to the 60/60 rule of thumb?

 

Can you look at this and tell me if they are any good pls?

 

IGI Cert

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/6576.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d3%26order%3dprice%26PF%3d100%26PT%3d2000%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d2.99

 

No Cert - Stay away?

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/33554.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d3%26order%3dprice%26PF%3d100%26PT%3d2000%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d2.99

 

No Cert - Stay away?

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/FancyDiamond/sg/10396.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2ffancy-diamonds%2fResult.aspx%3fpage%3d2%26order%3dprice-desc%26WF%3d0.5%26WT%3d0.99

 

 

Help will be much appreciated as I need to get the ring bought and then the stones placed in it and back to me by 15 Dec! - Crazy

 

Email me

 

 

 

 

 

I would stick with GIA graded diamonds personally. Especially if you are purchasing from the internet. I did send you an alternative option.

What is the setting style that you have settled on?

Edited by jan

Jan

For those that want to know the truth about diamonds, just ask.

 

dbof.com

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I'd be quite worried about the dealer (or the lab) that sells diamonds graded "Fancy Cognac" - or "Champagne". Or Pineau de Charentes. Stick to GIA, particularly with fancy colours.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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kotzes- I would say that the price range you're shopping in- that being around $1200 per carat for the 1ct plus stones, is at the bottom of the scale, for a one carat stone.

That does not mean for sure it won't be pretty- or that you won;t love it- but make very sure the return policy is completely transparent- and that you're getting a reasonable period to get a refund if you're not happy.

Being expensive is no guarantee of beauty. But stones at the lower ends of the spectrum price-wise, need to be looked at in person.

 

IN terms of the cut, I'm sure Neil will agree, boiling the cut of any diamond down to table depth numbers is oversimplifying the whole concept of how to accurately asses a diamonds' cut quality.

 

The only comparable we have is this stone- and it's a lot more than theirs. ( $3695 on our site)

1.17ct Fancy Brownish Yellow (GIA)

r3333c.jpg

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1. GIA graded diamond highly recommended. I would stay away from IGI and other alphabet diamond grading labs where color/clarity may be off by 1-3 grades resulting in you paying more money for less diamond.

 

2. Keep an open mind. Don't get boxed in playing the "numbers" game with fancy shapes. It not only doesn't work, it can work against you in that a diamond with a table/depth percentage that is outside the "rule of thumb" may actually be a very beautiful stone. The architecture of fancy shapes is irregular and thus light entry/exit is haphazard; a skilled diamond cutter can harness that light and get it to maximally refract by manipulating crown and pavilion angles and facets so that the visual sum is greater than its parts (numbers).

 

3. If you're shopping on the Internet, work with an experienced Diamond Vendor that knows diamonds and is not just pushing paper.


Barry
www.exceldiamonds.com
@Exceldiamonds on Twitter

Excel Diamonds on Facebook

sales@exceldiamonds.com
1-866-829-8600
1-212-921-0635

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Hi Again

 

Reading all the communications, and if I am reading this correctly, seem to say to only really pay attention to GIA certifications.

 

Before I posted the initial thread I came across the below webpage some weeks back on certifications.

 

http://www.designsbyindigo.co.uk/page/page/1880215.htm

 

Extracts

 

"Ironically, IGI today faces more discussions with dis-satisfied diamond dealers than HRD or GIA does, for it is their feeling that IGI's grading system has become too severe, both for colour as for clarity."

 

and

 

"According to some diamond websites, the impression is given that GIA is the 'only' consistent grader: however, GIA's main share holder is Mr Robert Mouawad who is involved in many a diamond company"

Would like to know your opinions on this.

 

I also came across the website www.truthaboutdiamonds.com which was an interesting read to say the least, if of course what is said is true.

 

Many Thanks for all your responses so far.

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GIA really is *the* standard when it comes to grading diamonds. I believe they were the first to do so, but they are definitely pioneers in a lot of the grading technology, including the newly (well, in the last few years) introduced Cut Grade for Round Brilliant diamonds.

 

You're looking at fancy colored Marquise diamonds, so you're going to have a lot harder time comparing apples to apples, and you're buying online, so you're going to have an even harder time choosing. The good thing is that the place you are buying from seems to be offering photographs of the EXACT diamonds they have for sale, so at least you get a better idea of how they look and their outlines (which is important in shapes!). I'd say if you ONLY want to choose from the three you showed, i'd go with the second--it's got the best outline. But, I'd say make *100% sure* that you 1--trust the dealer that you're working with and 2--understand, are comfortable with, and can comply with their return policy. Buying online can be a bit of a gamble, and you don't want to risk being "stuck" with something that you're not totally happy with, and more importantly, that you're not totally sure that she'll be happy with.

 

Are you getting the ring from the same source? Will they set your stone? Or if you have your stone set by someone else, will it negate your option to return?

 

Anyway...good luck and congrats in advance!


Diamonds Graduate, Pearls Graduate, AJP GIA

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Hm. Now, as far as I know Mouawad is a significant benefactor/contributor to GIA, but the organisation itself is a non-profit (the education business) + a for-profit (the lab), both owned by the equivalent of a University trust. I may be wrong, and certainly Mouawad as a big donor may well have some influence regardless of actual ownership - but even if it were so it would be unlikely to be exerted on the day-to-day grading of "consumer level" stones. The 2005 scandal involved a number of people who were promptly fired, but the fraud involved only trade members, and it was based on the misgrading of large and valuable stones.

 

Some of the other "news" on the article go back more than 30 years - things have changed somewhat in terms of perception and practice, if they were ever true. For example, the fact that IGI is ISO-9000 certified only means that they have clear processes and they follow them. ISO certification is no guarantee of the quality of the process itself, despite its misguiding name of "Quality Standard".

 

Also another fact is that - regardless of the objective accuracy of the reports - GIA is regarded as more reliable than IGI. I also happen to think this is warranted in reality, but the fact is that if you were to resell the diamond with an IGI paper, the paper would be discounted by the dealer and you'd have to rely on the dealer's word. If the paper were by GIA the dealer would have a much harder time expressing a matter-of-fact contrary opinion (i.e. not "I like this more than that", but "This is a higher colour" or "Lower clarity")

 

On truthaboutdiamonds.com - I agree with quite a few (but not all) the points of view expressed. However, in some cases it is a matter of opinion and personal preference, rather than "fact". For example, in terms of colour. Also, one of the interesting things that is not mentioned on the site is that the owner of the site is effectively on a pay-per-clickthrough scheme with some of the dealers and sites mentioned. While that does not automatically invalidate the opinions expressed, it does cast some doubt as to their total neutrality/objectivity or their representativeness.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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