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Comparing 2 Diamonds


icebergtec
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Hello Aging, group:

 

I have received informations on two diamonds from an online retailer (recommended by this site). Both of the pieces come with GIA certificates (attached). The pieces are of equal size (1.01) and cost the same ($5,775).

 

Which piece do you guys think has the best cut? which is more important, an excellent polish with very good symmetry or an excellent symmetry with very good polish? These are one of the distinctions between the two. Also, based on the information at hand, is this a fair price?

 

I appreciate all your feedback. Thanks a bunch, in advance.

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Polish vs. symmetry is a fairly irrelevant contest, as long as both are "good" or above. You are unlikely to see with the unaided eye differences above that grade.

 

Cut-wise, the only reliable measuring tool at this point is a pair of eyes - preferably yours. Both are graded "excellent cut" by GIA, which means neither is likely to be a complete dud. The second one (report # ending 6404) has more "classical" proportions, but that means relatively little - first of all because the info on the report is insufficient to do any serious analysis of cut, and secondly because there is no accounting for taste.

 

Fair price: similar diamonds (GIA-graded, 1.01 G/VS2 rounds) are offered between $3500 and $7000. Since these are reasonably well cut diamonds, I'd say the price is fair. Can you do better? Possibly, but also consider the value of the whole package (trade-in/repurchase/upgrade/warranty; availability of setting and quality of workmanship...)

 

BTW - if you are seriously looking at stones available online, I'd consider putting them on hold with the retailer until you decide or disguising info such as the GIA report number prior to posting it, since other people may exploit the work you have done in finding good stones at a reasonable price.

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Hello Davidelevi:

 

I just want to say thank you for your feedback to my question. I truly appreciate it.

 

Anything else I should care to inquire about, besides what you've already mentioned?

 

 

Polish vs. symmetry is a fairly irrelevant contest, as long as both are "good" or above. You are unlikely to see with the unaided eye differences above that grade.

 

Cut-wise, the only reliable measuring tool at this point is a pair of eyes - preferably yours. Both are graded "excellent cut" by GIA, which means neither is likely to be a complete dud. The second one (report # ending 6404) has more "classical" proportions, but that means relatively little - first of all because the info on the report is insufficient to do any serious analysis of cut, and secondly because there is no accounting for taste.

 

Fair price: similar diamonds (GIA-graded, 1.01 G/VS2 rounds) are offered between $3500 and $7000. Since these are reasonably well cut diamonds, I'd say the price is fair. Can you do better? Possibly, but also consider the value of the whole package (trade-in/repurchase/upgrade/warranty; availability of setting and quality of workmanship...)

 

BTW - if you are seriously looking at stones available online, I'd consider putting them on hold with the retailer until you decide or disguising info such as the GIA report number prior to posting it, since other people may exploit the work you have done in finding good stones at a reasonable price.

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You are welcome, Icebergtec.

 

My only additional comment is about the (unavoidable) tradeoff between budget (cost) and the other 4 C's.

 

You have gone for a "safe" combination of G/VS2 and just over 1 carat. If you were to reduce the size by a little (below the magical 1.00), you could save something to put towards the setting, a wedding band or a pair of earrings (or something for yourself) while getting a stone that visually is not all that easy to tell from your original choice. On the other hand, if you pick a truly well cut stone, going down to J or even K (and SI1 or even SI2) would enable you to get a larger stone - if that's important to you (and your FI) - and again have limited visual impact on perceived colour and clarity.

 

Having said that, if you have already explored alternatives and decided this is the best trade-off for you, ignore all of the above.

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David,

 

Great point. In fact, I was just about to post a question on another piece the online jeweler sent to me. This seems to be a better cut quality...GIA excellent polist and symmetry. I will also post it, new.

 

Here are the details. I would appreciate any feedback.

 

1.02 Carat

GIA Cert

Round Brilliant

"Select Ideal" Cut (Dealer's choice)

G

VS2

Excellent Polish

Excellent Symmetry

Fluorescence: None

Total Depth: 61%

Table Diameter: 59%

Crown Angle: 34

Crown Height: 13.5%

Pavilion Angle: 41.4%

Pavilion Depth: 44.0%

 

Price: $6,096

 

What do you guys think of these specs? And the price. Does this seems like a good value?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Hum. To be honest, purely based on the numbers I still like best the second report you had on your first post. But you are not buying a piece of paper, are you?

 

In terms of value, it's not an unfair price, but we go back to the point I made above - to judge whether it's worth the extra $350, you need a pair of eyes. Denominations such as "Select Ideal" mean absolutely nothing unless you can trust who provides them (and they are prepared to explain them to you).

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David,

 

What makes the second report more appealing to you than this recent description (on paper)? I figured that since this piece is both excellent in symmetry and polish

compared to the second report, which is only excellent in polish, but very good in symmetry, that this piece would be deemed a better cut. Please enlighten me in your analysis and or observation.

 

Thanks again.

 

By the way, I am working with Uniondiamonds. Anyone has experience with them (good or bad)? They don't have an upgrade policy. Is this typically, extremely important? Should it be a deal breaker?

I've never buy a diamond. And I don't know whether an upgrade will be in the future.

 

Hum. To be honest, purely based on the numbers I still like best the second report you had on your first post. But you are not buying a piece of paper, are you?

 

In terms of value, it's not an unfair price, but we go back to the point I made above - to judge whether it's worth the extra $350, you need a pair of eyes. Denominations such as "Select Ideal" mean absolutely nothing unless you can trust who provides them (and they are prepared to explain them to you).

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David,

 

What makes the second report more appealing to you than this recent description (on paper)? I figured that since this piece is both excellent in symmetry and polish

compared to the second report, which is only excellent in polish, but very good in symmetry, that this piece would be deemed a better cut. Please enlighten me in your analysis and or observation.

 

Thanks again.

 

By the way, I am working with Uniondiamonds. Anyone has experience with them (good or bad)? They don't have an upgrade policy. Is this typically, extremely important? Should it be a deal breaker?

I've never buy a diamond. And I don't know whether an upgrade will be in the future.

 

Symmetry and polish are a composite of many sub-categories, and particularly on polish the difference between very good and excellent can be totally insignificant in terms of how the diamond looks with the naked eye. The crucial point in diamond cut is proportions, particularly crown and pavillion angles (and their consistency across all the facets). While the report only lists the rounded average of the angles, seeing a pavillion angle steeper than 41.2 is a warning signal.

 

But I'll say it again - you aren't buying the paper. And there is no way to evaluate how the diamond will look in reality by looking at the report. I'll try an analogy: it's a bit like wanting a fast accelerating RWD car, and having access only to info on the size of its rear tyres and engine cc: which one would you bet on between 185/60 R14, 1998 cc and 345/30 R19, 8382 cc?

 

Well, you are probably wrong. 0-60 for the first one is 2.89 seconds, for the second 3.70...

Edited by davidelevi
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Hello Davidelevi,

 

thanks for the continuing response to my inquiries. I heed your suggestions, and ask for a piece slightly smaller than the "magical" 1 carat.

She sent me a .90 for $4,400 wired or $4,530 CC...almost 2 grand less than the 1 carat...WOW.

 

I know these numbers don't mean as much to experienced guys as us novices deem them to be. But in any case, here are the details.

 

 

Certificate: GIA Shape: RoundCut: Select Idealâ„¢Carat: 0.90Color: FClarity: VS1Regular Price: $4589Wire Transfer Price: $4455 Diamond Proportions:Measurements: 6.15-6.14-3.86 Depth Percentage: 62.8 %Table Percentage: 56 %Girdle: M-STKCulet: None (Pointed)Polish: ExcellentSymmetry: ExcellentFluorescence: None (Inert)java script:ShowGlossary(Any thought?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

David,

 

What makes the second report more appealing to you than this recent description (on paper)? I figured that since this piece is both excellent in symmetry and polish

compared to the second report, which is only excellent in polish, but very good in symmetry, that this piece would be deemed a better cut. Please enlighten me in your analysis and or observation.

 

Thanks again.

 

By the way, I am working with Uniondiamonds. Anyone has experience with them (good or bad)? They don't have an upgrade policy. Is this typically, extremely important? Should it be a deal breaker?

I've never buy a diamond. And I don't know whether an upgrade will be in the future.

 

Symmetry and polish are a composite of many sub-categories, and particularly on polish the difference between very good and excellent can be totally insignificant in terms of how the diamond looks with the naked eye. The crucial point in diamond cut is proportions, particularly crown and pavillion angles (and their consistency across all the facets). While the report only lists the rounded average of the angles, seeing a pavillion angle steeper than 41.2 is a warning signal.

 

But I'll say it again - you aren't buying the paper. And there is no way to evaluate how the diamond will look in reality by looking at the report. I'll try an analogy: it's a bit like wanting a fast accelerating RWD car, and having access only to info on the size of its rear tyres and engine cc: which one would you bet on between 185/60 R14, 1998 cc and 345/30 R19, 8382 cc?

 

Well, you are probably wrong. 0-60 for the first one is 2.89 seconds, for the second 3.70...

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Hello Brad,

 

Thanks for the input. Could you make a recommendation? If you could, I would appreciate it.

 

thanks in advance,

 

I think for the money there are some better picks available than number three for sure.

 

For the 6k you can get a GIA triple Excellent with sweet proportions and top light return.

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Hello Davidelevi,

 

thanks for the continuing response to my inquiries. I heed your suggestions, and ask for a piece slightly smaller than the "magical" 1 carat.

She sent me a .90 for $4,400 wired or $4,530 CC...almost 2 grand less than the 1 carat...WOW.

 

I know these numbers don't mean as much to experienced guys as us novices deem them to be. But in any case, here are the details.

 

 

Certificate: GIA Shape: RoundCut: Select Idealâ„¢Carat: 0.90Color: FClarity: VS1Regular Price: $4589Wire Transfer Price: $4455 Diamond Proportions:Measurements: 6.15-6.14-3.86 Depth Percentage: 62.8 %Table Percentage: 56 %Girdle: M-STKCulet: None (Pointed)Polish: ExcellentSymmetry: ExcellentFluorescence: None (Inert)java script:ShowGlossary(Any thought?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

OK, there's even less on this one than the other three.

 

1. Cut grading evaluation on RB from anyone other than GIA or AGSL is worth the paper it's written on - meaning, if you can trust them, it's jolly good, otherwise recycle the paper. Only you can decide whether to trust people that drop-ship without ever seeing the diamond or where a small number of staff processes gazillions of stones every day. Research the dealer as well as (or before than) the stone.

 

GIA and AGSL cut grades aren't necessarily telling you too much either, but at least they are issued on the basis of research and in a reasonably consistent way by people that haven't got a vested interest in a specific stone (differently from dealer-issued grades).

 

2. GIA cut grades go from high to low: Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor. AGSL uses a 0-10 scale, with the same 5 denominations for each pairs of numbers 1-10 (Excellent: 1-2, ...), plus the denomination "Ideal" for grade 0 (the best). Any other label on cut means... going back to point 1.

 

3. No crown or pavillion angles means this time you're trying to assess the car's performance knowing that one is red, the other is blue. B)

 

ETA: missed that the diamond was GIA-graded first time around

Edited by davidelevi
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Additional Date for new piece:

 

Crown angle - 36

Crown Height - 16.0%

Pavilion Angle - 41

Pavilion Height - 43.5

Depth % - 62.8

Table % - 56

 

Based on the numbers alone, how does it compare?

 

Thanks again,

 

Hello Davidelevi,

 

thanks for the continuing response to my inquiries. I heed your suggestions, and ask for a piece slightly smaller than the "magical" 1 carat.

She sent me a .90 for $4,400 wired or $4,530 CC...almost 2 grand less than the 1 carat...WOW.

 

I know these numbers don't mean as much to experienced guys as us novices deem them to be. But in any case, here are the details.

 

 

Certificate: GIA Shape: RoundCut: Select Idealâ„¢Carat: 0.90Color: FClarity: VS1Regular Price: $4589Wire Transfer Price: $4455 Diamond Proportions:Measurements: 6.15-6.14-3.86 Depth Percentage: 62.8 %Table Percentage: 56 %Girdle: M-STKCulet: None (Pointed)Polish: ExcellentSymmetry: ExcellentFluorescence: None (Inert)java script:ShowGlossary(Any thought?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

OK, there's even less on this one than the other three.

 

1. Cut grading evaluation on RB from anyone other than GIA or AGSL is worth the paper it's written on - meaning, if you can trust them, it's jolly good, otherwise recycle the paper. Only you can decide whether to trust people that drop-ship without ever seeing the diamond or where a small number of staff processes gazillions of stones every day. Research the dealer as well as (or before than) the stone.

 

GIA and AGSL cut grades aren't necessarily telling you too much either, but at least they are issued on the basis of research and in a reasonably consistent way by people that haven't got a vested interest in a specific stone (differently from dealer-issued grades).

 

2. GIA cut grades go from high to low: Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor. AGSL uses a 0-10 scale, with the same 5 denominations for each pairs of numbers 1-10 (Excellent: 1-2, ...), plus the denomination "Ideal" for grade 0 (the best). Any other label on cut means... going back to point 1.

 

3. No crown or pavillion angles means this time you're trying to assess the car's performance knowing that one is red, the other is blue. B)

 

ETA: missed that the diamond was GIA-graded first time around

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Again, based on rear tyre sizes and engine cc, I keep liking the second stone best. Crown of this latest one is steep and it's a deep stone - meaning it faces a little small for the weight. Again - it means relatively little in terms of what you (or your FI) may like, and on how the stone itself will perform compared to the other three.

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