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Just Got From Amazon!!!


jojousa
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Hey guys, I ordered the ring set last Saturday, and it arrives this Tuesday afternoon!!!! :) Talking about Bizarre purchase experience.

 

Anyways, the basic spec about the diamond is (0.91 Carat, IDEAL, E, VS1, Excellent (polish + symm), although that's what it said on the GIA certificate, I am still going to take for a Jewry Appraisal. I paid around $4900 for the stone, hope I didn't over pay it. One comments on the certificate is about the clarity, something like crystal, indented natural. Is really bad? I have 30days to return to Amazon though.

 

So here is another problem ;) , I felt the stone is sitting too tall (see the attached pics), can someone let me know what do you guys think. Thank you very much.

 

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Cheers,

Chris

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Hi Chris, welcome to the forum.

 

Indented natural means there is a (small) piece of diamond that was not polished since it forms an indentation on the girdle, and polishing it would have cut off too much material from the stone. Crystal means there is an included crystal - it could be another diamond crystal, or a garnet, zircon or diopside one, or something else still. Neither of the two is "bad" per se, it depends on their size, colour and where they are located. Generally, assuming the VS1 grading to be accurate, you should not be able to see anything with the naked eye.

 

I very much second the idea of having the stone seen by an independent appraiser, especially since "Ideal" is not used by GIA as a cut descriptor; the highest cut grade given by GIA is "Excellent". GIA is also insistent that it does not "certify" anything; it provides a report stating certain characteristics of a stone. Perhaps Amazon has simply replaced its own evaluation of cut in its description of the stone on the internet, but if you have been given a non-GIA report... then all the other grading bets are off. Beware that a "certificate" released by a "GIA graduate gemologist" is not the same thing as a GIA report; it may well say the same things, but it does not have the same credibility at all.

 

Lastly the setting - yes, I agree with you, it is too high, and it will most likely snag on delicate woollens, silks and most other things... That's because the setting is clearly a standard head put in a standard shank rather than a custom ring built specifically to accommodate your stone(s). If you have bought the setting separately, and you know a good bench jeweler that can make you a custom setting, I'd say it's worth returning and replacing it. On the other hand, if you haven't got the time to get it replaced, it's a pretty setting and it does the job. You'll have plenty of time to get the whole ring upgraded once you've been married for a bit... ;)

 

Good luck!

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Thanks davidelevi, for your honest opinion.

The certification is from GIA diamond Dossier, so I think it is real. And you are right, the cut grade is listed as Excellent rather than Ideal which was listed on Amazon.

Now, if I take the ring for the appraisal, what are the thing I should say and shouldn't? I kinda just want his opinion so I kind don't want him/her to see the GIA certification in the begining, o/w I am afraid he/she will just spell out what's stated on the report and take a easy $75 from me. ;)

Too bad, I really hope the diamond would be a good one, and even though it can be returned, but i am not certain I would want to start the all new process all over again. sigh.....

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jojo,

 

I'm a newbie at this like you are, and purchased a 'rock' from a dealer on a suggestion from a close friend. Though everything looked like it checked out and the Diamond looked fantastic, I still took it in to an independant appraiser for to confirm that it was what they said it was. The Diamond came with the complete GIA Dossier, but I figured $125 for a full report was worth it to make sure I was doing the right thing.

 

I did some searches locally here in Houston and found someone affiliated with the Jewelry Judge network of appraisers. He came very highly recommended from people and has been an outstanding member of the BBB for 30+ years...I figured I could trust him. Upon arrival, all he wanted to know was the approximate weight. Everything else including dimensions, and ratings would be done without seeing the report. The appraisal and entire process was done right there in front of us and he was happy to answer any questions along the way. Sure enough, his analysis of the diamond was dead on to what the GIA said. He took several photos of the diamond including the inclusions for fingerprinting reasons (so it can be matched later on in life if need be), and did a full computer analysis. The report also included an appraisal on the diamond for insurance purposes. At the end of the 1.5 hour session I left feeling great about my purchase, and with plenty of Diamond knowledge that I only had read about before.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks davidelevi, for your honest opinion.

The certification is from GIA diamond Dossier, so I think it is real. And you are right, the cut grade is listed as Excellent rather than Ideal which was listed on Amazon.

Now, if I take the ring for the appraisal, what are the thing I should say and shouldn't? I kinda just want his opinion so I kind don't want him/her to see the GIA certification in the begining, o/w I am afraid he/she will just spell out what's stated on the report and take a easy $75 from me. ;)

Too bad, I really hope the diamond would be a good one, and even though it can be returned, but i am not certain I would want to start the all new process all over again. sigh.....

Edited by zerind
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Thanks davidelevi, for your honest opinion.

The certification is from GIA diamond Dossier, so I think it is real. And you are right, the cut grade is listed as Excellent rather than Ideal which was listed on Amazon.

Now, if I take the ring for the appraisal, what are the thing I should say and shouldn't? I kinda just want his opinion so I kind don't want him/her to see the GIA certification in the begining, o/w I am afraid he/she will just spell out what's stated on the report and take a easy $75 from me. ;)

Too bad, I really hope the diamond would be a good one, and even though it can be returned, but i am not certain I would want to start the all new process all over again. sigh.....

 

You are welcome. If you have a GIA Diamond Dossier, then everything is fine - or at least, you can be reasonably certain that the stone's weight, colour, clarity and finish are as described, and that it has a pretty decent cut.

 

For the appraisal, I suggest you tell the appraiser exactly the things as they stand - namely that you would appreciate his/her unbiased opinion, and although you have a GIA report you would rather (s)he tell you what (s)he thinks without being influenced by it. You will show him/her the report once (s)he has given you their opinion of the stone, also to make sure the stone in the Dossier is the one they sent you. By the way, since the stone is mounted, be prepared for some uncertainty/difference in many respects, unless you want to go to the extent of having the stone unset and reset. If you do, then check first with Amazon what their return policy is - many stores will not allow you to return an item that has been taken apart and reassembled.

 

It sounds like you already have an appraiser (and a fee) in mind - if you don't, then I think Zerind's approach is very sensible. Also - in terms of the appraisal, make sure you tell the appraiser exactly what you want to use the appraisal for (identification/verification, possibly insurance); this should help him/her to value the stone correctly.

 

By the way - from the stats you have posted, you have a wonderful stone, so don't worry too much about it! If the setting is your concern, see if Amazon will sell you only the stone; there's plenty of people that can find you a setting you like and set the stone in it.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted.

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Thank you all once again, I am really torned on whether to return the ring set, and the same time want to keep the stone. If Amazon can't not provide me a desirable ring setting, then how this can be done. I am afraid I have to either keep as a whole or not getting it at all. And also, if by the chance I am able to get the loose diamond alone, how would I find a local jeweler who can mount the stone on the customized ring setting for me? ;)

Edited by jojousa
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People hire appraisers for a variety of reasons but for new purchases there are a few biggies:

 

#1 Did I get what I thought I got?

#2 Is there anything about this deal that was misrepresented or absent?

#3 Did I pay a reasonable price?

#4 Documentation so that the item can be replaced in the case of a loss.

 

To properly answer any of the first 3 requires the documentation given to you by the jeweler, it requires seeing the dossier, it requires knowing what you paid and it requires knowing what the jeweler has told you. I, of course, understand that there is a worry that the appraiser is simply not going to do their job and read the cert back to you but solving this problem by refusing to provide the necessary information simply undermines your own objectives.

 

What I tell clients is to bring EVERYTHING with them. The lab docs, the receipt, the ‘appraisal’ provided by the jeweler, even the packaging. I then have a conversation before looking at anything about what their objectives are in seeking out the appraisal. In most cases I’ll then grade the stone and afterwards ask to see the lab doc. We then discuss any differences between my grading and theirs as well as confirm that the subject stone is the same one the lab saw and that the differences aren’t a result of damage.

 

We then talk about markets and pricing and again the objectives of the appraisal. When we identify what marketplace they are concerned about, I calculate an estimated value and then look at the receipt. Once again we discuss any differences.

 

The final step is to write the report and assemble it with the various photographs and whatever test results were done. I include a scan of the lab report, the manufacturers warranty information and anything else that will be useful for identifying the piece as ‘genuine’ and that may be necessary for replacement should a loss ever occur. Especially with designer type merchandise and where the replacement is going to be done by a 3rd party (like an insurance company), this information is critical.

 

Sure, it’s possible to write an appraisal report without doing this, and it’s actually easier on the appraiser, but it’s less valuable and less useful to you the client. I suggest that during the appraisal session isn't the time to decide if your appraiser is a fool or if they are going to cheat you out of your appraisal fee. Do some research first. Most have websites that include their resume and available tools, most will be happy to talk to you on the phone and explain why you should be using them. You are hiring them to be YOUR expert and it does you no good to undermine them.

 

Neil

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Thank you all once again, I am really torned on whether to return the ring set, and the same time want to keep the stone. If Amazon can't not provide me a desirable ring setting, then how this can be done. I am afraid I have to either keep as a whole or not getting it at all. And also, if by the chance I am able to get the loose diamond alone, how would I find a local jeweler who can mount the stone on the customized ring setting for me? :unsure:

 

It seems to me that you need to decide whether you want to keep the item - regardless of what the appraisal may say - or not.

 

1. Have you asked Amazon whether they can sell the stone on its own, or change the setting?

 

2. Do you know how much you are paying for the setting? You said you paid $4900 for the stone - or was it for the whole ring?

 

3. If Amazon can change the setting, do they have something you like more? Or something you can get for a couple of hundred $, then choose a better setting together with your fiancee?

 

Finding a jeweler - how about starting at the top of this page ("Find a jeweler" buttons), and giving some people a call to ask whether they could help? Do you have any friends that have recently proposed that could give you a recommendation?

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Thank you all once again, I am really torned on whether to return the ring set, and the same time want to keep the stone. If Amazon can't not provide me a desirable ring setting, then how this can be done. I am afraid I have to either keep as a whole or not getting it at all. And also, if by the chance I am able to get the loose diamond alone, how would I find a local jeweler who can mount the stone on the customized ring setting for me? :unsure:

 

It seems to me that you need to decide whether you want to keep the item - regardless of what the appraisal may say - or not.

 

1. Have you asked Amazon whether they can sell the stone on its own, or change the setting?

 

2. Do you know how much you are paying for the setting? You said you paid $4900 for the stone - or was it for the whole ring?

 

3. If Amazon can change the setting, do they have something you like more? Or something you can get for a couple of hundred $, then choose a better setting together with your fiancee?

 

Finding a jeweler - how about starting at the top of this page ("Find a jeweler" buttons), and giving some people a call to ask whether they could help? Do you have any friends that have recently proposed that could give you a recommendation?

 

Hi Davidelev and all, thank you all for your time and effor to help me out here, I am forever greatful. To answer your questions:

 

1. Amazon wouldn't do a switch ring set not sell the loose diamiond now, only option is to return the total ring set.

 

2. I paid $900 for the ring setting.

 

Anyways, just got back from the appraiser. Had a nice experience, overall, the stone matches the certificate and appeared to be a good value. But he agrees that stone is sitting too tall and appears to be unbalanced in viewing :( , and he referred me to this Jeweler down the street.

So I met with the jeweler and basically he told me he can modify the ring for me which involve cutting up the setting and soldering and etc.. And the total cost I am looking at is around $140. Now, I am not so sure if this would be dangerouse to have the ring modified ot not, does any of you have any ideas or suggestions whether ot not to have the ring modified. Tahnk you all.

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How "dangerous" depends on the skill level of the jeweller. Adjusting a setting is a fairly normal operation, but there is a risk involved in unsetting and resetting stones (which I assume would be required), plus the quality of the final result depends on how skilful the metalworker is.

 

It sounds like you trust the appraiser you chose; are you happy to go on just based on his recommendation of a craftsman? Have you seen any work done by this jeweller? Look at the fabrication, the quality of the soldering, the overall design and finish of the pieces, the quality of the stone setting; think of the piece as a sculpture in a fine art gallery. Is it of a quality you'd be happy to buy - rgardless of its price? Is the jeweller going to take responsibility for damage done to the centre stone? Does he require any extra fees for that? Is the $140 including any setting fees?

 

I cannot comment on the cost - the jewelers here are much more qualified than me; however this is one of those cases where doing things too cheaply may turn out to be expensive.

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The modification you’re talking about isn’t all that difficult but, as Davide points out, it does require some specialized tools and skills. Ask the jeweler to see samples of his/her work and inspect them carefully. Most stores will have a showroom that proudly features things that they’ve made. Are the stones set straight? Is it polished in all the recesses or just the high points? Are the prongs tight around the stone? You’re looking for precision craftsmanship more than for designs that you especially like so just ask them to show you something that they’re really proud of and then get seriously picky using a magnifying glass or even a microscope if they have one. $140 is a reasonable fee if it gets the results that you want. A sloppy job is a bad deal even if it’s free.

 

It’s also worth noting that modifying the ring will surely void your return privilege. IF the ring is modified the way the jeweler is suggesting, will it then be what you want? The jeweler can’t easily undo the work and Amazon won’t take it back if you have them do it so it’s not a step to take especially lightly.

 

Neil

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm new and just researching diamonds and came across this site. I see lots of posts about appraisals. From what I have gathered, if it's got a cert and you are sure it's the right diamond, then you could do a self appraisal. Just goto bluenile and search for other diamonds similar to the one you have and you have your stone's value, then add the ring's price by whatever it's metal type is and a little more for the fact it's jewelry. I'm sure that's all insurance will do. They will be replacing it or replacement value for what it was, not giving you appraised value.

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I'm new and just researching diamonds and came across this site. I see lots of posts about appraisals. From what I have gathered, if it's got a cert and you are sure it's the right diamond, then you could do a self appraisal. Just goto bluenile and search for other diamonds similar to the one you have and you have your stone's value, then add the ring's price by whatever it's metal type is and a little more for the fact it's jewelry. I'm sure that's all insurance will do. They will be replacing it or replacement value for what it was, not giving you appraised value.

 

Being sure of whether you have the right diamond between for example a 0.98/F/VVS2 and a 1.02/D/IF with just an untrained eye, a cert and a loupe is quite difficult. And it could cost you thousands.

 

A setting with nice side stones and/or a considerable amount of micropave and/or hand-engraving and/or significant design work could again cost you thousands more than the metal "and a little bit more".

 

Apart from that, you are right. Overinsuring items through inflated appraisal prices only ensures that the consumer pays more, not what the insurance company will pay. But that's precisely the point of an appraisal for insurance purposes - making sure that you (and the insurance company) have an expert's point of view on what the item is and how much it would cost to replace like for like.

 

While as a first approximation what you paid is good enough to answer the value question, there's sometimes too much risk for either party in trusting simply a bill of sale or a customer's word. Most insurance companies will accept a dealer's invoice as an "appraisal", provided the item is clearly described and identified. If you trust your seller entirely, there's nothing wrong with using that. If you want some form of verification, well... looking at Blue Nile is not likely to provide it. I did a little search yesterday for another thread here - 30+ same grade stones around 1ct, price differences of >40%. Which one is yours?

 

And for anyone who is wondering - I am not an appraiser. ^_^

Edited by davidelevi
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I'm new and just researching diamonds and came across this site. I see lots of posts about appraisals. From what I have gathered, if it's got a cert and you are sure it's the right diamond, then you could do a self appraisal. Just goto bluenile and search for other diamonds similar to the one you have and you have your stone's value, then add the ring's price by whatever it's metal type is and a little more for the fact it's jewelry. I'm sure that's all insurance will do. They will be replacing it or replacement value for what it was, not giving you appraised value.

Hi Frost,

 

I guess it depends on what you want the appraisal for. Did you actually read the above discussion? You are absolutely correct that anyone who can count can come up with a bottom line number. I certainly agree that anyone who has recently purchased something knows what it cost and shopping for offers of comparable items on most items is pretty easy. In that sense I agree with you. Complying with insurance company requirements is also usually pretty easy. On new purchases the sales receipt is often all that’s required to meet their requirements and on older pieces it’s usually not all that hard to find someone who calls themselves a jeweler who can assist you in making up a number. Many will do it very cheaply and most sellers will even do it for ‘free’. There are even websites where you can fill in the blanks and effectively do exactly what you suggest and produce an official looking document that your insurer will probably accept, at least at the beginning.

 

The rest of your statement is a little more problematic. It’s true that most insurance companies are agreeing to replace lost items rather than to cut a check for the limit of the policy in the case of a loss but replace with what? Like kind and quality, right? What’s that? It’s the description on the appraisal. For most people, a replacement with the cheapest diamond they can find that meets the minimum specs on your cert would not be sufficient although this does depend on what you bought. This is that +/- 40% issue that Davide mentioned above. Similarly, Any old mounting with the appropriate metal type is likely to not be considered satisfactory. A decent description is something you COULD do yourself as well but most people don’t seem to take the trouble. Measure everything, take lots of photos, get model numbers and serial numbers where available and you’re most of the way there.

 

Then there’s the problem of reliability of information (for the company). The company, quite reasonably, is going to be interested in independent witness that the item exists, that it’s accurately described, that there are no craftsmanship defects, that it’s not already damaged at the beginning of the contract, etc. Surely it doesn’t come as a surprise that insurance applicants submitting ‘self-appraisals’ would not be considered a very reliable source for this sort of information. Personally I think consumers should be more worried about this than insurers and that few are skilled at recognizing defects and potential problems. Heck, I find that few JEWELERS are skilled at recognizing potential problems but I’m hardly an unbiased observer on this question.

 

Do you need an appraisal for a new purchase? Often not. If you trust your dealer to provide you complete and accurate information and are 100% confident in their quality control you probably don’t. Even in these cases, you’re probably better off letting them document everything rather than doing it yourself. Most will do it for free or inexpensively. If the can’t or won’t do this, why again are you trusting them?

 

Neil

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