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Reasonable Pricing


stevequeens
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Background: my gf used to work at a (very reputable) jewelry store. I'm going to propose now so I went to one of her former colleagues who is a friend of hers. She showed me some diamonds. While I believe she wants to offer me a deal -- well, offer my gf a deal -- the prices seem very low vs. similar stats on bluenile so I want to make sure this makes sense.

 

1.5ct G VVS2 Excellent Cut/Excellent Symetry, Hearts on Fire, AGS $9950

1.07ct G VVS2 Excellent Cut/Excellent Symetry, Hearts on Fire, AGS $5950

 

These prices seem much lower than those listed on BlueNile. Am I getting a deal or missing something?

Thanks!

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Are these branded Hearts on Fire? The prices seem way too low to be genuine for a top-quality cut as HoF. The 1.5 in particular is nearly half the online retail price, which on a $15-20k stone is not a "friends' discount" or even an employee's discount. It's no profit by a fairly long shot. I can only assume one of two things:

 

1. The economy is such that bargains are beginning to appear - perhaps the jeweller is having cash flow problems.

2. Something is not quite what it seems. Perhaps she misquoted the prices, or the descriptions aren't correct.

 

Have you seen the reports that come with the diamonds?

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Obviously the prices look very good on the surface and I would certainly consider moving on to the next step if this is what you're looking for. There's something highly suspicious here. The prices you quote are WAY below the HoF dealer costs and the description doesn't quite ring right. Although it's correct that there are some jewelers who are suffering right now and who might offer up a good deal on stones just to get their money out, HoF has a reasonably well connected dealer network and I would be surprised to see one of them dumping a stone to the public for less than they could expect to get from another one of the dealers. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Although AGSL uses the word 'excellent' on their reports to describe cut symmetry and polish, it's not the top of the scale and HoF likes stones with top marks.

 

My theories (in no particular order and not necessarily all or even any of these apply):

 

1) It's not HoF. It's something that someone says is comparable. HoF consistently makes pretty nice goods, and they have competitors who do as well but there's a whole lot more to a good stone than what you've listed and if it's some generic provider's idea of hearts and arrows I would seriously question both that claim and unlisted details that would go unsaid in a genuine HoF but that may be a problem elsewhere.

 

2) It's not AGS graded but rather some other lab that someone thinks is 'comparable'. This is a big deal.

 

3) It's secondary market. By this I mean that it's not coming through the HoF dealer network but rather a private party seller. Individuals can sell their stuff if they want and there's certainly no problem with buying them but there are a whole host of problems you need to be wary of that you have brushed aside because the store is 'very reputable' and obviously wouldn't apply if it's a they aren't actually the seller. A friend of a former employee is a pretty thin connection.

 

4) There's simply a reporting error in the description, pricing or both.

 

My advice:

 

Double check your 'facts' and assuming the offer still stands, hire your own expert appraiser, someone who isn't trying to sell you something other than their expert advice and who specifically is not affiliated with the seller to inspect the stones you're considering along with the related reports.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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Background: my gf used to work at a (very reputable) jewelry store. I'm going to propose now so I went to one of her former colleagues who is a friend of hers. She showed me some diamonds. While I believe she wants to offer me a deal -- well, offer my gf a deal -- the prices seem very low vs. similar stats on bluenile so I want to make sure this makes sense.

 

1.5ct G VVS2 Excellent Cut/Excellent Symetry, Hearts on Fire, AGS $9950

1.07ct G VVS2 Excellent Cut/Excellent Symetry, Hearts on Fire, AGS $5950

 

These prices seem much lower than those listed on BlueNile. Am I getting a deal or missing something?

Thanks!

 

 

You could be missing something on the price. For hearts on fire, those sound like prices per carat versus for the stone.

Especially in the 1.5 ct. G VVS2 price. So for instance if it is a price per carat price the 1.5 ct. is really running $14,925 for the stone and the 1.07 ct. is running $6366 for the stone. These prices make more sense.

I guess you will find out when you get your check book out to pay. If they really are HOF stones and it's not a price per carat, I would go for the 1.5 ct. :)

Edited by jan
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You guys were right. I wrote down the wrong information. The 1.5ct stone actually has a EGL cert (European Gem Lab) rather than AGS cert.

 

It has the following stats:

Depth: 61.6%

Table: 57%

Crown: 15%

Pavilion: 43%

Girdle: Medium, Faceted

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Clarity: VS2

Color: G

 

Comments:

-8 Hearts & 8 Arrows

-"Excellent Ideal Cut"

 

 

So does the pricing make more sense?

Should I go with an AGS or GIA diamond instead?

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That changes (almost) everything. The diamond could be graded as G/VS2 by EGL (particularly if it's an EGL-International rather than an EGL-US report), but could end up being an I-SI1 according to GIA. In which case, the price starts to make more sense.

 

It's still not clear from your post whether it's a branded diamond ("Hearts on Fire" is a specific brand with high standards of cut quality which charges a fairly hefty premium for that) or if it's a generic "Hearts & Arrows" (which means relatively little).

 

Does it make it a bad stone? Not necessarily - in fact the proportions seem good, and particularly when set you may have a hard time telling an I/SI1 from a G/VS2 (and you may like the I more anyway). IdealScope/ASET images could help in making up your mind and benchmarking it against others, but utlimately only someone who looks at it can answer the "quality" question with any degree of certainty. Decide if you want to trust that dealer, or if you want to select another expert (appraiser, friend, another jeweller) to help you in the search.

 

Re: GIA/AGS vs the rest: with a GIA or AGS report, you are certain that the colour and clarity (and simmetry, polish) grades are as accurate as they can be. Other labs can be much softer, and as such the price tends to reflect more the dealer's estimate of the grade than what is written on the paper. However, you aren't buying a grading report; you are buying a diamond. Only you can decide if having a reliable grading report is a must, or if you are prepared to ignore to some extent the report and trust your taste and judgment. One thing you should bear in mind: this is a very transparently priced market, and there are very few (if any) bargains, particularly for round near-colourless diamonds.

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http://www.heartsonfire.com/#/us/en-us/per...rialization.php

 

You'll probably need a microscope to see it, but if it isn't there I'd be suspicious (it's easy to erase it, but I don't see why anyone should).

 

Also, use the jeweller finder to see if your jeweller is an authorised HoF retailer

 

http://www.heartsonfire.com/#/us/en-us/find-diamond-jeweler/

 

But the real question is - does it make a difference to you if it's HoF or not???

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http://www.heartsonfire.com/#/us/en-us/per...rialization.php

 

You'll probably need a microscope to see it, but if it isn't there I'd be suspicious (it's easy to erase it, but I don't see why anyone should).

 

Also, use the jeweller finder to see if your jeweller is an authorised HoF retailer

 

http://www.heartsonfire.com/#/us/en-us/find-diamond-jeweler/

 

But the real question is - does it make a difference to you if it's HoF or not???

 

 

No, I don't care if it's HoF. I just want to find out whether or not this diamond in particular is HoF. If it's not, them I'm not sure I want to place much trust in this person's advice on any other subject.

 

I just want to buy a high quality diamond and a reasonable price and know that I'm not being taken.

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Here's my other question. If the diamond is an EGL with the following stats (1.5ct G VVS2 Excellent Cut/Excellent Symmetry Depth: 61.6%; Table: 57%; Crown: 15%; Pavilion: 43%; Girdle: Medium, Faceted) and another knowledgeable person agrees that those are accurate ratings...would $9950 be a good price?

 

Thanks.

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It's a fair online price, therefore it's a pretty good price from a B&M store.

 

The question to me is: since there are diamonds with those same characteristics (except for the EGL grading) that cost nearly twice as much, but a GIA report is about $200 including shipping back and forth, why is that?

 

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Round_D...ond-292190.html

 

I've got to doubt someone's accuracy in describing the diamond, and it's not GIA...

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