Got Diamond Questions?
Our community of diamond experts are here to provide answers
Sign in to follow this  
cathyb

Told 1.84 Looks Like A 2 Carat. Good Stone? Good Value?

Recommended Posts

I have been looking everywhere for the best and most affordable 2ish carat round diamond. I seem to have suggested diamonds from many jewelers.

 

He told me that it looks like a 2 carat and a beautiful diamond.

1.84 carat

Very Good Cut, Symmetry and Polish

depth 59.2%

measurements are thin to medium girdle

 

Can anyone confirm that this is a good price and good diamond?

Edited by cathyb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the response! Well, I saw the diamond today and it is really nice. It really was a nice size and color (did not look like a J). GIA rated as well. And it looked large. I was worried that it would lose something by being "shallow" if that is the right word but it looked really nice.

Edited by cathyb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some observations/comments:

 

1. It's practically impossible for anyone to comment meaningfully having only the information from a GIA report (and not all of it, either).

 

2. People's priorities will be different. You seem to put a high value on size; others (myself included) will want first and foremost an excellent cut. Both of us seem to consider clarity relatively unimportant, and I'm not sure where you stand on colour - I like all colours, but for a round I prefer warmth. All this not because my preferences are in any way important - but to explain the meaning of my question about "what's good?"

 

3. The second stone is significantly heavier than the first - and it goes above the "magical" 2ct weight, which means it will be more expensive (per carat) by definition. However, it will only look about 5% bigger since it's deeper - in fact probably too deep for many people. I don't think it justifies a 15% premium per carat given it's an SI2 and you value "face size"

 

4. Since you are considering SI2 diamonds, I assume you are looking carefully at whether they are eye clean from a variety of angles, including some side viewing, particularly if you are considering a very "open" or high setting.

 

5. Neither stone is unfairly priced, but neither one is a "top" stone in terms of cut or proportions. Bear in mind that a well cut stone will look larger than a poorly cut one that has the same diameter. Please, do make sure that you look at the diamonds in diffused lighting and daylight, not just under halogen spotlights in the store.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some observations/comments:

 

1. It's practically impossible for anyone to comment meaningfully having only the information from a GIA report (and not all of it, either).

 

2. People's priorities will be different. You seem to put a high value on size; others (myself included) will want first and foremost an excellent cut. Both of us seem to consider clarity relatively unimportant, and I'm not sure where you stand on colour - I like all colours, but for a round I prefer warmth. All this not because my preferences are in any way important - but to explain the meaning of my question about "what's good?"

 

3. The second stone is significantly heavier than the first - and it goes above the "magical" 2ct weight, which means it will be more expensive (per carat) by definition. However, it will only look about 5% bigger since it's deeper - in fact probably too deep for many people. I don't think it justifies a 15% premium per carat given it's an SI2 and you value "face size"

 

4. Since you are considering SI2 diamonds, I assume you are looking carefully at whether they are eye clean from a variety of angles, including some side viewing, particularly if you are considering a very "open" or high setting.

 

5. Neither stone is unfairly priced, but neither one is a "top" stone in terms of cut or proportions. Bear in mind that a well cut stone will look larger than a poorly cut one that has the same diameter. Please, do make sure that you look at the diamonds in diffused lighting and daylight, not just under halogen spotlights in the store.

 

Thanks again for your response. I guess that when you ask me "what's good" this is my answer based on our budget. We are celebrating our 10 year and looking to upgrade. With our first diamond we went with H Vs2, ideal cut. We discussed upgrading and I was a little shocked when I started researching and found how much more a 2 carat diamond is for the same color and clarity as mine. So, I decided clarity was not as important if I can't see the inclusions with my eye and it still looked good after dirtying it with my finger so I decided lowest I would go is SI2(GIA). As far as color, I was always happy with my H so I thought one drop was not a big deal. I was skeptical about the J color but it seemed very close to the I we looked at. I don't how I could possibly look at these diamonds outside without purchasing the stones.

 

Anyways, I want to know I am paying a reasonable price. I did have a jeweler call me tonight and brought this diamond into the mix and I would love some feedback. You mentioned heavier. This new stone seems to be a G color, slightly smaller. Is this one less heavy? I really appreciate you responding to me! I tried to attached the GIA Cert but I can't so this is what I could copy and paste.

 

 

Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report Date of Issue: June 18, 2008

 

Round Brilliant

 

Measurements: 8.15 - 8.24 x 5.14 mm

 

Carat Weight: 2.12

 

Color Grade: G

 

Clarity Grade: SI2

 

Cut Grade: Very Good

 

 

 

Proportions: Depth: 62.7 %

 

Table: 58 %

 

Crown Angle: 36°

 

Crown Height: 15 %

 

Pavilion Angle: 41.6°

 

Pavilion Depth: 44 %

 

Star length: 60 %

 

Lower Half: 80 %

 

Girdle: Very Thin to Medium, Faceted

 

Culet: Very Small

 

Finish:

 

Polish: Very Good

 

Symmetry: Good

 

Fluorescence: None

 

 

Comments: Additional clouds are not shown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I meant heavier in a literal, physical weight sense. 2.26 / 1.84 = +20% weight. It's also cut more "heavily" in the sense that it's deeper and it probably has a steeper crown, which means it faces up smaller than a really well cut stone of its weight should.

 

Same observation applies to the last diamond you posted about. If your intent is to maximise "visible" size within a budget, then I would suggest the following:

 

1. Pick stones that are just under the 2 carat weight. This avoids the premium for reaching the "2" (which as you have seen is considerable), but keeps face up appearance pretty much the same.

 

2. Pick stones with the best possible cut. This will maximise apparent size because of reflected light from the whole stone, rather than just a few areas. It will also help in terms of face up colour, making it possible to go down to K or L without too much visible difference face up.

 

3. Go low on colour as much as you feel comfortable with - but don't assume a priori what you are comfortable with; I think you'll be very surprised how white a truly well cut M can look.

 

4. Look at the stone in different lighting environments. It's always possible to ask the jeweller if they would let you go near a shop window, or in a back office area which is lit with natural or diffused light, rather than the spotlight environment of the main shop area which is designed to make stones sparkle and hide "defects".


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I meant heavier in a literal, physical weight sense. 2.26 / 1.84 = +20% weight. It's also cut more "heavily" in the sense that it's deeper and it probably has a steeper crown, which means it faces up smaller than a really well cut stone of its weight should.

 

Same observation applies to the last diamond you posted about. If your intent is to maximise "visible" size within a budget, then I would suggest the following:

 

1. Pick stones that are just under the 2 carat weight. This avoids the premium for reaching the "2" (which as you have seen is considerable), but keeps face up appearance pretty much the same.

 

2. Pick stones with the best possible cut. This will maximise apparent size because of reflected light from the whole stone, rather than just a few areas. It will also help in terms of face up colour, making it possible to go down to K or L without too much visible difference face up.

 

3. Go low on colour as much as you feel comfortable with - but don't assume a priori what you are comfortable with; I think you'll be very surprised how white a truly well cut M can look.

 

4. Look at the stone in different lighting environments. It's always possible to ask the jeweller if they would let you go near a shop window, or in a back office area which is lit with natural or diffused light, rather than the spotlight environment of the main shop area which is designed to make stones sparkle and hide "defects".

 

Again, thanks for your feedback. I reread your postings a few times and agree it is quite a price difference that makes me uneasy. That being said, the 1.84 cut grade is very good along with polish and symmetry. Do you think this diamond is a good purchase for what I am looking for since its width is 8.09? I just was not sure if you liked this diamond very much or should I keep looking for one with a better cut?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, I'm having similar issues. I just posted yesterday about the EGL vs. GIA and asking about a good balance of proportions and grades... very confusing!

 

Maybe someone with experience can answer this:

What depth and width percentages/ crown height and pavillion depth percentages maximize reflected light and fire?

I read that GIA reported that a 59% table width maximizes 'sparkle' for lack of the correct technical term. It would seem that this table width would maximize the face-up size of the diamond as well. What would be a good depth percentage to pair with a 57-59% table width to make sure the diamond isn't a deep cut and the proportions are spot on for a great mix of fire/ scintillation/ brilliance/ 'sparkle'?

I'm thinking (EGL) round SI-1, F/G and ideal/ excellent cut/ polish/ symetry- just gotta try to get the crown height and pavillion depth percentages right?

Thanks to all the pros out there, great info- John in NC


John, Southeast NC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cathy: I can't tell very much about any of the diamonds - I haven't seen them or even photos; you have. All I can do is comment based on the few bits of info posted here and some knowledge of diamonds and retail prices, but there is no way I can say whether I like a stone. I can say that I'm not very keen on the third one you posted - particularly since you like "size" over other things - for the reasons I posted above, and I'm not very keen on the second one given the price premium compared to the first. Would I buy the first? Not just with the info you posted, because it's insufficient; however it would be the one of the three that I would be most interested in looking at based on your criteria. However - repeat - there is no substitute for looking at the stones, preferably side by side and definitely in as many lighting conditions as possible.

 

John: I don't know where you read this thing about 59% table being optimal for sparkle, but as far as I know GIA never said anything of the sort. There is no fixed recipe for "sparkle", and if there were one it would be extremely complex. A diamond has 57 facets, and all of them need to work with each other to produce the effect you want; a table-depth combination (and a crown/pavillion angle or depth) only reports averages, and ignores an enormous number of factors that play into making a stone look good or bad.

 

Please don't buy a stone based purely on a couple of numbers without having an unconditional return policy valid for at least 10 days and having the stone seen by a competent indipendent expert that can tell you how the stone performs compared to (hopefully many) others that s/he has seen.

 

Side note: if you intend to focus on EGL graded stones, particularly SI, be careful. There are very few bargains out there - if any - and buying an EGL graded stone is not likely to get you one. The cost of a GIA or AGS report is about $200 including shipping, so don't be taken in with the story that "I use EGL because it's cheaper, faster and provides the same service as GIA". If the cutter or retailer has used EGL, there is a reason, and that is to maximise the market value of the stone based on the grade that it's likely to obtain at EGL rather than at GIA.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cathy: I can't tell very much about any of the diamonds - I haven't seen them or even photos; you have. All I can do is comment based on the few bits of info posted here and some knowledge of diamonds and retail prices, but there is no way I can say whether I like a stone. I can say that I'm not very keen on the third one you posted - particularly since you like "size" over other things - for the reasons I posted above, and I'm not very keen on the second one given the price premium compared to the first. Would I buy the first? Not just with the info you posted, because it's insufficient; however it would be the one of the three that I would be most interested in looking at based on your criteria. However - repeat - there is no substitute for looking at the stones, preferably side by side and definitely in as many lighting conditions as possible.

 

 

Thanks again for your response. Well, I had a hard time with that price difference and called and spoke to my jeweler who I feel is a great one in downtown LA. I still need to see the diamond but he called and described it to me. I am going to see it early this week. Based on his description, it sounds great and here it where cut is coming into play so I know you felt this was very important.

GIA certified 2.02 I SI2 8.13x8.17x?

He says cut, polish, symmetry are all rated Excellent!

price (still high but not as high) $12,750.

So, now I am really focusing on the 1.84 and 2.02!

Your final thoughts (even though you have not seen the stone and don't know more than what I described)?

Oh, I did look at an EGL stone in my jewelers office. It was an SI2 and was horrible. He just showed me to compare EGL but only prefers to work with GIA. That is for the other person interested in an EGL stone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Dave for your response.Well, I had a hard time with that price difference and called and spoke to my jeweler yesterday who I feel is a great one in downtown.He found another one for me. I still need to see the diamond but he called and described it to me. I am going to see it early this week. Based on his description, it sounds great and here it where cut is coming into play so I know you felt this was very important. It is GIA certified. 2.02 I SI2 - 8.13x8.17x? He says cut, polish, symmetry are all rated Excellent. Price (still high but not as high $12,750. So, now I am really focusing on the 1.84 and 2.02 Your final thoughts (even though you have not seen the stone and don't know more than what I described. Oh, this is for John...I did look at an EGL stone in my jewelers office. It was an SI2 and was horrible. He just showed me to compare EGL but only prefers to work with GIA. Also, EGL-USA is supposed to be better but still off in their rating. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This sounds promising - with all the caveats above. Whether it's worth the extra $3k, only you can decide. Hopefully you'll be able to compare the stones side by side.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This sounds promising - with all the caveats above. Whether it's worth the extra $3k, only you can decide. Hopefully you'll be able to compare the stones side by side.

 

I will be able to compare all three side by side and by window, etc. I will let you know if I choose one. Thanks! :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, I'd like to hear what you end up with as well (stats and how it looks in person, not necessarily price unless you are willing to share)... very confusing. I just wanted to clarify my post above about me reading that a 59% table width yields a more brilliant round... looked through my notes and it turns out I read it on this tutorial.

I know I shouldn't base my choice on percentages, but I though that would send me in the right direction (using the preferred averages as a starting point).

Like I said in my other post, while using the search engine on diamond.info I've been using 58-62% depth and 54-59% table... don't know if that's right so let me know if I've missed the boat. Again I seem to be seeing EGL diamonds in my price range, seems riskier than going GIA/ AGS but hopefully I can score a beauty. Thanks- John


John, Southeast NC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi John imagine a road direction given like this:

Go 3975feet on Main street than turn 87.3 degrees to the left.

After traveling 100,972 yards, turn 87.2degrees to the right.

 

OR- Take Main street to Elm street, turn right.

When you come to Oak street turn left.

 

I'm not trying to be facetious, but if you used the first set of directions, you'd likely get into a wreck- heaven forbid.

 

Trying to buy a diamond using the same type of directions could also be very dangerous.

The trade realizes that the only grades which are useful in pricing come from GIA, or AGSL-.

Again, if a person ignores this , and attempts to figure out ways to "even the playing field" the results can be really bad- for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Cathy, just wondering if you got a diamond, and if so I'd love to hear the stats (crown/ pavillion angles or percentages, depth and height percentages etc... color/ cut/ gradings etc... I'm heavy into my search for a similar stone and am floundering a bit.

Thanks- John NC


John, Southeast NC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Cathy, just wondering if you got a diamond, and if so I'd love to hear the stats (crown/ pavillion angles or percentages, depth and height percentages etc... color/ cut/ gradings etc... I'm heavy into my search for a similar stone and am floundering a bit.

Thanks- John NC

 

Hi!-

Well, I still think the 1.84 stone was a better value but I loved the 2.26 stone and after researching it and seeing the stone, I felt it was still a good price. We put a deposit on it. My jeweler has sent the stone back into GIA to be recertified. The original date was 2004 so this is all the info I have on it right now. Also, he did show me a stone that came with a GIA certification and EGL-USA. EGL graded it two grades above EGL for color and clarity. Does this help you at all?

Round Brilliant

 

Measurements: 8.36 - 8.46 x 5.28 mm

 

Carat Weight: 2.26

 

Color Grade: I

 

Clarity Grade: SI2

 

 

 

Proportions: Depth: 62.8 %

 

Table: 56 %

 

Girdle: Medium, Faceted

 

Culet: None

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, Yes that does help... I've heard as well that EGL grades about a level or two lower than GIA on color, and sometimes clarity too... so kinda scary, and I don't believe EGL has strict cut criteria like GIA does. EGL USA is better than EGL International/ Israel.

 

I wish it was all standardized and there were clear guidelines to stay within pertaining to crown and depth percentages and angles etc... I guess everyone has an opinion on what produces the best face up width while retaining the best light reflection/ sparkle etc.

 

Once you get the final lab report from GIA I'd love to hear the exact stats (angles and all that)- and what the diamond looks like in comparison to others you've seen.

I'm close to deciding myself, and am in the 2 carat range (round), most likely GIA, SI-2 or better, H color or better (maybe I)... trying to keep the stone under $12,500.

It's tough!

Best wishes- John NC


John, Southeast NC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will let you know. I keep looking around and have not been able to find a deal lower than the one I found for my diamond. It also helps my jeweler will buy my other diamond back for a decent price. Seems like if I went to an H color, there was quite a jump in price. I am also hoping that our GIA lab report comes back with an excellent cut or even very good. I have seent the stone and I think it looks really nice. Under 12,500 does sound tough especially without flourescence. Funny, my jeweler did show me a I or J SI2 excellent cut, polish and symmetry for 12.7. (2.02) GIA. However, I was already fixated on my stone. Where do you live? Maybe you could check it out!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, Thanks! I'm still looking hot and heavy. I live in Wilmington NC- still looking for a 2+ carat round... have seen some GIA, H/I, SI-1/2 very good to excellent cut rings for around $12K. Don't think I want to go to "J" color. Trying to stay away from all but light flourescence.

I'll let you know when I decide on one- thanks! John

OH and let me know what the GIA report shows... I'm sure it's beautiful regardless!


John, Southeast NC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I am really torn. I am waiting patiently for this GIA report to come back on the original 2.26 and then another one happened to pop up online (Blue Nile). The price is exactly the same but the color is a G instead of I and all the ratings are excellent - better than my original diamond. Any feedback as to whether or not this second 2.26 may be a much batter value is appreciated! I don't know the cut grade on the first but I included the other details above. I will just repost both reports. Any professional advice is appreciated.

Here is the info I have on the first diamond both $13,750

Measurements: 8.36 - 8.46 x 5.28 mm

 

Carat Weight: 2.26

 

Color Grade: I

 

Clarity Grade: SI2

 

 

 

Proportions: Depth: 62.8 %

 

Table: 56 %

 

Girdle: Medium, Faceted

 

Culet: None

 

Finish:

 

Polish: Excellent

 

Symmetry: Very Good

 

Fluorescence: None

 

 

Comments: Additional clouds are not shown.

 

*********************************************************************

 

Here is the 2nd Diamond -

 

Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report Date of Issue: November 04, 2008

 

Round Brilliant

 

Measurements: 8.39 - 8.47 x 5.19 mm

 

Carat Weight: 2.26

 

Color Grade: G

 

Clarity Grade: SI2

 

Cut Grade: Excellent

 

 

 

Proportions: Depth: 61.6 %

 

Table: 57 %

 

Crown Angle: 35°

 

Crown Height: 15 %

 

Pavilion Angle: 41°

 

Pavilion Depth: 43 %

 

Star length: 50 %

 

Lower Half: 80 %

 

Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted

 

Culet: None

 

Finish:

 

Polish: Excellent

 

Symmetry: Excellent

 

Fluorescence: None

 

 

Comments: Additional clouds are not shown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, I'm no pro but have been looking as well, I like the cut analysis tool on www.pricescope.com the link is: http://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp It's simple and quick and tells you if the diamond shows promise or if it might be a bit dull- at least that's my take on it.

I've been told it's more a way to reject bad performers rather than to select winners, and that anything under a "2" is worth further investigation. Not enough info on the first one (crown and pavillion angle) but the 2nd got a rating of 2.3 which is very good across 4 parameters, I personally like to see a couple "Excellent" ratings mixed in... But 2.3 is just above their recommended 2 and under range.. says worth buying if the price is right. It's within GIA Excellent candidate range and just outside AGS Ideal candidate range. Now this is just one analysis of the angles and proportions- to me a GIA cut like that for the money sounds like a killer deal- but I'm a beginner so take it with a grain of salt.

Tough to pick a winner isn't it? Regards- John


John, Southeast NC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi there, I'm no pro but have been looking as well, I like the cut analysis tool on www.pricescope.com the link is: http://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp It's simple and quick and tells you if the diamond shows promise or if it might be a bit dull- at least that's my take on it.

I've been told it's more a way to reject bad performers rather than to select winners, and that anything under a "2" is worth further investigation. Not enough info on the first one (crown and pavillion angle) but the 2nd got a rating of 2.3 which is very good across 4 parameters, I personally like to see a couple "Excellent" ratings mixed in... But 2.3 is just above their recommended 2 and under range.. says worth buying if the price is right. It's within GIA Excellent candidate range and just outside AGS Ideal candidate range. Now this is just one analysis of the angles and proportions- to me a GIA cut like that for the money sounds like a killer deal- but I'm a beginner so take it with a grain of salt.

Tough to pick a winner isn't it? Regards- John

 

Thanks, John. I should be able to review the first 2.26 in the next day or two. The jeweler told me it did come back an excellent cut but I still don't know the other information so I will plug it in when I do know. (With all my research I never came across that!) I sure hope it is as good or better than the BN one so I can just make a decision and mover forward. I just wonder if the two color grades will make a huge difference!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference "face up" once the diamonds are well set, unless you put them right by each other's side and in a diffused light against a white background. What I'd be more concerned about, seeing as they are both SI2, is whether one is eye clean and the other one is not (at least from some angles/in some lights). Since both diamond's clarity grading characteristics seems to be a cloud, check that it doesn't detract from liveliness/brightness. It may be "invisible" except as - well - a cloudiness/fuzziness in the diamond.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, Did you get the grading report back yet? I'm interested to see how it turned out. Also regarding color there are some very informative video's on www.goodoldgold.com that show the differences in D,E,F and lower- ever so slight but you can tell a difference, but remember they are showing them face down against a flat white background. Face up with the brilliance/ fire/ sparkle it minimizes the color differences to some degree. To me GIA I is about as low as I'd want to go? D,E,F holds too much of a price premium for me (personally). Goodoldgold has other videos as well... great if you are a visual learner.

Again let us know when you get your report- lots of folks following your thread.

Thanks- John NC


John, Southeast NC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this