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HeXeD

First Time, Robbins Bros, Aig Cert, Scary

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Ok, this is my first post, I haven't been registered for too long but I have been browsing this forum for over a month now soaking up pretty much everything I can (along with other sites as well.)

 

Here is my deal

 

What ring I want:

3 Stone 18K White Gold for 3 princess cut diamonds. Preferably .25 on the sides and a .75 or so in the middle. Budget is about 3500 give or take.

 

The Diamond I want:

Carat: 0.73-0.78

Color: D-H

Clarity: VS1-IF

Cut: Ideal-Very Good

Florescence: None

 

 

There is currently 1 diamond that peaks my interests at Robbins Bros. I know I know, the Target of diamond stores. This one is located in Dallas TX by the Galleria. First I have to say I am very happy with their sales tactics so far. The guy isn't presuring me. He said if I can find a better deal on a better diamond somewhere else, to go for it. That he would have me come in during the week and for an hour or so look at several different diamonds so I am better prepared. Not pushy at all and very nice. Now about the diamond:

 

Price: 2450$

Cert Lab: AIG

Carat: 0.76

Color: I/J

Clarity: VVS2

Cut: Wall Cut?

Florescence: None

Measurements: 5.2 x 5.03 x 3.56mm

Table: 79%

Depth: 70.8%

 

Additional Info I have not heard of:

 

Crown Height: 7%

Pavillion Depth %: 60.2

 

 

Ok here is where the questions and concerns come in:

 

1. First question without knowing anything else.. Is this a deal? Horrible Deal? Lukewarm? Would you go for it if you were impressed by the diamond?

 

2. I was looking for something better than J color, preferably G-H. Am I going to notice that much from a G to a I?

 

3. The cert is from AIG. I know that many people hear scoff at that lab but the guy at Robbins bros says they use them because they do not need to pay 75-100$ for each diamond's cert. I told him I was pretty specific about getting a GIA certified diamond. He said that they would have no problem sending the diamond I buy off to GIA to have them cert it. They said in 2-3 weeks they could have it back certified for an extra 75$. He said that if it came back and it was not the exact same specs as the AIG or better, then they would refund the money for everything, including the money for the cert. It sounds like he was very positive about what they had, and he said that in his time there he has seen several people request the GIA cert which they have yet to see one come back contradicting what they are seeing in their AIG certs. Sounds like a pretty good garauntee, but what do you think? Think the possibility of it coming back very different is high?

 

4. A little extra info on the clarity: The report he showed me and what I could see under the microscope indicated that this diamond was near flawless with 1 inclusion in the very tip of the corner. Since that will go by the post that sets it, would this make this deal anybit sweeter? Or would an inclusion by the corner be bad in some way I don't know about?

 

5. Also, what is Wall cut? He told me that it was the way all of their diamonds are cut, that if you were comparing to an AGS cert specification it would be an Ideal cut. Is this correct? Am I getting the sham?

 

I just wanted to know what everyone thought of this diamond and if anyone could help ease my pain of shopping for this thing, and help me out to avoid getting the perverbial "Robbins Bros shaft".

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I’ve never heard of a ‘wall cut’ and am just as curious as you.

 

AGS has a cut grading scale that goes from 0-10 with 0 at the top and where 0 is also called ‘ideal’. Since presumably ‘wall’ is a cut grade, he should be able to provide the scale and a description of what it’s measuring. Ask. If he comes up with something, please let us know. It sounds like baloney to me. I must say, I’m skeptical. I notice that a quick search on the Robbins Bros. and AIG websites contain nothing about it.

 

That’s nice that they are encouraging you to compare their goods with offers elsewhere and to buy wherever you find the best deal although I presume you would be doing that anyway. How do they suggest you compare cutting since they are using this special scale that seems to be unique to them?

 

For a ‘generic’ princess/J/VVS2/0.76 that seems pretty expensive but I guess it depends on what kind of premium a Wall cut is worth. J/VVS2 is also kind of an odd combination. Did you choose this or did he? Most people who go for the warmer colors do so because it brings down the price and if you’re driving down the price, the premium for VVS2 might be something worth considering as well. A correctly graded VS2 or even SI1 will be visibly identical to the unaided eye and may result in a substantial savings.

 

That’s a fine offer about ordering the GIA paperwork. Absolutely take him up on it if you decide to buy there.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Hi HeXeD,

 

Welcome! Hopefully I have some answers for you. I am going to do my best to answer your questions one by one, as I see it...There are many other knowledgeable individuals on this forum and I am sure they will weigh in as well.

 

Question 1...Are you getting a good deal on the stone? NO! A 2 minute search though my suppliers, and I can tell you I found a .71 G VS2 AGS Ideal Princess for almost exactly the same price. Having been a purchaser of high quality, ideal cut diamonds for a long time...I can tell you...AGS Ideal princess cuts are everything they are cracked up to be. For the same money for better color and cut, and graded by AGS, probably the toughest lab in the market, that is a no brainer. Go with an AGS Ideal, it will impress you more.

 

Question 2...Will you notice the color difference from G to I? If only it were that simple...you put down that the stone was I/J. Did the jeweler specify? Which is it, I or J...the is a big difference. In a properly graded, ideal cut stone, an I color will still face up fairly white, and the differnce, while definitely noticeable in direct comparisons, may not be so noticeable once the diamond is set in a ring. I have sold many I color princesses, and have had many happy customers, however J is a different story. While I have also had customers purchase J color from me, the difference is definitely noticeable. Give up the clarity..get a better color.

 

Question 3...The AIG Report? Honestly...I have been buying and selling diamonds for years, and I have no recollection of ever dealing with an AIG Report, and there is a very simple reason for that. If it does not have a GIA or AGS Report with it, I am not interested, except for certain exceptions such as antique stones...etc. Generally speaking, when looking at new cuts I encourage customers to get GIA or AGS graded diamonds. If not, the most prevalent report after those is EGL, and if you are going to look at EGL stones, you should do so with the help of an experience diamond expert, who also has access to the technology necessary to independantly grade the diamond before you purchase it.

 

I think it is a very nice offer for him to send the diamond to GIA...Do I personally think the grade will be the same...I doubt it, and it would seem to me to be a waste of your $75.

 

Question 4...Does the clarity make the deal any sweeter? No...you cant see the inclusion. It does not really matter where it is...all it is doing is driving up the price for something that will have absolutely no visual impact on the diamond whatsoever. Go for VS2/SI1 and get a great cut and a good color.

 

Question 5...What is a Wall Cut? I have never heard of it. Perhaps one of the other individuals on this forum has. I won't venture any guesses, since I really am not familiar with the term. All I can say is that I Googled the term and came up dry.

 

My honest opinion is that you will do much better online with a reputable vendor.

 

Good luck in your search!

 

Tim A.

Emma Parker & Co.

www.emmaparkerdiamonds.com

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Thanks to both of you. Emma I think we are involved in the same discussion on another forum too.. but that is quite fine. The more location I can get information the better. this is what I responded with in the other forum:

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Ok, so here is my new plan. I am going to see a few new diamonds tomorrow over at Robbins Bros. I have recently ordered a diamond off of blue nile. here are the specs:

 

Stock number: LD01371313

Price: $2,509

Bank wire price: $2,472

Carat weight: 0.76

Cut: Very Good

Color: F

Clarity: VS1

Depth %: 74.3%

Table %: 72%

Symmetry: Very good

Polish: Excellent

Girdle: Thick to very thick

Culet: None

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 5.16 x 4.98 x 3.70 mm

Length/width ratio: 1.04

 

 

I will have this ring by tomorrow morning so I can go in to Robbins Bros with that and compare. Then I plan on also purchasing the following diamond (or one just like it) from mondera.com and bringing it in to Robbins Bros to compare again. Here are the specs:

 

Price: 2275$

Item Number:598373-8318732

Shape:Princess

Weight:0.74 carat

Cut:Ideal

Color:F

Clarity:VS1

Laboratory:GIA

Measurements:4.89x4.79x3.59mm

Depth:74.9%

Table:71%

Girdle:Slightly thick to Thick

Culet:NONE

Polish:EXCELLENT

Symmetry:VERY GOOD

Certificate No:17125006

Fluorescence:NONE

 

I have a feeling I am going to like the one from mondera the most but we will see. Anybody think I am going the wrong way with this? On the right track?

Edited by HeXeD

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Ok, the diamond I received from blue nile was incredible so I have decided on that one. I am going into Robbins bros today to have them set it. The whole thing is gonna run me close to 3700 or so so that was around my budget. Here is the diamond I decided on. Like everyone else says, the pictures do not do it justice.

 

 

P1010164.jpg

 

I am including a few more pictures but didn't put them in here for the bandwidth needed.. these pics are huge.

 

http://video.oneshotonekill.net:8081/diamond/P1010163.jpg

 

http://video.oneshotonekill.net:8081/diamond/P1010166.jpg

 

http://video.oneshotonekill.net:8081/diamond/P1010170.jpg

 

http://video.oneshotonekill.net:8081/diamond/P1010171.jpg

 

http://video.oneshotonekill.net:8081/diamond/P1010174.jpg

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Good luck. Glad to know you are happy. You might ask Robbins to do a light performance analysis on the diamond for you as well before your return period is up. I think they might have the equipment to tell you more. Also hope you didn't want to upgrade in the future, don't think BN has a policy for that. However congrats on your purchase.


Jan

For those that want to know the truth about diamonds, just ask.

 

dbof.com

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I'm glad you had a somewhat positive shopping experience at Robbin's Brothers with someone who didn't pressure you into buying. Here in the LA area I hear many people tell me differently they they tried every sales tactic to make a sale. Everything they sell however has a huge profit margin and that's something you should be aware of. Like many traditional jewelers, Robbin's Brothers had a good business model 10 years ago. But if you ask me, they're the most guilty however with being out of touch with what the consumer demands.... at least here in the southern california area.

 

Big stores? Check.

Big Staff? Check.

Big Advertising Budget? Check.

Pushing non-GIA/AGS Diamonds? Check.

Hiding Diamond Inventory making Comparison Shopping Difficult? Check.

Fishy Cut Grading Terminology? Check.

High Pressure Sales Tactics to buy On Spot? Check.

Huge Markup? Check +++++

 

In this modern age where consumers demand to be treated honestly and given a fair price on their diamond, a jewelry store like this won't be able to survive under these conditions. We've taken a lot of business from RB in the short time we've been opened, and I'm hoping to open another 2 small stores in the next 18 months and possibly more in the future. RB is a huge player in this area.. it will be interesting to see how they adapt to smaller, more consumer-friendly and highly efficient local jewelry stores such as myself ;) But I do wish them well of course, and I hope you find exactly the diamond you're looking for at a fair price.

Edited by Adylon

Yosef Adde

Adylon.com - Diamonds & Bridal Jewelry (Burbank, CA)

http://www.adylon.com

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Color Clarity Price, from a lab report. What can anyone really tell you with only a table and total depth. Many people actually think the finish on the polish and symmetry is indicative of the cut grade. In reality it is only the finish.

 

Nothing with outside dimensions of a diamond is going to tell you how much light return is going back to the eye. You would need testing with light performance analysis equipment to tell you.

 

Your eye may tell you that one average cut is as good as another, but how do you know you are comparing stones of high lilght performance or just average light performance without the info?

Edited by jan

Jan

For those that want to know the truth about diamonds, just ask.

 

dbof.com

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Jan...

 

Just curious...does Robbins Bros even have the equipment or know-how to do an accurate light performance analysis...tools like BScope, IS, Sarin or Helium, DiamCalc, etc? I would not think that they would have that...but perhaps they are more cutting edge than I am giving them credit for...

 

Tim A.

Emma Parker & Co.

www.emmaparkerdiamonds.com

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Jan...

 

Just curious...does Robbins Bros even have the equipment or know-how to do an accurate light performance analysis...tools like BScope, IS, Sarin or Helium, DiamCalc, etc? I would not think that they would have that...but perhaps they are more cutting edge than I am giving them credit for...

 

Tim A.

Emma Parker & Co.

www.emmaparkerdiamonds.com

 

 

There are a few different Robbins. Bernie Robbins, One in Philadelphia and one in California. I know I've seen some of the Robbins at the Isee2 symposiums before.


Jan

For those that want to know the truth about diamonds, just ask.

 

dbof.com

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