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Bought A Diamond Online But Was Appraised For A Lot Less


j5uh
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I bought a diamond online for my girlfriend (engagement ring), won't say which site yet, but i got it appraised here locally in town (houston), and they basically "ripped" on my diamond. I paid about $7200 but appraised for $5400. Is this right? please help, cause I need to return it by Tuesday at the latest to get my money back...!! :lol:

 

Here are the specs of the diamond:

 

Round Brilliant (GIA Certified)

1.01 Carat

Color F

Clarity VS1

Cut Excellent

Total Depth - 61.5%

Table Size - 57%

Crown Angle - 36%

Crown Height - 15.5%

Pavillion Angle - 40.6%

Pavillion Depth - 43%

Star Length - 55%

Lower Half - 80%

Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted 3.0%

Culet - none

Polish Excellent

Symetry - Excellent

Flourescence - none

6.44 - 6.47 x 3.97 mm

Edited by j5uh
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You didn't list the clarity.

 

Is your appraiser disagreeing with the specs you've given or is it just the price that's at issue? Did you point out the discrepancy during the appraisal session? What did they have to say?

 

Neil

 

The appraiser is saying that it not an ideal cut but the GIA says it is. The clarity is a vs1 sorry.

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In addition to Neil's questions - who is the appraiser? Is he/she a true indipendent professional, or is he/she a jewellery retailer? Did you make it clear to him/her that you were looking for a retail replacement appraisal?

 

FWIW - With the clarity info you added, and based only on the paper, the price you paid seems reasonable to me...

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Hum - not an Ideal cut? Ask your appraiser to define "Ideal Cut", since the proportions would most likely make it an AGS 0... - unless there is something rather wrong with the cut consistency.

 

Oh, and I assume the crown angle is not 40.6 degrees but something much closer to 35-35.5

Edited by davidelevi
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Hum - not an Ideal cut? Ask your appraiser to define "Ideal Cut", since the proportions would most likely make it an AGS 0... - unless there is something rather wrong with the cut consistency.

 

Oh, and I assume the crown angle is not 40.6 degrees but something much closer to 35-35.5

 

Appraiser said that the height of the crown was too high and crown angle was too steep that when you set it in a ring, it would come lose often.

 

Also, please speak in laymen terms. =) new to diamonds.

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I’m not sure the appraiser is answering the right question. GIA called it ‘excellent’ (they don’t use the term ideal) and even if it doesn’t meet with AGS’s or someone else’s definition of idealness, it is what it is, a GIA graded 1.01/F/VS1/XXX. An appraisal is an estimate of value for a particular item or items in a particular marketplace and on a particular date. The definition of that marketplace and that date should both be in the body of the report and if it’s not ring him/her up and ask for it.

 

In most cases, the definition of value is going to be something like “the expected funding required to replace the item(s) with another of like kind and quality within a reasonable amount of time and in the usual and customary marketplace where items of this type are acquired by the general public.†There are quite a few variations on this and different appraisers use different phrasing but it generally boils down to estimating local retail pricing. It's usually in boilerplate text of the appraisal report.

 

Assuming this is the case, I would ask where he/she can reliably get a GIA/101.F/VS1/xxx for $5400.

 

This is all highly suspicious and I’m with Davide in wondering if this appraiser has a hidden agenda, especially one that involves selling you an alternative stone themselves.

 

40.6 is surely the pavilion angle, not the crown angle because GIA wouldn’t have given it an ‘excellent’ cut otherwise. The claim that a steep crown angle, even if it has one, will result in the stone falling out is nonsense.

 

What's the report number on the GIA report?

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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oops, here is the info straight from the gia site:

 

Round Brilliant

Measurements: 6.44 - 6.47 x 3.97 mm

Carat Weight: 1.01 carat

Color Grade: F

Clarity Grade: VS1

Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:

Depth: 61.5%

Table: 57%

Crown Angle: 36.0°

Crown Height: 15.5%

Pavilion Angle: 40.6°

Pavilion Depth: 43.0%

Star length: 55%

Lower Half: 80%

Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: None

 

GIA Report Number: 5106158114

 

 

So did I overpay for this diamond?

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So did I overpay for this diamond?

I don't speculate on pricing of stones that I haven't seen and without discussing the entire market issue with my client although there are others here who may be willing to venture an opinion based on what you've provided. I do however think you should hold your appraisers feet to the fire on this. You've paid for a professional service and it's entirely fair that you should receive it. They've seen the stone, they've taken the time to inspect it and they've been paid for their expertise.

 

This is the question to be asking them, and apparently it's not the one they've answered, or at least not in a way that makes sense to you. Read the report in it's entirety (including all of that fine print), call them up in the morning and ask some hard questions.

 

Neil

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Differently from Neil - who has a professional interest and reputation to maintain and thus correctly doesn't comment - I will offer my opinion. You haven't overpaid.

 

If you look at rounds F/VS1 just above 1 carat, prices range between $4500 and $9800. If you narrow it to diamonds with similar proportions (unfortunately the database here does not include GIA/AGS cut grades), the lower threshold is somewhere around $6500. Are these perfectly comparable with your stone? Who knows. We do know that GIA thinks it's well cut, and from the other information on the grading report this seems to be very much the case. The crown angle is steep, but not dramatically, and it certainly does not pose any risk of the stone slipping out of the prongs.

 

I think your appraiser has quite a few questions to answer. At this point, in no circumstances I would trust them if they were to recommend you consider a different stone.

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So this person is from DCI (diamond cutters international)... he gave me their book "how to buy a diamond".

 

The book and the guy was saying that the crown angle should be 34-35. Mines a 36, so it made it a class 4 which is bottom of the line, Total depth should be 59.3-61 and mines a 61.5, so is this book/guy right?

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I'd run a mile in whatever direction they are not going, and do it very fast.

 

1. Fred Cuellar (the guy behind DCI) is well known for pushing this type of scheme, where diamonds from competitors are found flawed and suddenly an "ideal" one is found just next door

 

2. A diamond is a very complex object, and issuing prescriptive criteria such as those found by you is fraught with dangers.

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You’ve got 2 conflicting and incompatible opinions as to the cut grading on the stone. GIA’s and Fred Cuellar’s. This means you need to decide whose system to believe and the only way to do that is to research the sources. Someone is lying to you. Look into it, pick one and believe them, ignore the other. Fred stands alone against the entire industry in his theories of what makes for a good cut and although this doesn’t necessarily make him wrong I would take it as serious reason for concern. Personally, I"m solidly in the GIA camp and would deposit that book in the nearest recycling center.

 

I again would like to address this 'appraisal'. What you’ve received isn’t an appraisal at all, it’s an advertisement. Hopefully you weren’t charged for it. He thinks his stones he's selling are ‘better’ and therefore worth more. He’s welcome to take that position and try to defend it but it’s not the subject of an appraisal. What would a GIA/1.01/F/VS1/xxx like you have cost in the subject marketplace? What is the subject marketplace? They apparently don’t sell them at all, you already know what they cost online and you’ve probably shopped other stores in town where I'll be willing to guess that they cost more than what you paid so the question still stands: Where are these reliably available for $5400? If that's not what's meant by the value conclusion, what does it mean?

Edited by denverappraiser
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Just another example of sellers attempting to blur lines by using technicalities that no consumer might understand.

Not because the consumer is not intelligent- just the opposite. Most intelligent consumers want to have statistical info they can compare. That no experienced diamond buyer would use these techniques is unimportant- as long as the waters gut muddied.

Reprehensible- especially combining this with an "appraisal".

 

May, many many people in the trade- respected people- have spoken out against DCI- and this is a perfect example of why.

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I bought a diamond online for my girlfriend (engagement ring), won't say which site yet, but i got it appraised here locally in town (houston), and they basically "ripped" on my diamond. I paid about $7200 but appraised for $5400. Is this right? please help, cause I need to return it by Tuesday at the latest to get my money back...!! :unsure:

 

Here are the specs of the diamond:

 

Round Brilliant (GIA Certified)

1.01 Carat

Color F

Clarity VS1

Cut Excellent

Total Depth - 61.5%

Table Size - 57%

Crown Angle - 36%

Crown Height - 15.5%

Pavillion Angle - 40.6%

Pavillion Depth - 43%

Star Length - 55%

Lower Half - 80%

Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted 3.0%

Culet - none

Polish Excellent

Symetry - Excellent

Flourescence - none

6.44 - 6.47 x 3.97 mm

 

 

This has to be a mistake. An appraisal value is supposed to be the amount a retail store would charge for a diamond like that. The advantage of purchasing diamonds online is that you are going to be paying much less than in any jewelry store you walk into. I would call the company you purchased the diamond from, because I am sure this is a simple typo.

 

Steven

steven@brilliance.com

www.brilliance.com

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This has to be a mistake. An appraisal value is supposed to be the amount a retail store would charge for a diamond like that. The advantage of purchasing diamonds online is that you are going to be paying much less than in any jewelry store you walk into. I would call the company you purchased the diamond from, because I am sure this is a simple typo.

 

Steven

steven@brilliance.com

www.brilliance.com

Hi Steven,

 

I disagree with you on both counts. An appraisal is a statement of value in a particular market on a particular date. Although many are describing or attempting to describe the local jewelry store prices, it is not required. What IS required is that it say what it means and provide a definition of value. Unfortunately, a lot of appraisers neglect even this fundamental piece of information and some will be listing a sky high price that stores would be putting on a price tag before discounting while others will be listing a bottom of the barrel price in order to kill a sale. Just because an ‘appraiser’ says something doesn’t make it true and even if it’s true, it doesn’t make it applicable to all circumstances. An appraisal value taken out of context can often cause more harm than good.

 

Jewelers, including online jewelers, set their own prices. It’s simply not correct to say all online merchants are cheaper than all storefront merchant. Each dealer and each deal should be evaluated on it’s own merits.

 

Neil

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What? You mean Fred the convicted diamond felon might be doing something shady? Shocking! Do a few searches online and you will find he and his grading techniques have been discredited many times in the past. Moreover he was convicted of 1st degree felony theft for defrauding diamond investors for $1 million.

 

Soooo the question is, whose opinion should you trust more? GIA or a convicted felon? Hmmmm . . . follow your instincts.

 

I'm sorry he got you so worked up over this. I would recommend taking it to a true appraiser.

 

Oh, one more thing, the statement that it is basically impossible to set this stone proves what a dumb ass this guy is, or his lieing. Either way, he is trying to scare you into buying something from him.

 

P.S. Here is the article if you are interested in reading about Fred's conviction

 

http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/sto.../08/story3.html

Edited by m987
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Stick with either a GIA or AGS lab grading report; they are the best.

 

If you want/need an appraisal, use an Independent Appraiser who does not sell diamonds/jewelry.

 

Work with either a reputable B&M jeweler or an on-line jeweler that does not drop ship but has the diamond in hand.

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I bought a diamond online for my girlfriend (engagement ring), won't say which site yet, but i got it appraised here locally in town (houston), and they basically "ripped" on my diamond. I paid about $7200 but appraised for $5400. Is this right? please help, cause I need to return it by Tuesday at the latest to get my money back...!! :(

 

Here are the specs of the diamond:

 

Round Brilliant (GIA Certified)

1.01 Carat

Color F

Clarity VS1

Cut Excellent

Total Depth - 61.5%

Table Size - 57%

Crown Angle - 36%

Crown Height - 15.5%

Pavillion Angle - 40.6%

Pavillion Depth - 43%

Star Length - 55%

Lower Half - 80%

Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted 3.0%

Culet - none

Polish Excellent

Symetry - Excellent

Flourescence - none

6.44 - 6.47 x 3.97 mm

 

 

I saw some that were a few hundred less than what you paid, however $5400 is ridiculous for an appraisal on a diamond like that. Make sure you get an independent ( someone that doesn't sell diamonds) appraisal.

Edited by jan
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