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Good Price For This Diamond??


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Hi all,

 

im new this forum and also dont know much about diamonds. I need some help.

 

I have the following specs on the stone im looking at::

 

.41 points. G color SI1 Clarity

 

Polishing: excellent

Symmetry: very good

Cut: Very good

Fluorescence: None

 

GIA certified, with laser engraving for serial number. Hearts and Arrow diamond.

 

 

im getting this diamond for $1500. It has a GIA certificate also. When I looked at the stone it looked very white and was also shining quite a bit. I did look through the loop and saw the arrows and hearts. Am I getting a good price for this stone? Are there other factors I should be looking at to determine if this diamond is good for the price?

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Use the "Find online jeweller" button and enter the diamond specs for a guideline on prices.

 

I've just done that, and prices for a 0.41/G/SI1 GIA-graded stone go from $577 to $984

 

A couple of reliable vendors that select stones for excellent cut have similar stones listed for well below $1000.

 

Even assuming your price is in CAD rather than USD, and that you are buying it from a "brick and mortar" jeweller rather than online, that still makes the stone expensive in my view.

 

ETA: bear in mind there is no duty over loose diamonds imported to Canada - although you will have to pay GST and other taxes as if you were to buy the diamond locally.

Edited by davidelevi
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You can get the same thing or better on-line for 1/2 the price i.e.; a VS clarity for less money than your quote on the SI-1. The money you save will pay for the setting. Plus several on-line Vendors will personally evaluate and examine the diamond before you have to purchase.

 

A no-brainer IMO

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Use the "Find online jeweller" button and enter the diamond specs for a guideline on prices.

 

I've just done that, and prices for a 0.41/G/SI1 GIA-graded stone go from $577 to $984

 

A couple of reliable vendors that select stones for excellent cut have similar stones listed for well below $1000.

 

Even assuming your price is in CAD rather than USD, and that you are buying it from a "brick and mortar" jeweller rather than online, that still makes the stone expensive in my view.

 

ETA: bear in mind there is no duty over loose diamonds imported to Canada - although you will have to pay GST and other taxes as if you were to buy the diamond locally.

 

I went to a Jeweller in Montreal, and the prices were in CDN. Can you also tell me what are other points I should be looking at when buying a diamond aside from the ones I listed above? This stone was a hearts and Diamond, does that make it worth more?

Is it true that GIA only certifies diamonds that are over 1 carat? IF so, then how is this stone certified by GIA. maybe the certificate is fake? Any insight about that?

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GIA will grade "colourless" stones above 0.15 ct; it's unlikely that people will send diamonds below ~0.33 ct because of the cost/value. Here's their scale of fees:

 

http://www.gia.edu/gemtradelab/31548/fees.cfm

 

You can verify a GIA report here - you'll need the weight and the report number:

 

http://www.gia.edu/reportcheck/

 

If any jeweller told you that GIA only grades stones above a carat, that's a good sign to avoid that store.

 

Re: H&A - it's a relatively meaningless description. It's possibly an indication of good care being taken in cutting the stone, but not necessarily. It's only worth more if it's well cut; there are well cut H&A and poorly cut H&A, same for non-H&A.

 

In terms of what's important to know - it's a huge subject, and I certainly don't know it all. I think the two most important things are:

 

1. Get your priorities straight - what do you expect to get, and how much do you have to spend

2. Choose who to trust - see above...

Edited by davidelevi
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GIA will grade "colourless" stones above 0.15 ct; it's unlikely that people will send diamonds below ~0.33 ct because of the cost/value. Here's their scale of fees:

 

http://www.gia.edu/gemtradelab/31548/fees.cfm

 

You can verify a GIA report here - you'll need the weight and the report number:

 

http://www.gia.edu/reportcheck/

 

If any jeweller told you that GIA only grades stones above a carat, that's a good sign to avoid that store.

 

Re: H&A - it's a relatively meaningless description. It's possibly an indication of good care being taken in cutting the stone, but not necessarily. It's only worth more if it's well cut; there are well cut H&A and poorly cut H&A, same for non-H&A.

 

In terms of what's important to know - it's a huge subject, and I certainly don't know it all. I think the two most important things are:

 

1. Get your priorities straight - what do you expect to get, and how much do you have to spend

2. Choose who to trust - see above...

 

 

Hi all,

 

here are the exact specs for the diamond of .41 carats. is it a good deal? if not, what should I be concentrating on to get a nicer more brilliant diamond.??

 

it is GIA certified, and here are the specs::

 

4.77- 4.79 x 2.95mm

color: G

clarity SI1

Cut grade: very good

 

Proportions::

depth : 61.7% (is this in the range??)

table: 55% (is this in the range??)

crown angle: 34.5 degrees

 

crown height 15.5%

pavillion angle 40.8

pavillion depth 43.0

 

Gridle thin-medium faceted (is this good?)

 

Cutlet : none

Polish Excellent

Symmetry: very good

Flouresence: None

 

Clarity characteristics : crystal, Cloud

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"Good deal" relative to what? At $250 it's a steal. At $1250 you can do better. In terms of "brilliance", GIA has four categories of cut grade and this stone is not in the top one - this should already tell you something. But you already knew that, since it seems these are the full details of the stone you posted about at first, and you have had three people here all giving you a consistent message.

 

Beware of fixed "recipes" for diamonds, particularly simplistic ones based on a couple of parameters. The numbers for depth and table percentages that you have are within many recommended ranges for "excellent cut", however they don't tell the whole story. Partly because there's numbers which are more critical (such as pavillion and crown angles - which again are "OK" in this stone), partly because diamond optics involve all 57 facets, and cannot be captured fully in 4 (or 10) numbers.

 

I'll try to explain in more detail - this is going to be tedious to follow through, but perhaps it will help

 

Take a cross section of a round brilliant cut vertically through the middle of one of the pavillion main facets: it's a trapezium (the crown, with the table as the top) on top of a triangle (the pavillion, assuming there's no culet) - we'll ignore the girdle for the moment. This is the sketch that you see on many diamond sites, including this one, with the ray of light entering the table and "falling through" if the proportions are wrong. Note that since the majority of light enters the stone from above, the angle that matters most is the pavillion angle, followed by the crown angle. But if the pavillion angles are made shallower, a deeper crown can compensate and viceversa - the two parameters work together, as a system. This is one of the reasons why there's little point in asking "should the depth be lower than x?" or other similar questions focusing on one dimension at a time. It makes only sense relative to the rest of the diamond.

 

Now, consider what happens if the light ray is moved so that it doesn't go through the diamond in the plane that we are looking at, but another plane. For example, a plane that cuts through the middle of another pavillion main. Nothing changes, right? Same cross-section figure, the ray of light behaves the same way. That is correct as long as the angles are exactly the same, however even minor deviations will result in a different behaviour, causing that same ray of light to go "out" of the pavillion instead of being bounced back to your eye.

 

How minor is "minor"? Well, GIA rounds angle measurements to 0.2 degrees; over the depth of a 0.4 ct diamond (~3mm) that is equivalent to 0.01 mm, roughly one tenth of a human hair's thickness - small enough? Not really, when you consider that each "ray" of visible light is only about 1/20 of that size (QED experts all over the world, have pity on me). So less than a 0.2 degrees difference means that the cutter has to work with a precision greater than 0.01 mm, but that still leaves some room for light to come and go as it pleases. All this is borne out by practical observation: a 0.2 degree difference in pavillion angle does make a significant difference in the way the stone looks. In addition, bear in mind that what GIA (or AGS) report is the average of the measurement across all 8 pavillion mains - depending on how careful the cutter is, variations of 0.5 degrees or more could happen, observed but unreported by the lab. So, while knowing the average +/- 0.2 degrees is a rough indication of whether the angle is at least in the ballpark, it's no substitute for looking at the diamond, since the reported angle may not actually exist at all anywhere in the diamond!

 

Then let's introduce one further complication: so far, we have cut the diamond along the middle of the pavillion mains. But what if we cut it somewhere else? Well, to begin with the shape of our cross section changes - now there's an irregular enneagon on top of an irregular pentagon (Table/Star Facet/Kite/Upper Girdle Facet/ideal girdle line/UGF/K/SF/T on top of Lower Girdle Facet/Pavillion Main/PM/LGF/ideal girdle line). This means four internal angles instead of two, for which there are no measurements at all; and these will vary much in the same way as the main angles vary. These aren't taken into account at all by the school of "all you need to know is these four numbers", but the area - and thus the light behaviour - covered by "secondary" facets (i.e. upper/lower girdles and stars) is nearly 50% of the diamond's surface.

 

Now, we left the girdle, the culet and any inclusions out, and we haven't dealt with simmetry and balance of reflection with refraction, but I hope that's enough of an academic excursus into why the information provided on grading reports is not enough, and why "a golden rule" for each number is meaningless. You can use them to weed out the least likely candidates (even though some unlikely combinations can still produce lovely stones, by picking the most likely combinations you are decreasing the risk of the stone being a dud), but to make a final call you MUST look at the stones or trust an expert (jeweller? appraiser? friend?) to do that for you.

 

If you are still awake, here's my view on your other question: ignore girdle finish and ignore girdle size as long as it's not including extremes (extremely thin or thick) or very irregular (very thin to very thick, for example).

 

One final observation: since the grading inclusion is a crystal - make sure it is not something that is visible from the top of the stone. You can only tell if it is by looking at the diamond - there is no other way.

 

I'll repeat the advice already given - choose who to trust (dealer or appraiser) and ask for their help in sorting things out before you start diving in detail into stone choice. That's part of their task, and the reason why they are being paid.

Edited by davidelevi
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