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Milliespoon

Should We Buy At Home Or In Us?

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Hi everyone, We are looking for a diamond and found one in a Jewellery Shop here at home in Ireland with the following characteristics. We think we might be able to get better value in the US with the $. Would you be able to tell me an approximate cost for this diamond if we were to buy in the US. Should we go for one with VSI or VSII clarity instead? The diamond was a Solitaire, brilliant cut, estimated weight of diamond 2.01 ct, F colour, SII clarity.

Thanks for all your advice!

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Hi Millie,

 

‘Estimated’ weight is a big red flag and it raises questions about the other stats you’ve listed as well. The difference in price between a 1.96/G/SI2 and a 2.01/F/VS2 is huge. It’s more than a factor of 3, especially if you consider cutting details!

 

I’m a big fan of supporting businesses that are close to home when you can but I’m with David, I wouldn’t even consider an offer like that at any price.

 

At the top of the page is a useful utility called ‘find online jeweler’. Even if you have no intention of buying online it’s a handy way of getting a feel for what things cost in a highly competitive marketplace. It also gives you an opportunity to see how the offers change when you adjust the various parameters like the clarity you mentioned or the weight that I’m picking on.

 

In your price shopping, don't forget the taxes you will pay on import when you bring it home, not just the currency exchange rates. I think it's about 15% in Ireland but ring up the taxman and I'm sure they'll tell you. It's the only fair way to compare prices. Even with that, the US Internet folks usually come out very price competitive. Whether or not the local stores are worth the premium that they likely will cost will depend on both the stores and what you consider important. It's easy enough to find your US/Internet prices and then go ask the people at the store. You will not be the first to ask this question, I promise.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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HI All!

 

Neil, it's not necessary for shoppers to actually come to the US- we ship to Ireland and all over Europe frequently.

 

In terms of finding out what a 2.00carat costs....I also don't feel that it's a simple matter.

 

 

Many of the database lists have widely varying prices- even for ostensibly similar diamonds.

A quick check of a large site selling from a list revelas prices from $13693 all the way up to $22693 for 2.01 G/Si1 round diamonds.......

 

 

For a price to be valid, the seller must actually have the stone in hand.

 

I'd suggest that shoppers make sure that the seller has the diamond. If it's in a store situation, and the diamond is present- make sure it's got a GIA report.

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They still have to pay the taxes whether the diamond or the customer flies. :angry:

 

I agree that it's important to be comparing real offers on real stones and that's not always obvious. Traps abound.

 

A 2.00/F/SI1/GIA/Excellent with no other special attributes will be pretty consistent in price across all of the major internet vendors. Currently $22k-24k covers nearly the entire range. VG's are about 10-15% cheaper. For a new purchase of a colorless diamond I would not recommend accepting less than Very Good without very special circumstances. Would you? That's a remarkably narrow span and serves as a darned good guideline for what shoppers looking for a 'ballpark' figure can expect.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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For a new purchase of a colorless diamond I would not recommend accepting less than Very Good without very special circumstances. Would you?

 

That's a great questions Neil- and it really does highlight the "mainstream internet" thought process on diamonds.

 

In many ways- I think the most important ways- a colorless stone of "Good" Polish and Symmetry can be just as desirable as one with an EX cut grade.

 

One would reasonably expect the EX to cost more- and it does. By that measure it's "better"

 

Let's remember that a person experienced in diamonds, using tools might be able to see the difference between Good and Excellent Symmetry- Polish is even more difficut to grade.

 

 

So, if I was answering that as far as opening a website to compete with Blue Nile- than of course I would not reccomend any but an EX cut grade.

On the other hand, say I was looking for a stone for myself. Say I found a stone with a GIA report prior to 2006.

Say I love the make and overall charachteristics.

As a stone without the "Cut grade" I'd save money buying it.

If GIA subsequently graded the diamond "Good" cut grade- would it make the diamond less lovely?

 

The point is- some people absolutely have to hang their hat on something. A chart showing percentages, a grade- what have you.

 

I feel like that whole concept is not the right way to buy a diamond.

 

I'll get down off my soapbox now....

 

I do agree that your price range seems about what it would cost today.

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When I referred to ‘excellent’, I was referring to the GIA cut grade for round brilliants, not the grades for polish and/or symmetry. Sorry for the confusion. I also point out that didn’t say excellent cut was ‘better’, only that it costs more although I would also observe that they are also more popular, which is largely why they cost more. I think we solidly agree on that point.

 

‘Fair’ and ‘Poor’ effectively don’t exist in the marketplace so really the only other choice is ‘Good’. Although I agree that there are some fantastic stones with that grade as well as stones with pre-2006 paperwork, it’s a flag for concern if a shopper is just looking at a report and wondering if it’s worth the trouble and expense to look at a particular stone.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I know we really do agree on this Neil.

 

Of course, given your example, I'd say the red flag is a consumer shopping and "just looking at a report".

I know I'm swimming against the tide of charts and numbers on the web- but I think there's people who appreciate diamonds for the beauty

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You can find an excellent diamond at Israel-Diamonds.com.

A 2.01 ct Round Diamond - E / SI1 - EX, EX with GIA report.

 

Please see the following link: http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/Diamond/sg/11446.aspx.

 

Please see also the GIA report:

0161-14427_Crt.jpg

 

This company is owned by a large diamond and gemstone manufacturing company that has been members of all the major diamond and gemstones exchanges for well over 40 years. They have access to any type of goods you may be in the market for. This company was set up in order to offer the smaller jeweler and the general public a forum in which to buy diamonds and gemstones at prices well below the normal so-called wholesale prices.

 

Good Luck !


Fisher

Israel Diamonds

1-800-870-9867

Israel Diamonds

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Hi Diamondexpro,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Are you employed by or otherwise related to this company?

 

That’s an interesting example of what David and I were just talking about. Thanks. That’s a stone with a pre-2006 GIA report that doesn’t contain a cut grade at all. I notice on their web page they’ve internally graded it as Very Good but you listed it here as ‘E/SI1 – Ex, Ex.’ I can’t help but think that those Ex’s are the polish and symmetry grades and were included in the summary because of the very confusion we’re discussing. Polish and symmetry are finish grades and finish does not have anywhere near the affect on either the look of the stone or the pricing that the cut grading does. Unfortunately, people are often confused by these grades because they are described using the same words even though they mean something completely different.

 

I also notice that they include a ‘sample’ picture in their web advertisement and am going to presume by this that they don’t actually have the stone in their possession and are brokering it on behalf of someone else. This makes me curious about how they came to that ‘Very Good’ cut conclusion. Did they grade it themselves or are they relying on something from an unidentified 3rd party? The GIA cut grading methodology requires information that’s not included on the report that you’ve shown us and that’s not available without inspecting the stone. GIA will not assign a grade to a stone without a physical inspection. Surely you agree that the cutting is an important issue and, since they’re proudly quoting GIA for all of those other attributes, don’t you think it’s important to mention that this bit came from some other source, especially if it was done by the seller themselves and if they’re using a non-GIA approach or grading scale?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'so called wholesale prices' but this stone does seem to be priced right in line with the RETAIL pricing we've been discussing.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I can confirm that Diamondexpro = israel-diamonds.com.

 

The post does violate the Forum Rules (self-promotion) and therefore I would normally delete it, but since Neil took the time to respond to it and it does appear to be an innocent first-time mistake, I will leave it.

 

Diamondexpro, welcome to the forum! Please take the time to read the Forum Rules (very bottom of the page, 3rd link from the left).


Hermann

Moderator

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Hi everyone, We are looking for a diamond and found one in a Jewellery Shop here at home in Ireland with the following characteristics. We think we might be able to get better value in the US with the $. Would you be able to tell me an approximate cost for this diamond if we were to buy in the US. Should we go for one with VSI or VSII clarity instead? The diamond was a Solitaire, brilliant cut, estimated weight of diamond 2.01 ct, F colour, SII clarity.

Thanks for all your advice!

 

I wouldn't purchase anything with an estimated weight. If the weight is estimated than also the color and clarity must be an estimate. Look for something with an AGS or GIA lab report if you are looking for an accurately graded diamond. I had some folks in my store from Ireland last week. They were tellilng me that the duty is like 30% for importing overseas so it's important to find out exactly how much duty and taxes you would be paying to import a diamond to factor into the equation for price. But most importantly, you won't be able to compare pricing if they are not accurately graded.


Jan

For those that want to know the truth about diamonds, just ask.

 

dbof.com

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