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John NC

Round Stone- Final Step, Best Compromise? Table, Depth, Clarity And Color Compromise, Iga Vs. Egl

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2.06ISI1GIA61.854.0excexcthn-med8.16x8.21x5.0612922Hi folks...

 

Barry this diamond looks very interesting, saw it represented by your company... didn't see a grading report on there, should I call your office to get more info? Comes in at budget with the wire price. No stats on cut quality (says Ideal if you search for it in the diamond search)- I'm looking for EX cut if GIA, Ideal if AGS. Could be another case of a deep cut diamond if the CA is over 35 and PA over 41- if I have that relationship right. Being SI-1 should it to be eye clean without magnification?

Here's your least expensive under the 'ideal' cut category, which I'm guessing means Ex GIA? This one is under budget, again could be a deep cut or something odd that might impact light return and lower the price.

 

2.01HSI2 GIA No fl. No culet60.8 57 ex ex

 

I might have messed up the transfer of those numbers and stats above, I'll keep searching the site and see what I come up with.

Thanks- John

 

http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/?src=Jim_Survey_01.wmv

Cut video with James Allen...

If the video doesn't come up you can look at Pricescope and you'll see it, goodoldgold has good videos too.

Pretty cool video on Pricescope showing 3 very similar diamonds, just that one has a pavillion angle on the more shallow side, one right on, and one on the deeper side but all within GIA EX standards (I think within). 22 minutes long so sit back and enjoy, was reassuring for me... sitting here thinking that a degree off is going to be the end of me.

 

http://www.diamondvues.com/2004/12/blue_diamonds.html

Great article with photos on fluorescence... it seems (to me) that if you are willing to buck the system a bit you can get a very attractive deal on a medium to strong FL diamond vs no to slight FL... Especially if you pair it with eye clean SI-2 and I or J color. By bucking the system I mean going against the (wrongful) notion that fluorescence is bad or impacts the visual quality of the diamond. Apparently in a small percentage of very strong FL diamonds they can appear a bit milky/ oily/ hazy.

 

http://facetware.gia.edu/

Another cool tool... like the Holloway Cut Adviser probably more of a narrowing down tool than a selecting tool. You plug in the various stats and it gives you a GIA cut grade scale.

 

Back on the hunt... GIA EX/ AGS Ideal here I come...

Edited by John NC

John, Southeast NC

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Hi folks-

Got a new question... what does it mean (GIA) when it says "Cut grade affected by brillianteering?"- this is a new one to me, and is it a biggie? ex polish ex symetry 35 degree crown angle 40.8 pavillion angle... 'very good' cut... with the brillianteering caveat.

Now considering medium and strong blue fluorescence, anybody with an argument against this I'd love to hear it.

Thanks- John


John, Southeast NC

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Long story short - it means that the "minor" facets (which are still more than 50% of the total brilliant surface) have been cut at angles that increase the diamond's weight compared to a standard cut stone. This may or may not be a bad thing from a light reflection/refraction point of view, but if it exceeds a certain extent GIA deducts points from the cut grade since it can negatively affect contrast patterns.

 

See http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/pdf/6_05_RDR_pg239_243pdf.pdf for more details.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Thanks!

Holy cow that's a lot of info... after reading that my thought is to stay away from that (brillianteering)... even though the diamond got ex sym and polish... and very good cut (again GIA).

 

What do you think about this combo (on paper) GIA, 8.49- 8.56 x 5.12, a crown angle of 33 paired with a pavillion angle of 41... table 59 depth 60.1, star length 50% lower halves 75%, thin to medium faceted girdle, no culet, ex cut, ex sym, VG polish? Seems like the only thing off to me is the crown angle and it's a tad shallow? Scored excellent on the GIA facetware test, ex all the way on the HCA (1.1 score).

I know you can never tell until you see it in person- anything jump out at you that would adversely impact the brilliance/ fire?

 

If you have time, this one caught my eye too AGS-0, 56.1 table, 61.5 depth, 33.9 CA, 41 PA, 55 star, 82 lowers, 8.17 - 8.22 x 5.04, can't tell on the girdle, but it's listed 1.6-3.9%? Again scored ex on the GIA facetware software, and ex, ex, vg, vg on the HCA with a 1.3 score. 82 lowers threw me off as most folks recommend between 75 and 80%?

It's amazing what a degree here and 1/10th there can do.

 

I'm very close to picking so any help would be greatly appreciated. I may sleep at night soon- HA!

Thanks! John


John, Southeast NC

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John;

 

If you fill out the Request For More Information on that page we'll get on it pronto. There is no way we can divine how this diamond faces up without calling it in and looking at it.

Edited by barry

Barry
www.exceldiamonds.com
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I like the numbers of the first one more, but the second one looks promising too. It probably will look a bit different and it's not as spready as the first one (assuming equal weight). Having said that, the devil is in the detail - as you have noticed yourself. And there ain't enough details there... (clarity? cut consistency?)

 

BTW - don't think your sleepless nights are over. Now, you need to pick the setting, then invent an original, romantic and possibly unique way to propose, after that you'll need to organize the wedding, write your speech and enjoy the honeymoon (and who sleeps then?); next come kids. You'll sleep well next time when you are aged 62 - by which time you have adapted and don't need that much sleep anymore anyway. You sure you wanna do this??? :)

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Ha ha... yes the details are killers...

 

Man you put it all in perspective in a slightly scary way! - but yeah I do wanna do it and it's time so here goes! Doing this in conjunction with moving out and having my hardwood floors refinished (homeless for a few days), moving back in this weekend, planning my buds bachelor party this weekend and helping him with his wedding next weekend- whew! But I'm sure that pales in comparison to planning your own wedding/ kids etc.

 

Oh and both those diamonds are I color, ex and ideal symetry- respectively, but yeah that doesn't get into the minute details I guess.

Thanks!!!!!!!! John


John, Southeast NC

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Hi guys and gals-

If I take a stone into a local appraiser to be analyzed and checked out, what should I ask for? Should they have an ideal-scope or be able to provide ASET images? If so does anyone know of one in the Southeastern NC/ Wilmington area?

Oh and I know we've all been involved in a debate about fluorescence here (and on Cathy's thread), and I read the GIA report and several other threads about it here and on pricescope... and I'm still a bit scared of the potential change of appearance in certain lighting situations of strong to very strong fluor- BUT my #1 choice right now is STRONG BLUE! everything else being awesome (on paper/ to me) GIA.

So we'll see... I'll give a first hand report. Apparently 1/4 inch thick lexan is a good UV filter when viewing outside, so look at the diamond with and without that above it and see how it changes? And view it in a BUNCH of lighting situations I guess is the key and make sure it's eye pleasing.

Thanks- John


John, Southeast NC

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I believe Neil answered this question for you earlier in detail.


Barry
www.exceldiamonds.com
@Exceldiamonds on Twitter

Excel Diamonds on Facebook

sales@exceldiamonds.com
1-866-829-8600
1-212-921-0635

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Thanks!

I'm very close to picking so any help would be greatly appreciated. I may sleep at night soon- HA!

Thanks! John

 

She will most likely love whatever you pick so don`t stress too much. :D


Bradley @ DBOF.com

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Hi guys and gals... if anybody would like to render an opinion on these stones I'd greatly appreciate it. Any red flags on any of these (on paper)?

 

2.01 GIA 8.1-8.18-4.99 I Si-2,ex,ex,ex, no culet, no fluorescence, thin to medium girdle, 58% table, 61.3% depth 55% uppers 80% lowers, 35 CA, 41.2 PA Scored 3.6 on the HCA, "eye clean" $11,590

 

2.27 GIA 8.49-8.56-5.12 I Si-2 Ex cut VG polish Ex Symmetry, no culet, strong blue fluorescence, 59% table, 60.1 depth, 50% upper, 75% lowers, 33 CA, 41 PA, girdle thin to medium, 1.1 on the HCA "100% eye clean" $10,621

 

2.058 AGS 8.17-8.22-5.04 I Si-2 triple-0 pointed culet 56.1% crown, 61.5% depth 33.9 CA, 41 PA, 55% uppers 82% lowers- 1.6-3.9% girdle, Negligible Fluorescence. Said to be eye clean to most at the office which is a bit scary, 1.3 HCA. $11,950

 

All scored EX on http://www2.gia.edu/facetware/

I'm not selecting based on HCA or GIA Facetware, but I excluded several that had less than stellar scores on both.

 

Thanks- John :wacko:


John, Southeast NC

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John- how about showing us photos of these stones?

If I was you, that's what I'd want to see.

 

An ironic story- and one that might highlight the folly...

A lady picked out a stone from our store.

I purchased the stone for our store- it was an Asscher Cut.

John, the diamond was amazing.

A depth around 58%- so it looked huge for it's weight- and a table around 70%- again, the open top really gives a great show.

By the way, I did not even need to look at the GIA report to know I was in love with the diamnod.

 

The person committed to buy the diamond, then went onto a diamond forum and posted the numbers.

The response was instantaneous.

"IT'S A BAD BAD BAD BAD DIAMOND- WITH THAT TABLE AND DEPTH IT'S GOING TO LOOK TERRIBLE"yada yada yada, I'm paraphrasing.

The buyer actually decided not to purchase that particular diamond, and got something totally different from us.

But if I had the chance to buy 20 Asscher cuts like that one, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

FORGET THE NUMBERS- look at the diamond.

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Out of the three, I like most of the intial proportions of the the 2.05 ct. AGS one. It does have a lot of inventory on the plot diagram, and most of it in the center. Really have to see them in person to get all the visual details

 

It is priced at a pretty good discount for an AGS ideal by the supplier. It could be based on a few things. One the supplier needs to unload a diamond, or two it may be a low SI2 that got a favorable grade. That is the thing about diamonds and grading. Not all SI2`s will look the same.


Bradley @ DBOF.com

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Hi Bradley, Thanks for your input... I like that AGS too, the cutter said eye clean, then asked around and most said that as well, maybe 75%. I'll report back when I see it in person. As Cathy noted the cutter told B.N. a diamond was eye-clean and when she got it there was a glaring inclusion front and center.

 

The GIA 2.27 seems like an unbelievable deal unless there is a glaring flaw (like a milky/ oily appearance in certain lighting situations/ sunlight) or something in the cut that prohibits great light return? But from what I've read about FL. that is extremely unlikely. It's a big diamond for the money and if the fluorescence is the only negative (for valuing purposes) it might be a deal assuming great sparkle/ fire/ brilliance.

The other GIA 2.01 is out with someone for review, so that one may be off the table. Just for my info Bradley which did you think was 2nd on paper?

Thanks! John


John, Southeast NC

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Hi Folks, I added the AGS doc, but had to reduce it a bunch so may not be legible... but I made couple mistake writing down the specs and the right info is (underlined mistakes):

 

33.9 CA, 41 PA, 56.1% crown, 61.5% depth, and down the right side the numbers are: 14.8%, 1.6-3.9%, 43.3%... where I messed up is that the star or upper % number is 53 and I think I wrote 55%, the lower is 82%.

 

Got the stone, and it looks awesome so far, eye clean and using my office magnifying glass I can barely pick out what appear to be a couple internal characteristics... probably 5X magnification. Looks icy clear white, no tint of color as far as I can see.

 

Still waiting on the 2.27 GIA Strong Blue Ex cut. Will report back, if those couple numbers above raise any red flags please let me know.

Thanks, John

post-117356-1237476957_thumb.jpg


John, Southeast NC

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:wacko: merry go-around "numbers."

 

Nothing more to add from here. You have the diamond, examined it, looks "awesome". That' all that matters.


Barry
www.exceldiamonds.com
@Exceldiamonds on Twitter

Excel Diamonds on Facebook

sales@exceldiamonds.com
1-866-829-8600
1-212-921-0635

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Ha! I know Barry.. the numbers nut strikes again.

I just wanted to make sure the info folks were looking at was correct. Waiting on the 2nd to show up. Yikes!

Thanks- John


John, Southeast NC

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Be sure to let us know what your eyes tell you on Diamond # 2.

 

Forget about the "numbers" and better if you post pictures of both diamonds side by side.


Barry
www.exceldiamonds.com
@Exceldiamonds on Twitter

Excel Diamonds on Facebook

sales@exceldiamonds.com
1-866-829-8600
1-212-921-0635

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Ahhh... yes I should have the second stone (2.27 GIA SB, Ex, Vg, Ex, I, SI2) in the AM and will try to snap some photos of both and get them on asap. So far the AGS looks great to me, but I'm just comparing it to what else I've seen in person, going to check it out tonight at home in the dark, candle-lit etc.

Just went by the jeweler to finalize the setting choice, and looked at some IGI 2 carats while I was there, $18K, $20K +... H, I, J color- retail is a bit scary $$$$ wise, to me at least. They were pretty stones though. I can tell they aren't thrilled I'm buying online but couldn't pass up the savings over retail.

I'm sweating and drooling I'm so nervous! HA!

Thanks- John


John, Southeast NC

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Ahhh... yes I should have the second stone (2.27 GIA SB, Ex, Vg, Ex, I, SI2) in the AM and will try to snap some photos of both and get them on asap. So far the AGS looks great to me, but I'm just comparing it to what else I've seen in person, going to check it out tonight at home in the dark, candle-lit etc.

Just went by the jeweler to finalize the setting choice, and looked at some IGI 2 carats while I was there, $18K, $20K +... H, I, J color- retail is a bit scary $$$$ wise, to me at least. They were pretty stones though. I can tell they aren't thrilled I'm buying online but couldn't pass up the savings over retail.

I'm sweating and drooling I'm so nervous! HA!

Thanks- John

 

 

John, I am so glad one of your stones looks like a success!! I have an appraisal tomorrow on my stone so I am hoping to hear good things! I did take photos but wanted to post them when I was sure if I was keeping it. I actually did find a lower price on another site for the stone and WF matched it! Bonus! Can't wait to hear about the other stone!

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Ahhh... yes I should have the second stone (2.27 GIA SB, Ex, Vg, Ex, I, SI2) in the AM and will try to snap some photos of both and get them on asap. So far the AGS looks great to me, but I'm just comparing it to what else I've seen in person, going to check it out tonight at home in the dark, candle-lit etc.

Just went by the jeweler to finalize the setting choice, and looked at some IGI 2 carats while I was there, $18K, $20K +... H, I, J color- retail is a bit scary $$$$ wise, to me at least. They were pretty stones though. I can tell they aren't thrilled I'm buying online but couldn't pass up the savings over retail.

I'm sweating and drooling I'm so nervous! HA!

Thanks- John

 

 

John, I am so glad one of your stones looks like a success!! I have an appraisal tomorrow on my stone so I am hoping to hear good things! I did take photos but wanted to post them when I was sure if I was keeping it. I actually did find a lower price on another site for the stone and WF matched it! Bonus! Can't wait to hear about the other stone!

 

Hi Cathy, Yes so far so good... have you viewed your stone in the dark near candle-light? Brought out a good bit of yellow tint in my AGS I, dont' have the GIA I yet... but I should have it any minute (Fed-ex comes at 10:30 usually)- so I'll repeat the test in a dark corner of the office with both stones side by side. I wonder if the flame imparts a yellow tint. But in bright light and especially under fluorescent lighting the stone is clear as ice, shows no tint of yellow so that's good. Probably beside a "D" I'd see the difference, but in everyday situations looks darn good. I'm starting to wonder if I should have went with a 1.7ish G/H color... but I'm sticking to the plan. Have you looked at your stone under a fluorescent light as the only light source (not UV, just straigh old school fluorescent tubes)? The fire and color show is pretty cool.

Just read your latest post, I'd e-mailed a couple of companies too with no or very slow response, and I too saw diamonds getting snapped up. Katie with Abazias was great to work with, she put a hold on these 2 stones and tried to get a 3rd for me but it sold, and she was very responsive by e-mail and the phone.

I didn't realize this but jewelry stores REALLY want to charge you to set a loose diamond, and I could tell they were a bit put off at first that I didn't buy the diamond through them, but then I'm buying the setting, paying for the mounting, and paying to have the 2 stones evaluated today so I guess they're making out OK. The guy is great and has a great diamond education and sales background so I'm excited for the review.

NERVOUS! GIA 2.27 should be here any minute! Can't wait to see what the big bad strong blue fluorescence does to it, probably nothing, and then if it outperforms the AGS I'll just need to decide if I'm OK with the strong blue fluorescence. Wish it was 'slight'- but then that stone would have been $18K+ probably.

Thanks- John


John, Southeast NC

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OK, got both stones.... the GIA 2.27 definitely faces up a bit bigger than the AGS 2.058... and I took both up onto the balcony in direct high noon sunlight, no oily and hazy appearance out of the GIA strong blue, and they both appear to have the same level of blue fire (as well as other colors). In FL lighting (not UV) they both sparkle like mad.

I've attached a couple photos, but it's hard to capture what's going on.

With my hands cupped around them, shaded the AGS seems to have an ever so slight edge in brilliance maybe? But maybe 5%. Cupped with hands/ shaded the GIA seems to have more visually eviden arrows. Crown is wider so maybe the larger 'window' in to see the arrows helps that effect. 59% crown on the 2.27 and 56.1% crown on the AGS 2.058.

 

A cool effect is holding something shiny and black above them to shade them from the diffused sunlight and fluorescent office lighting- lots going on.

Anyways, any opinions? Remember the larger GIA is a savings of $1,322 over the AGS.

 

For some reason the pics won't upload... but they look the same in the photos, just the GIA is a bit larger. I'll try again later.

Thanks- John

Edited by John NC

John, Southeast NC

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Ahhh... yes I should have the second stone (2.27 GIA SB, Ex, Vg, Ex, I, SI2) in the AM and will try to snap some photos of both and get them on asap. So far the AGS looks great to me, but I'm just comparing it to what else I've seen in person, going to check it out tonight at home in the dark, candle-lit etc.

Just went by the jeweler to finalize the setting choice, and looked at some IGI 2 carats while I was there, $18K, $20K +... H, I, J color- retail is a bit scary $$$$ wise, to me at least. They were pretty stones though. I can tell they aren't thrilled I'm buying online but couldn't pass up the savings over retail.

I'm sweating and drooling I'm so nervous! HA!

Thanks- John

 

 

John, I am so glad one of your stones looks like a success!! I have an appraisal tomorrow on my stone so I am hoping to hear good things! I did take photos but wanted to post them when I was sure if I was keeping it. I actually did find a lower price on another site for the stone and WF matched it! Bonus! Can't wait to hear about the other stone!

 

Hi Cathy, Yes so far so good... have you viewed your stone in the dark near candle-light? Brought out a good bit of yellow tint in my AGS I, dont' have the GIA I yet... but I should have it any minute (Fed-ex comes at 10:30 usually)- so I'll repeat the test in a dark corner of the office with both stones side by side. I wonder if the flame imparts a yellow tint. But in bright light and especially under fluorescent lighting the stone is clear as ice, shows no tint of yellow so that's good. Probably beside a "D" I'd see the difference, but in everyday situations looks darn good. I'm starting to wonder if I should have went with a 1.7ish G/H color... but I'm sticking to the plan. Have you looked at your stone under a fluorescent light as the only light source (not UV, just straigh old school fluorescent tubes)? The fire and color show is pretty cool.

Just read your latest post, I'd e-mailed a couple of companies too with no or very slow response, and I too saw diamonds getting snapped up. Katie with Abazias was great to work with, she put a hold on these 2 stones and tried to get a 3rd for me but it sold, and she was very responsive by e-mail and the phone.

I didn't realize this but jewelry stores REALLY want to charge you to set a loose diamond, and I could tell they were a bit put off at first that I didn't buy the diamond through them, but then I'm buying the setting, paying for the mounting, and paying to have the 2 stones evaluated today so I guess they're making out OK. The guy is great and has a great diamond education and sales background so I'm excited for the review.

NERVOUS! GIA 2.27 should be here any minute! Can't wait to see what the big bad strong blue fluorescence does to it, probably nothing, and then if it outperforms the AGS I'll just need to decide if I'm OK with the strong blue fluorescence. Wish it was 'slight'- but then that stone would have been $18K+ probably.

Thanks- John

 

Dying to hear. Where do I go for Flour lighting - a dept. store? I plan to do that this weekend! I will be checking back and will fill you in on appraisal! Oh, I will also do the candlelight test also!

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I suspect a D stone would show up yellow under candlelight...

 

Re: the UV light - http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksi...-All-Categories

 

ETA: John - from an outsider who hasn't seen either stone, it seems to me that you are attracted by the GIA's size and you can't really see the difference (if any - I don't know!) in light performance from the AGS. Go with the GIA and save or put the change on the setting or a pair of earrings.

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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