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Progem Fancy Yellow Radiant Cut


JDL
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All,

 

I went and looked at a stone yesterday that is eye clean and the one inclusion which earned it a SI1 from Progem is difficult to see under the scope.

 

The stats are :

 

Radiant Cut

Natural Fancy yellow

Natural stone

6.91 X 5.83 X 4.10 mm.

1.520 ct.

SI1 clarity

color analysis: Fancy slightly brownish yellow

this is why we can get the stone for a bargain price. When you see it you will no what I mean. It faces up strong vibrant yellow.

 

The "slightly" brownish is not something I as a consumer could even tell. It looks like a fancy yellow with no brown hue whatsoever. He is offering me the stone for $3800 per carat or $5776.

 

I can get any other info on the stone you guys might need to weigh in on your opinion. He has offered to send it to GIA if I would like, but in all of my readings it looks like Professional Gem Sciences is just as strict as GIA. The jeweler also said (and he has been in business for 30+ years) that EGL would absolutely rate this stone as a VS.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

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The fact is that having a brown modifier - however slight - decreases the value of the diamond considerably. And the issue frankly is whether GIA would confirm that (or call it brown-yellow or brownish-yellow), rather than anything to do with EGL calling it VS clarity. This is despite the fact that a brown tinge in yellow diamonds makes them appear deeper - and to some eyes nicer - than pure yellow ones. Believe me, though, the brown will be noticeable if set side by side with a pure yellow. Which will happen every... uhh, shall we say couple of centuries?

 

The question is whether the tint bothers you, in which case you can get a good 1 carat "pure" FY for that money or thereabouts (e.g. this one), or something lighter (FLY or borderline) around the 1.5 mark - such as this one.

 

If it doesn't, I'd say it's a fair price rather than a bargain. If the vendor is happy to send it to GIA, I would ask him to do that - should it ever come to resale, it would be easier. Don't get stuck into a "I'll send it to GIA at your expense" or "I'll send it to GIA if you buy it" deal. Make your buying it contingent on having a GIA report that confirms the ProGem one.

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HI Everyone!

 

Thanks Davide- great post!

 

For me there's a lot of red flags.

If you're looking for a cheap stone, this one meets that qualification- but the fact is, there's got to be a reason why. Both stone of ours posted by Davide are such stones. One for Fluorescent reasons, the other symmetry.

I'm not saying it's a bad deal, but I agree with Davide- it may be worth the money, but it's likely no bargain.....

If you've read stuff that compares Professional Gem Sciences to GIA on a stone like this, it's simply incorrect.

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This jeweler is a friend of the family. He was actually going to start looking for stones for me per my requirements when he remembered he had this one and wanted to run it past me. I had him give me the full stats on the cert today, they are below. I am guessing now that I have seen the rest of the cert that it is even less of a bargain given the floresence.

 

Please let me know what you think and thank you for all of the feedback thus far.

 

Natural Fancy yellow

Natural stone

 

1.520 ct.

SI1 clarity

color analysis: Fancy slightly brownish yellow

fluorescence-strong blue

 

Cut info.:

dimentions-6.91 X 5.83 X 4.10 mm.

table width-79%

crown angle-42.0 degrees

crown height-9.5%

pavilion depth-55.5%

pavilion angle-48.0 degrees

girdle thickness-slightly thick to thick. average 5.3%.... polished

culet size-none, pointed (0.1%)

**************total**************

70.3%

 

finish:

polish-good

symmetry-good to very good

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Let's translate this into automotive terms....

 

If someone is offering a Cadillac for $6000, what can we expect?

 

You've seen the stone....do you love it?

 

The only "concern" I had (and this just may be an lack of education in fancy colored diamonds) is that under both fluorescent and incandescent lighting, the stone looked like a fancy yellow. However, under sunlight, the stone looked nearly clear. This was what made me research it further and ultimately brought me here to pose the question. Is this normal?

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The strong blue fluoresence can have that type of effect.

Given the price, if you were not comfortable with the seller, I'd be very concerned that the stone might be treated......

BUt if you are comfortable with the seller, and they assure you it's natural, and you like the way it looks, what the hey!

 

But if you have any doubts, then let's discuss them

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The strong blue fluoresence can have that type of effect.

Given the price, if you were not comfortable with the seller, I'd be very concerned that the stone might be treated......

BUt if you are comfortable with the seller, and they assure you it's natural, and you like the way it looks, what the hey!

 

But if you have any doubts, then let's discuss them

 

I have no reason to doubt the jeweler or the progem cert. Jerry also offered to send it for GIA grading if I was interested in the stone, so I am not worried about that part either.

 

I was originally looking for a nice radiant or princess cut at or around 1 carat for a ring design based loosely on this on the ring attached in the images (minus the 18k yellow gold surrounding the ring and some changes to the band).

 

He recalled he has this stone and asked if I wanted to take a look at it. I am not locked into it or have my heart set on it and "size" is certainly not my driving factor. He is doing the work for me on the custom ring at a substantially reduced price because of the work I did for him for his new website (I wasn't expecting anything in return but it is very generous of him). At this point, I am just looking for the right stone for the ring. If the fluorescence is what is at the root of the washed out appearance in sunlight, then it gives me pause on going forward with that particular rock.

 

Thoughts?

post-117469-1236206592_thumb.jpg

post-117469-1236206601_thumb.jpg

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I have no reason to doubt the jeweler or the progem cert. Jerry also offered to send it for GIA grading if I was interested in the stone, so I am not worried about that part either.

 

JDL, If you've read what's been written here, you'd have EVERY reason to doubt the "cert"

No one in the trade would consider a Fancy Yellow stone without a GIA report.

A progem cert would be immediately disregarded.

Knowledgeable folks have told you that there's no substitute for a GIA report.

All due respect, but if you're not going to consider the advice given, why ask?

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I apologize if you took what I said as a lack of taking your advice. You asked stated that if I had concerns that we should talk and that is all I was doing. I will request the GIA of the stone and once I have it, I will post the data. Thank you for your time.

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JDL, I apologize to you - having answered this question 1000 times, I'm a bit jaded.

It's also a shame that there's so many sellers who really use the confusion about labs to their advantage.

If two sellers are both selling G/SI1 diamonds, and one is 30% less than the other, in many cases it's due to the lack of a GIA report. Yet the sellers conveniently forget to mention that part to the buyers, preferring to stress the "fact" that they are 30% less expensive.

You did nothing wrong- but to me it's frustrating that so many seller tarnish the profession.

 

 

For comparison, here's a stone from our store. This one is a 1.47ct Fancy Brownish Yellow ( graded by GIA).

This one was priced loose at a little over $3000 [er carat- which might validate the other guys price.

r2851e.jpg

 

 

In this case, if the seller does not specialize in Natural Fancy Colors, I'd advise getting the GIA report. It can't hurt.

Edited by diamondsbylauren
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Lauren,

 

No worries, I did not take anything personally and I completely understand where you are coming from. As a software engineer and having been doing IT/computer related activities since I was 9 years old or so, I could easily say the same for other consultants in my line of business.

 

I think due to the washed out appearance of the stone in natural light, the "appeal" for the stone just isn't there and the general concensus (both here and elsewhere) is that it is very likely due to the fluorescence. That said, I am going to pass on this particular rock.

 

Has anyone done business with http://www.icestore.com? This is where I originally started my search and started to develop a baseline for fancy colored stone pricing. The drawback I see with dealing with them is that all of the stones are GIA graded, but only with a color cert, not the full workup.

 

Does anyone have a good website to point me towards for pricing on fancy yellows? Also, does anyone have any input on the setting? I am not married to it yet, but I do like the general look of it (minus the yellow gold band around the center stone).

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

Edited by JDL
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Jim,

 

On the GIA Color Origin vs. Diamond Dossier/Grading Report: for coloured diamonds, colour is king, followed by cut. Clarity becomes akin to what happens for other coloured gems - a VVS is a VVS, but as long as it's eye clean it's good... And forget all of the "rules" of cut that you may have picked up about colourless diamonds - the laws of optics don't change, but the cutter's objective is to maximise the perceived colour of the stone, not to maximise the amount of light reflected back. This makes rounds unpopular, and radiants very common - exact opposite of what happens in colourless. All this to say: it's nice to have all of the info, but not quite as indispensable as it is for colourless.

 

Other site to consider for benchmarks on price is fancydiamonds.net - although they give very little info to work on. DBL is the best from that point of view, since Icestore uses stock photos only (but they have a lot of stock).

 

Two points on the setting:

 

1. If your FI leads a very active life and intends to wear the ring 24/7, having a pave set ring with a high mounted stone could be less than ideal from a durability point of view

 

2. If you get a fairly intense yellow stone, I'd consider eliminating the yellow halo or replacing it with a white one if you like the double halo. Yellow melee in yellow gold can become very very yellow, and I think you want the centre stone to pop, not the halo!

 

Also - but this is personal taste - I find there's too much going on. Eliminating the YG shank goes some way towards making the design more intelligible, but I still think there's a lot.

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The strong blue fluoresence can have that type of effect.

Given the price, if you were not comfortable with the seller, I'd be very concerned that the stone might be treated......

BUt if you are comfortable with the seller, and they assure you it's natural, and you like the way it looks, what the hey!

 

But if you have any doubts, then let's discuss them

 

I have no reason to doubt the jeweler or the progem cert. Jerry also offered to send it for GIA grading if I was interested in the stone, so I am not worried about that part either.

 

I was originally looking for a nice radiant or princess cut at or around 1 carat for a ring design based loosely on this on the ring attached in the images (minus the 18k yellow gold surrounding the ring and some changes to the band).

 

He recalled he has this stone and asked if I wanted to take a look at it. I am not locked into it or have my heart set on it and "size" is certainly not my driving factor. He is doing the work for me on the custom ring at a substantially reduced price because of the work I did for him for his new website (I wasn't expecting anything in return but it is very generous of him). At this point, I am just looking for the right stone for the ring. If the fluorescence is what is at the root of the washed out appearance in sunlight, then it gives me pause on going forward with that particular rock.

 

Thoughts?

 

Are your pictures of the actual ring and stone that you put a link to? If so it does look pretty nice for the price.

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Sorry for causing so much confusion regarding the setting.

 

The ring I am having designed is based off of that ring that I found while Googling. I don't like the yellow band around the stone (way overkill IMO and takes away from the beauty of a fancy yellow) and it will not be present. There will however be a platinum track around it with white stones.

 

I emailed Jerry last night about the stone and my concerns and he agreed wholeheartedly about the blue florescence and he was going to suggest we keep looking for stones. I really hope I didn't give the impression that he was trying to "move" this stone, he just had it and wanted to know if I wanted to look at it / if I was interested. He designs custom jewelery and has for over 30 years and he is making the setting. Initially I was going to get the stone elsewhere (like IceStore), but if he can find what I am looking for (GIA graded), all the better.

 

As for how active she is and why I went recessed like that. She is an nurse and is very hands on (when she is allowed to wear jewelery) and I was looking at designs that were more "contained". Here was another design I was toying with however I would like to do it with a fancy yellow oval and two chocolate pears.

post-117469-1236294567_thumb.jpg

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That looks nice and a lot more cohesive as a design than the first one you posted. Only things that would concern me are whether it looks OK proportion-wise and whether it's comfortable. It looks like a very broad ring, and it may look a little disproportionate on a smaller hand. Broad shoulders may also rub on the other fingers and become very uncomfortable in the long run (then again, VC&A have built rings that sit "between" fingers - but they are meant as occasional rings, not something to wear every day).

Edited by davidelevi
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