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Couple Of Questions Before I Buy


Almost There
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I'm currently shopping around in the $3K +- $500 range for a 3/4 ct round cut diamond ring. I found one at a Gordon's Jeweler's that is thier "Celebration Diamond" which supposedly has 102 facets (far more than the Leo or most others). Does this really matter? How does this affect value? I know everyone has thier "branded" diamonds. The basic specs are below i don't have a copy of the report

 

Price $3288 (original price $4200)

Setting is 18K white Gold/Platinum Head

 

Diamond is GIA Certified

Size: .76 ct

Cut: Excellent

Color: I

Clarity: SI2

 

It also had a Gemex report and but i can't remember the stats. I'll check again when i go back. Is this a big deal? I understand it's supposed to measure the scintilization, White light, and color light, but is that something that should weigh heavily on choice and pricing?

 

Another place i looked at and liked but am questioning is Ultra Diamonds. I'm going to look again at the diamonds on Friday since i've learned quite a bit visiting different jewlers.

 

Is Ultra Diamonds Canadian Collection (EGL Cert i know isn't supposed to be as good) a couple

 

First:

 

Price: $2788

Setting: 14kt white gold

Cut: Excellent (Supposedly Laser cut?)

Size: .71 ct

Color: G-H

Clarity: SI3 (How is this usually compared to GIA or something? I1?)

 

Second

 

Price: $3199

Setting: 18kt white gold

Cut: Excellent (Supposedly Laser cut?)

Size: .73 ct

Color: H-I

Clarity: SI1

 

Comments: I kinda liked the idea with the Ultra Candian diamonds, knowing exactly where they were mined and all. To me it's kinda like a "peace" diamond compared to a "blood" diamond chance. When did the Canadians ever fight with anyone? :unsure: Plus they give you a really nice presentation wood jewelry box (i'm not dumb enough to buy a diamond based on this but it is a perk). Anyone have any suggestions or preferences for the Ultra Candadian Diamonds?

Edited by Almost There
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I went to the website. What assurance is the diamond Canadian? (other then apparently having a maple leaf laser engraved in the girdle?)

 

All reputable canadian diamond manufactures provide their own paperwork including some sort of serial number, and that diamond is tracelable, and an audit can be initiated by an inquiry with the Canadian government. If there is no paperwork with some sort of serial number or lot number, etc, it's impossible to trace the true origin.

 

Click here for more info:

http://www.canadiandiamondcodeofconduct.ca...information.htm

 

Below copied from their website:

 

What should I ask for if I want to buy a Canadian diamond?

A polished diamond certificate/report and an invoice which contains the following information:

 

  • the polished diamond description
  • a unique Diamond Identification Number (DIN);
  • a statement of certification that the polished diamond(s) is of Canadian origin and address of the issuer of the certificate/report;
  • the retailer’s return policy;
  • the date of purchase; and
  • the name and address of the retailer.

Edited by Adylon
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Also what EGL lab issued this report? EGL-USA (Toronto or Vancouver) or EGL-International? If it's not Toronto or Vancouver something smells awfully fishy. Ask for a copy of the lab report. I would like to see if it's EGL-USA or not, which lab, and how it's being described as "Excellent" cut.

Edited by Adylon
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Yosef,

 

Ultra is a big chain of mall type jewelers ala Zales or Fred Meyers. That comes with it's own blessings and it's own baggage but I would NOT expect them to be misrepresenting Canadian origin. If they claim it's Canadian in origin and 'conflict free', I believe them.

 

Neil

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" 3/4 ctw Canadian Diamond Solitaire G-J, SI in 18k "

 

There is a big difference in cost between a G and a J color. Big range there really. For that kind of money you can get a legitimate lab report (GIA) with an accurate grade and in a higher quality. I`d say keep shopping.

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All reputable canadian diamond manufactures provide their own paperwork including some sort of serial number, and that diamond is tracelable, and an audit can be initiated by an inquiry with the Canadian government. If there is no paperwork with some sort of serial number or lot number, etc, it's impossible to trace the true origin.

 

Can we track a diamond in the situation then?

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Hey Neil, If you say they're a big chain and can be trusted (I haven't seen/heard of them in my area) I believe you :) Even assuming it is a Canadian diamond though, as a consumer I'd still want some documentation for proof or origin. This is standard for every Canadian diamond brand out there. What's the point of buying a Canadian diamond if you don't have a third party that authenticated/certified the origin which can then be audited? (preferrably by the Canadian government)

 

If it is Canadian (and I assume it is) I hope it's not priced at a premium to what you'd expect to pay for a Canadian diamond that's fully traceable with origin documents. Even for the sake of resale value...It's just like having a quality lab report to back up the claim of quality, you'd want the right documents to back up origin as well should you ever decide to sell it, trade up, etc.

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All reputable canadian diamond manufactures provide their own paperwork including some sort of serial number, and that diamond is tracelable, and an audit can be initiated by an inquiry with the Canadian government. If there is no paperwork with some sort of serial number or lot number, etc, it's impossible to trace the true origin.

 

Can we track a diamond in the situation then?

 

 

Yes. If you buy a diamond from a diamond supplier that complies with the Canadian Code of Conduct (and all major Canadian diamond brands do, as well as some independant Canadian retailers, etc). You contact the government agency that runs the CCoC and they will ask the diamond supplier to prove/authenticate the origin of the diamond. They will need to go through their paperwork to trace it back to when it was plucked out of the earth. Obviously this is not something your average retailer wants to do, so it's much easier to work with a Canadian diamond brand, which most get their diamonds from CanadaMark, which is a BHP Billiton mining company who would have records of when the diamond was discovered and cataloged.

 

Failure by any CCoC member to respond to a consumers request to prove the origin of the diamond can result in fines or expulsion from the CCoC program.

 

In Canada it's actually ILLEGAL for a diamond retailer to advertise their diamonds as "Canadian" in origin if they're not a CCoC member.

 

From their webpage:

How can I request the authentication of the Canadian diamond I purchased?

Contact the Canadian Diamond Code Office at 1-866-399-1118 or 1-416-363-2968 or by e-mail at info@canadiandiamondcodeofconduct.ca. You will be asked to provide the information described above and a payment of $25.00 + GST for up to two diamonds per piece of Jewellery or $50.00 + GST for three or more diamonds per piece of jewellery. Upon receiving the required information and payment of the administration fee, the Code Office will confirm whether or not the necessary steps were taken by all levels of the trade to meet the minimum requirements outlined in the Code.

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Just to go further, there are 2 ways to authenticate a diamond is Canadian in Orign, one is compliance with the CCoC.

 

Another is to actually have the diamond CERTIFIED by the Canadian government. This is done by some diamond brands like Polar Bear. The North West Territiories are the ones issuing this document.

 

The CCoC compliance is like innocent until proven guilty. If the diamond retailer were unscrupulous, they could sell "Canadian" diamonds from somewhere else until they got caught and kicked out of the CCoC and fined. Obviously this is very unlikely to happen from a reputable Canadian diamond brand company. Candian diamonds that are traced through this method are sometimes cut and polished outside of Canada.

 

The other method is more bulletproof because each diamond is certified by the governemnt before it enters the finished supply chain because they oversee the operation from the time the diamond is mined to polished and they issue their own certificate. All diamonds are cut/polished within the NWT in Canada.

 

But no matter which method is used by the retailer or diamond brand/manufacturer, it should be traceable.

Edited by Adylon
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Hey Neil, If you say they're a big chain and can be trusted (I haven't seen/heard of them in my area) I believe you :)

 

Yosef,

 

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not recommending them, I don't recommend dealers at all because I consider it a conflict of interest for an appraiser to do so, I'm just pointing out that the large outfits that make specific product claims like that tend to be careful about it. It's sort of like a claim from Kmart that they are selling diamonds set in genuine 10k gold for an attractive price. There are likely to be some issues but you can take the karatage to the bank and you can safely bet that the stones are indeed diamonds.

 

I absolutely agree that there are plenty of funny things going on here that raise a red flag.

 

I'm also not a big fan of the whole 'Buy Canadian because it's doing people in Africa a favor' logic. Canada is a wonderful place and by all means give them your business if you want but the key to African benefication is not through boycotting their products. Avoiding conflict diamonds is really pretty easy although it does depend on how you define the term and what standard of evidence you require. EVERY legitimate dealer in the US or Canada (or most of the rest of the world) can do it with no problems and with no extra charge. Any customer who is concerned, and everyone should be, should ask their jeweler about it. The problems in Africa are far from over but the solution lies in Africa, not in Canada.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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Are you kidding me? A hokey 75% off sale and a G-J color range??? I don't see anything honest about those sales tactics. I would run away from that.

 

 

I added the link just for reference i'm not purchasing through the web site if i even do. They have an outlet store close to where i live. The part in the bottom of my question is the actual measures given for the diamonds i was looking at in person. I uploaded a screen grab from the web site that shows that the diamonds come with a certificate of authanticity from Canada. This might be the document that was referenced earlier in the thread.

 

Also does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on the first diamond i mentioned in the thread? Thanks!!!

post-115664-1212670506_thumb.jpg

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The problems in Africa are far from over but the solution lies in Africa, not in Canada.

 

This reminds me of a time I was at a Canadian diamond supplier's office in Toronto 5-6 years ago and a jeweler who happened to be there whowas saying he was going to Africa to buy some Canadian diamonds, and he was laughing about it and so proud of himself and it really made me sick. I later found out that jeweler was in a booth downtown in Toronto selling tourists "Canadian diamonds" with his own certificate he had printed out with a Canadian maple leaf on it, etc. Hopefully that guy got what he deserved. So the problems of people abusing the system don't just lie in Africa, it's all over the world.

 

I agree with you boycotting African's doesn't help either. I think a certificate of origin, from a reputable company goes a long way. It doesn't have to be from Canada. I know Rand owns a mine in Africa and they have worked very closely with the government there.... now they give certificates of origin that show pictures of the rough stone, the cutter who cut/polished their diamond, and gives a little history of every stone they sell, like a birth certificate. This is how all operations should be, and I suspect as synthetic diamonds become more proliferated, made in larger sizes and technologies advance, these certificate of origin documents will become more demanded by natural diamond buyers.

 

Right now if you want assurance your diamond is conflict free, yes you can just work with a very well established and trusted jeweler who complies with the Kimberly Process. But if you want 100% assurance the diamond is conflict free you only have 3 choices right now, 1) Buy a Canadian diamond, preferrably certified by the Canadian government, 2) buy from elsewhere with a certificate of origin that gaurantees the stone is conflict free, or 3) Buy a synthetic diamond. For most the easiest is just to go with route #1.

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