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Guess The Price


RiverMise
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Sorry RiverMise - I kind of miss the point here.

 

There's 3 such stones listed at one dealer with specs very very close* to your reference ranging from $4820 to $6280

Picking a second dealer shows 32 different stones with again very very close specs ranging from $4375 to $6218

 

It took me about 5 minutes to do the search on both sites. No need to "guess" anything, though a 40% range is pretty broad.

 

Except...

 

1. I assume you are looking at a princess cut stone, looking at the dimensions you have given, and there is no setting included. That's a much bigger guess than the price, frankly.

2. The parameters you are looking at don't explain the difference in prices - cut quality probably does, and that is difficult to assess without looking at the stone...

3. Guessing at "potential problems" given the paucity of information is very difficult. It "should" be eye clean, it "should" look white, it "should" look reasonably sized for a 1ct stone, it "should" look square; it could look like an absolute stunner, or it could look like a piece of glass. Same thing holds for any of the 35 stones on the lists above.

 

* My definition of "very very close"

 

F, VS2, GIA graded

1.01-1.05 ct

Polish EX/VG

Symmetry EX/VG

Fluorescence None-Medium

L/W ratio 1.00-1.09

 

None of those taken individually restricts the price range by more than 10% either way, so we go back to point 2 above.

Edited by davidelevi
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OK, here is the problem. I am looking at that stone online and am also seeing a large range in prices. I have seen pictures and the GIA report, but I would have no idea what would seperate a $4200 from a $6200 stone especially by looking at pictures. So, I could either trust that the dealer is giving me a good price or I could try to buy from a local dealer where I can inspect the stone myself. I went to a local dealer (Jared) and the stones were MUCH more expensive for lesser quality. So I am trying to determine a) if this diamond is a stunner and :) if the price is fair. What other info could I get that would make it easier to determine?

 

Make sense?

 

PS - yes, a princess cut.

 

 

 

Sorry RiverMise - I kind of miss the point here.

 

There's 3 such stones listed at one dealer with specs very very close* to your reference ranging from $4820 to $6280

Picking a second dealer shows 32 different stones with again very very close specs ranging from $4375 to $6218

 

It took me about 5 minutes to do the search on both sites. No need to "guess" anything, though a 40% range is pretty broad.

 

Except...

 

1. I assume you are looking at a princess cut stone, looking at the dimensions you have given, and there is no setting included. That's a much bigger guess than the price, frankly.

2. The parameters you are looking at don't explain the difference in prices - cut quality probably does, and that is difficult to assess without looking at the stone...

3. Guessing at "potential problems" given the paucity of information is very difficult. It "should" be eye clean, it "should" look white, it "should" look reasonably sized for a 1ct stone, it "should" look square; it could look like an absolute stunner, or it could look like a piece of glass. Same thing holds for any of the 35 stones on the lists above.

 

* My definition of "very very close"

 

F, VS2, GIA graded

1.01-1.05 ct

Polish EX/VG

Symmetry EX/VG

Fluorescence None-Medium

L/W ratio 1.00-1.09

 

None of those taken individually restricts the price range by more than 10% either way, so we go back to point 2 above.

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The differences in price you see among apparently similar stones are - I will risk this, ready to be shot down by others here :) - due to cut quality, to a lesser extent to the squareness/proportions of the stone, and the "goodness" of the colour and clarity grade (there are F that are pretty close to a G, and F that are pretty close to an E). The cost of the rough from which the stone was cut also has an impact, since there is a certain element of speculation there, but I would think this is largely moderated by market forces for "normal" stones.

 

The difference between a "real store" and internet dealer price is due to the different cost structures. The internet dealer has lower location rental/lease costs, much lower salary costs (ratio of salespeople to customers is much lower), often no inventory carrying cost (they simply drop-ship from manufacturers), etc etc. All of this builds up to considerable amounts that need to be made up somehow.

 

The ISEE2 and brilliancescope results are nothing to shout about, but:

 

a. some (many?) would say they do not capture the consequences of cut quality fully or reliably.

b. there is no accounting for taste, and beauty is largely in the eye of the beholder. Do you like a lot of small coloured sparkles, or do you go for broader areas of white flashes?

 

the only evaluation tool that works reliably especially in answering point b. is a human brain connected to a pair of eyes. Most internet dealers offer good return policies, and some carry the stones in inventory, so they can help in weeding off the obvious no's. I would get an idea of what you like in terms of look and performance from Jared, and then get ready to order and reject a few stones until you find something you like at the right price.

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Thanks a lot for your thoughtful response. I am finding this whole process somewhat overwhelming... so many things to consider. I think the aforementioned stone is what I am going to go with despite the lackluster performance on the ISEE2 and b-scope. The lady I have been working with (online) says it is an beautiful stone and the pictures look great. The price is $4995. Reasonable?

 

I can do a search on bluenile and can get a stone w/ the same specs for a few hundred cheaper but these stones have likely been unseen. Also, bluenile does not offer an upgrade policy and the other retailer does so I suppose I'd be willing to pay the extra few hundred. Agree?

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:) You are very welcome. The consumer (including me!) is largely blind/uninformed about many of the factors that affect diamond price. Add the emotional stresses linked to the amount of money involved and the occasion(s) for which diamonds are generally purchased, and I'm not surprised people don't find it an easy process!

 

I think the price (and the reports) tell you that the stone is not cut to allow maximum light return in all conditions. It's a pretty competitive market for that kind of stone, and it's unlikely dealers are mispricing significantly. Does it matter? Perhaps, but then again you are saving more than a thousand against a more likely "top flight" diamond, and you may not see (or like) the difference.

 

Does it make it an ugly stone? Most likely not, especially if it comes through a dealer that goes to the expense of providing ISEE and Gemex results, has taken photos of the actual diamond, has the stone in stock and has a decent return and upgrade policy. At the very least it means the company is committed to sell quality and stands behind what it sells. And that is worth a lot to me.

 

Go for it, if you like the stone "in the flash" (!) get an indipendent appraiser to give you an expert opinion. If once you see it you have doubts, return it and start again. Good luck!

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Our extensive experience with the Brilliancescope results for princess cut diamonds indicate that there is a strong correlation to human face up visual perception of light refraction. In spite of the EX-EX external Polish/Symmetry grades, this diamond's light performance is mediocre. There do exist better light performance stones out there with similar specs.

 

I believe that your problem is that you have no frame of reference to work from and you would therefore help yourself immeasurably and assuage much of your angst if you visited some jewelry stores and compared princess cuts of different specs. These pictures formed in your minds eye will then help you interpret the data obtained from sources where you can not visually inspect the diamond(s).

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River;

 

I hear your point about the Bscope.

 

From our hands on experience the Brilliancescope is closer to the eyes visual perception for Princess cuts than it is for round brilliants.

 

Since it appears that you are not racing the clock to make a purchase decision, do your homework and go to upper end jewelry stores that stock well-cut GIA and AGS Ideal Princess cuts and look them over, compare, and evaluate. Ask the Customer rep to take you to areas of the store away from the counter high-intensity halogen lamps that will make a K-L color diamond face up like a D color. "Numbers" off a lab report tell you nothing about the diamonds face up light refraction/beauty.

 

Know, that in well cut diamonds you will see the refracted light to your eye break into three components:

 

1. white light or brilliance,

 

2. colored light or dispersion,

 

3. scintillation or sparkle

 

Beauty is a personal preference; there is no right or wrong.

 

Some people prefer brilliance,

 

Some people prefer the colored light and dispersive colors of the rainbow,

 

Some people prefer the rays, sparkle, scintillation,

 

Some people prefer a harmonious balance of all three.

 

Just in the past two weeks we had a gentleman in our Showroom to whom we showed a GIA EX/VG Beautifully cut Princess vs. an AGS Ideal Princess. Both diamonds were beautiful. The GIA Princess displayed great face up Brilliance (white light) whereas the AGS Ideal Princess displayed great dispersion (colored light). Tough choice, but after extensive deliberation, our Customer chose the AGS Princess because the greater dispersion in that diamond had a stronger pull to him than the excellent brilliance of the GIA Princess. Does his choice diminish the beauty of the GIA Princess? Not at all.

 

And You? Which do you prefer? You won't know until you l@@k.

 

L@@k and Good Luck.

Edited by barry
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Based only on the numbers (and the brilliancescope results), yes!

 

I'd be happy to trade one colour grade for a much higher light return and a slightly bigger spread (especially on a cut that spreads notoriously little).

 

However, there's no replacement for your own personal taste. Barry is 110% right. L@@K!

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I went and looked at all the GIA princess cuts around my area. A couple observations: 1) There are VERY few available. I went to one high-end jeweler that only had 1 that met my description. I went to another place that had a couple w/ certs but most without. All of them looked awesome to me, but I could def tell the difference in color between an E and H. A third place I went to had one and they wanted roughly $3000 more for a stone w/ worse stats than the one above. Also, only one of these places had even heard of the B-Scope test and none had heard of Isee2. All of the stones I looked at seemed great to me!!! I avoided the chain places because they only had IGI/EGL.

 

What I did realize was that the in-store prices are $1500-$3000 more for a similar stone to above so I have solidified my decision to purchase online. I actually feel that I get more info (b-scope and isee2) online and can trust the online jewelers more to give me an honest opinion on which stones they prefer. I did get decent customer service at 2 out of the 3 places I went but I was very underwhelmed with their selection. They all had access to tons of GIA diamonds that they could order, but the prices on the ordered diamonds were at least $700 higher.

 

So in conclusion I will be going with a reputable internet dealer who can offer me honest opinions on the stones and give me b-score/isee2 reports as well as a 100% upgrade policy. I am avoiding the B+M jewelers in town.

 

Thank you everyone for your help and encouragement, this process has been overwhelming but I have found it very interesting learning about gems and diamonds.

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