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Help With Diamond Choice Please.


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Hello,

I want to thank everyone for their feedback. I found a diamond I liked at BlueNile and it was delivered this weekend. I like the diamond and setting, but a small inclusion is clearly visible by my naked eye (about 6" away) near the center of the table (brownish pinpoint spot). The inclusion is noted on the GIA cert, but I had inquired and was told it was "eye clean" prior to purchase." My Fiance can't see it, but she hasn't seen the cert and doesn't know what to look for yet, lol. BTW, she's happy so far. We have a 30 day return policy.

How does "eye cleanliness" affect the value? I would appreciate feedback regarding the GIA report and my above comment. I paid $5939. Blue Nile item #LD01307125

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/1999/GIA16401965.jpeg

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Hello Pierre,

 

Should you ever come to resell the stone, I suspect the non eye-cleanliness would affect both the ease of selling it and the price you may be able to get for it. The fact you are getting it from Blue Nile - ie without any form of upgrade/trade in policy - is also something to consider.

 

If it is something that bugs you, change it - better to wait for another couple of weeks and find a good eye-clean stone than being bothered about it for the rest of your lives. I for one would not want an easily visible inclusion in a colourless diamond. On the other hand - and this goes back to the need to see the blasted things before making a decision - I haven't seen the stone, and it may be quite hard to spot.

 

Best of luck, and keep us updated!

Edited by davidelevi
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Hello,

I want to thank everyone for their feedback. I found a diamond I liked at BlueNile and it was delivered this weekend. I like the diamond and setting, but a small inclusion is clearly visible by my naked eye (about 6" away) near the center of the table (brownish pinpoint spot). The inclusion is noted on the GIA cert, but I had inquired and was told it was "eye clean" prior to purchase." My Fiance can't see it, but she hasn't seen the cert and doesn't know what to look for yet, lol. BTW, she's happy so far. We have a 30 day return policy.

How does "eye cleanliness" affect the value? I would appreciate feedback regarding the GIA report and my above comment. I paid $5939. Blue Nile item #LD01307125

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/1999/GIA16401965.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Hey there,

 

Ok when dealing with Si inclusions what I work on for my clients is making sure that the first inclusion listed at the bottom left diagram "Key to Symbols" is NOT a crystal. The first inclusion posted is generally the key inclusion determining the clarity grade.

 

Crystal being the one to avoid. I would sift through and find ones that say "twinning wisp" or "feather" or "cloud", inclusions that are whitish and therefore will not stick out like an ink spot. If we do get a "crystal" inclusion listed first we damn sure don't want the circular type inclusion to be smack in the table middle area. THAT is a recipe for not being eyeclean.

 

I recently sold a 1.50ct F SI2 GIA to a buddy contact of mine and I went through 35+ GIA certs ranging from $8400 to $9700 before he decided on an Excellent Cut VG/EX/N $9600 one where the GIA cert looked as pretty as any SI1 cert out there.

 

With competent help comes proper options, not the BS "let's throw it on the wall and see how much sticks" mentality of a per dollar an hour employee.

 

She may not see it right this moment but when she does you better hope she still wants it because once one knows where to look they ALWAYS look for the flaw, not how pretty the stone actually is.

 

Marty

CEO/Pres

www.dbsdiamonds.com

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Hello,

I want to thank everyone for their feedback. I found a diamond I liked at BlueNile and it was delivered this weekend. I like the diamond and setting, but a small inclusion is clearly visible by my naked eye (about 6" away) near the center of the table (brownish pinpoint spot). The inclusion is noted on the GIA cert, but I had inquired and was told it was "eye clean" prior to purchase." My Fiance can't see it, but she hasn't seen the cert and doesn't know what to look for yet, lol. BTW, she's happy so far. We have a 30 day return policy.

How does "eye cleanliness" affect the value? I would appreciate feedback regarding the GIA report and my above comment. I paid $5939. Blue Nile item #LD01307125

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/1999/GIA16401965.jpeg

 

Did you buy the cheapest 1.05+ SI1/G EX-EX-EX? If so it wouldn't surprise me there is a small visible inclusion. I would say a good 20-30% of round 1ct SI1 GIA have something clearly eye visible, just off the top of my head, don't hold me to that figure..... of course the more expensive ones tend to be cleaner because they're more borderline VS2-SI1, rather then being borderline SI1-SI2.

Edited by Adylon
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This is just business, so don't take it personally. :unsure:

I picked the diamond which I thought had a attractive GIA description based on my criteria and price point (I have a lot of flexibility as long as the value is there). I also talked to the rep about the inclusion which was noted on the cert. and inquired about eye cleanliness. Unfortunately, the inclusion bothers me a bit. I hoped to learn more from this board about reasonable expectations and then consider an exchange or return.

 

I may have missed out on a good suggestion or two, but I have always admitted to being green.

I guess I wanted concrete suggestions rather than the occasional responses, like:

We offer competative prices, but we are better because......

we see and table (light) test all our diamonds...but here's a nice one we can order (What happened to the 1st hand testimony?)

our service is....

free upgrades

etc...

 

It seems Marty tried to help by suggesting specific examples, but he was confronted by others for his efforts. This should be a competative business like all others. If Marty competes mainly on price, then let the buyer decide if that's his primary consideration. Thanks Marty, I wish the feedback on this board was more positive and fair.

 

I have a couple more weeks to decide if I want to keep this stone. I'll keep looking. As always, if anyone wants to get specific and make a suggestion, then I'd appreciate it. I am flexible with price another grand or two for a bigger stone. Just looking for a nice stone with value that will make her happy. I am a man after all :(

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Hello,

I want to thank everyone for their feedback. I found a diamond I liked at BlueNile and it was delivered this weekend. I like the diamond and setting, but a small inclusion is clearly visible by my naked eye (about 6" away) near the center of the table (brownish pinpoint spot). The inclusion is noted on the GIA cert, but I had inquired and was told it was "eye clean" prior to purchase." My Fiance can't see it, but she hasn't seen the cert and doesn't know what to look for yet, lol. BTW, she's happy so far. We have a 30 day return policy.

How does "eye cleanliness" affect the value? I would appreciate feedback regarding the GIA report and my above comment. I paid $5939. Blue Nile item #LD01307125

 

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/1999/GIA16401965.jpeg

 

Did you buy the cheapest 1.05+ SI1/G EX-EX-EX? If so it wouldn't surprise me there is a small visible inclusion. I would say a good 20-30% of round 1ct SI1 GIA have something clearly eye visible, just off the top of my head, don't hold me to that figure..... of course the more expensive ones tend to be cleaner because they're more borderline VS2-SI1, rather then being borderline SI1-SI2.

 

Hello Adylon,

 

Cheapest? I'm a little insulted, :unsure:

As you might already be aware (with a simple search), the stone I chose was in the middle of the price range for similar criteria at Blue Nile. One of the largest retailers, GIA description/cert and all. As objective as there is, right? Lowest price was not my main objective, nor was some subjective quality of service. Would it have been the "cheapest" at your store?

When we talked by phone, I felt you were very vague about your stones, but very detailed about your service. If that's your strength, then exploit it.

 

Pierre

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I just have to reply to your question. I have just purchased a diamond online for our 20th Anniversary. I did a complete search to find the best company to work with and the best quality diamond that i could afford. I found both with www.exceldiamonds.com

Lots of work on my part to find just the right company and i did. Barry and Judah did everything they stated they would do and there diamonds are GIA cert.

The diamond i bought is a VVS1 1.76c Asscher NO ONE could bet the price, no one. So if you want better quality and the best price give this company a look.

And try to stay out of the SI if you want eye clean...Best of luck

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Hello Adylon,

 

Cheapest? I'm a little insulted, :unsure:

As you might already be aware (with a simple search), the stone I chose was in the middle of the price range for similar criteria at Blue Nile. One of the largest retailers, GIA description/cert and all. As objective as there is, right? Lowest price was not my main objective, nor was some subjective quality of service. Would it have been the "cheapest" at your store?

When we talked by phone, I felt you were very vague about your stones, but very detailed about your service. If that's your strength, then exploit it.

 

Pierre

 

 

Hi Pierre,

 

First of all to set one thing straight blue nile is not one of the largest retailer of diamonds, they have less then 1% US market share, they have no stores from which to service customers and they stock very little diamonds.

 

Regarding the "cheap" comment I didn't mean it that way so let me elaborate. First of all it's very normal for a consumer to see 10 diamonds, graded GIA, SI1/G EX/EX/EX, and just buy the cheapest of those 10. After all, they're GIA SI1/G right? Well that's wrong. All GIA SI1/G's are not created equal as you're finding out. Some will be dead on SI1/G, some might be closer to F color, some might be borderline SI1-SI2, some could be super eye clean depending on the type and location of the inclusions. I'm not singling you out, as jewelers we often do the same thing. A customer needs a clean/white stone, we'll source out the cheapest based on those specs....the difference is what they do after they get the stone. If it was graded accurately and they think their customer will like it, they'll show it to them, otherwise they send it back. While other dealers (like blue nile) never see the diamond, or perhaps just don't care, and just want tosell the cheapest diamond based on specs, which is fine too, as long as you understand that error exists and you're OK with it.

 

Often times there's a big deviation pricing for diamonds of the same grade, like 1ct SI1/G EX/EX/EX on blue nile now range from $5361 to $6557. That's a big deviation. Why do you think that is? Someone probably bought a rough diamond and graded it SI2/H and negotiated for that price. The got it graded by GIA and it comes back SI1/G. "Great!" They think, they just made another 20% on their investment, but they can afford to sell it for a little less and get their profit more quickly. Another dealer might have bought a rough diamond and self-graded it VS2/G and now GIA says it's SI1/G. Of course he starts swearing. :( But they bought the stone for more money and so they have to sell it for more. Or maybe he just feels it's worth more because he knows it's more clean then a typical SI1, but maybe not up to par to get a VS2 grade, so he wants more money for his diamond, which is fine. After all he paid more for it, it's cleaner (in his opinion) so he's entitled to ask more for that diamond if he wants.

 

That's just how it is my friend, the price range of $5361 to $6557 exists for a reason, and it's because no 2 diamonds are created the same in nature, therefore not all SI1/G diamonds are created equal, even if graded equal. That price range is an error of $1196 or 18%. Would you be willing to buy something normally for thousands of dollars that could be worth 18% less? Of course you wouldn't. That's why personal inspection is so critical. If it was my customer, I would have called in 2-3 SI1/G diamonds examined them all and given them my honest opinion. After all I don't own the diamonds, so I have no bias which they pick. And the customer is always welcome to come in the store as well and see for themselves whythis SI1/G is $300 or $800 more then the other. Or I can find them a nice clean GIA graded SI2 (that is borderline SI1-SI2) that's just as nice as the cheaper GIA graded SI1 (that is also borderline SI1-SI2) for less money.

 

It's like buying a used car. You can find 50 2003 honda civics, but there is a reason some will cost $4,000 and others $8,000, because they all vary. Even if you just bought the one for $6,000 because it was in the middle range of the same specs, doesn't assure you'll get something better then a $4,000 car. You wouldn't tolerate that large of an error and buy sight unseen if buying a car, so why would you do it when buying a diamond? Blue Nile is a drop shipper, they do not have physical possession of diamonds, so when you asked them if it was eye-clean they of course probably said yes because that's what they've been told to say for SI1's I assume.

 

Anyhow if you got the diamond, and you understand that it's probably more like between grades SI2-SI1 and you're happy you got it for a very good price considering that, then I wouldn't let the inclusions bother you. Best wishes to you and your fiance and I hope you enjoy your ring.

Edited by Adylon
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Hi Pierre,

It sounds like you are bothered by the inclusion which you can see with the eye. I would take advantage of the 30 day return and get one that won't bother you. Sometimes stones that run slightly less have a reason why, otherwise all the SI1 G's on Blue Nile would be the same price. Unfortunately, they won't be able to tell you what the stone really looks like since they drop ship the stones and never see them. Also not sure if they have a 100% upgrade policy in the future either. But anyways, good luck with your search. I would keep looking until happy.

Edited by jan
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Hi Pierre,

 

Unfortunately, the inclusion bothers me a bit.

 

This is a total deal killer. Send it back immediately. Blue Nile has lots of 1.0/G/SI diamonds available and it’s nuts to accept one that ‘bothers you a bit’.

 

‘Eye clean’ is not one of the standards for clarity grading. Since nearly everybody shopping in the SI-1 range asks this question, you might want to consider why not. The problem is a matter of asking whose eyes and under what circumstances. For my mother, a sugar cube is eye clean and in a dark enough room it would be for everyone.

 

That’s why you see so much advice about buying from someone who can actually see the stone. It saves the headache of the return shipping. All SI1's do not look the same and the same stone wont look the same to all viewers and under all conditions. That said, it’s not all that much trouble. Visit your local post office and ask about registered mail service. You are the first person to see the stone and it’s eye visible to YOU, so send it back and get a different one. If you don’t want to be near the boundary, move up to VS2. There’s plenty of good reasons to buy from Blue Nile but their sales people cannot see the stones and asking them if something is eye visible to them is a wasted question. If you want to stick with the SI1 grade because of the pricing, I understand, but you are dancing on the edge given the standard you're applying. Buying such things blind comes with a risk that you’ll be sending it back and asking an opinion from someone else who is blind as well is no help at all. Again, the penalty is low. Send it back and get another one. If that one ‘bothers you’, send it back as well.

 

It seems Marty tried to help by suggesting specific examples, but he was confronted by others for his efforts. This should be a competative business like all others. If Marty competes mainly on price, then let the buyer decide if that's his primary consideration. Thanks Marty, I wish the feedback on this board was more positive and fair.

 

I don’t get this comment at all. I just reread Marty’s post to be sure and I don’t see that anyone responded to it at all, including you. What confrontation? Are you thinking of some other discussion? I agree, diamonds is a very competitive business and Marty can sell on whatever basis he wants but in rereading his post, he doesn’t seem to be pitching his wares as having especially low prices. To the contrary, he seems to be pitching his expertise in assisting his customers in picking a stone from a pool of superficially similar ones.

 

Neil

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Neil,

 

I think that Pierre is referring to his previous thread.

 

Thank you, and I do appreciate the thoughtful responses from each of you. I was a little frustrated when I posted. :(

I've always understood the advantage of buying in store vs unseen and online, but worth the added cost? It would be nice to hear reasonable numbers to base a decision on. I don't think most price conscious, but value driven, people would mind paying extra for your expertise and efforts.

 

Neil, I was referring to a previous post.

BTW, not only does the inclusion bother me a little bit, but the small size does as well. Imagine if I send it back to fix both problems. Maybe I should consider a VS1, 2 ct., oh and the color... :unsure:

 

Pierre

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I don't think most price conscious, but value driven, people would mind paying extra for your expertise and efforts.

I get hired by several people every day to help with this general kind of issue so I guess this is correct. My mortgage company and I thank you for your support. :unsure:

 

The bottom line is always the money. It’s a balancing act of what you want and what you’re willing to forgo in exchange for your cash. This includes both the gemological properties of the stone and the services of the dealer and/or appraiser. The automatic response for frugal shoppers to decide that dealer services aren’t very useful (and indeed some aren’t) and to aim for maximizing the gemology and minimizing the dealer and other costs. The Internet based dealers enjoy a bit of efficiency that’s hard for the locals to match and this is what leads a significant majority of the people to either Blue Nile or this forum. I think that most here would agree that, all other things being equal, you would be better off buying from a first rate and reliable local store where you can just tell them what you want and get it.

 

Unfortunately, all things are rarely equal and most people’s image of a perfect store doesn’t exist for a variety of good reasons. The most obvious difference is the prices and the selection but there are others and you’re touching on several of them. Only you can decide what to give up and what to keep. Sure, the dealers here tend to promote the areas that they see as their own strengths. Wouldn’t you? I tend to promote the idea that expert 3rd party assistance is helpful and I make a living doing exactly that. This doesn’t make any of us ‘wrong’ but it’s no surprise that there’s the occasional conflict. That keeps everyone honest and it keeps the forum interesting.

 

In that other thread you mentioned, Marty had some rather specific criticisms leveled at him and he still hasn’t responded other than to be annoyed that strangers (competitors no less!) would stick their noses in his business. Welcome to Web 2.0. We all live in fishbowls here.

 

Neil

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I don't think most price conscious, but value driven, people would mind paying extra for your expertise and efforts.

I get hired by several people every day to help with this general kind of issue so I guess this is correct. My mortgage company and I thank you for your support. :unsure:

 

The bottom line is always the money. It’s a balancing act of what you want and what you’re willing to forgo in exchange for your cash. This includes both the gemological properties of the stone and the services of the dealer and/or appraiser. The automatic response for frugal shoppers to decide that dealer services aren’t very useful (and indeed some aren’t) and to aim for maximizing the gemology and minimizing the dealer and other costs. The Internet based dealers enjoy a bit of efficiency that’s hard for the locals to match and this is what leads a significant majority of the people to either Blue Nile or this forum. I think that most here would agree that, all other things being equal, you would be better off buying from a first rate and reliable local store where you can just tell them what you want and get it.

 

Unfortunately, all things are rarely equal and most people’s image of a perfect store doesn’t exist for a variety of good reasons. The most obvious difference is the prices and the selection but there are others and you’re touching on several of them. Only you can decide what to give up and what to keep. Sure, the dealers here tend to promote the areas that they see as their own strengths. Wouldn’t you? I tend to promote the idea that expert 3rd party assistance is helpful and I make a living doing exactly that. This doesn’t make any of us ‘wrong’ but it’s no surprise that there’s the occasional conflict. That keeps everyone honest and it keeps the forum interesting.

 

In that other thread you mentioned, Marty had some rather specific criticisms leveled at him and he still hasn’t responded other than to be annoyed that strangers (competitors no less!) would stick their noses in his business. Welcome to Web 2.0. We all live in fishbowls here.

 

Neil

 

 

 

 

Any time a person offers a different opinion then they get drilled by the parties who want to keep the status quo. For example, here is a thread on Price Scope where I told the truth about EGL-USA vs. GIA and up and down I got spanked until I decided to address the criticism...

 

http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=93353

 

I have been quite busy working on a particular overseas rough transaction and also watching over my 4 kids with school still out. So just because I didn't respond immediately does not mean I ran away. I don't sit here making any forum my daily work.

 

I apologize for not responding quickly and I can be reached at any time if there are any questions. However innuendos and stuff are unjustified and uncalled for and I will respond.

 

Marty

CEO/Pres

Diamond Brokerage Service

www.dbsdiamonds.com

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Marty,

 

In deference to Hermann, let’s keep the discussion on what’s written here, not on some competitive forum, shall we?

 

No innuendos have been made although this is the second time you've made that claim. What you got drilled for here was making an unsupported generalization about one of your competitors.

 

I was also very specific in another criticism. You said and continue to say on your site that your non-VA clients are exempt from sales tax. You even list this as the #1 reason to do business with you. This is absolutely incorrect. The fact that you are not required (or even permitted) to collect sales taxes from your out-of-state clients does not make them tax exempt. The only people who are exempt are residents of Alaska, New Hampshire and Oregon, which have no sales tax. All others owe it directly to their home state tax collectors.

 

If you’ll notice, I not only had no quibble with your post here, I actually defended you. I didn’t bring up that other discussion at all, the original poster did.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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