Jump to content

V Colored Stone


sugartee
 Share

Recommended Posts

That’s quite a gift. ;)

 

You should get it appraised. An online guess will do you more harm than good. That’s going to be worth a fair amount of money and you should consider getting it insured. Equally importantly, there may be some tax affects associated with the estate. You should also make sure that the appraiser understands the question being asked. Any statement of value must contain an element of what it’s worth to whom, when and under what circumstances or it's not very useful informmation. Appraisals for taxes, for resale and for insurance are different sorts of issues.

 

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing we can tell for sure from your description is that the report is a Non GIA ...rendering it virtually useless...

 

GIA grades U-V as a color ( not V as a separate color)

Therefore, Neil's advice to have it professionally appraised is doubly important.

If you have it looked at by a qualified person, it's likely they will reccomend sending the diamond to GIA for a proper report.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you really certain that it's a diamond? Who issued the 'certificate'?

 

Neil

Thanks for the help.Yes I am certain it is a diamond. It has been in the family for years. It was given a certification last in the 90s by a jeweller that looked at it, the certificate as well as the stone are in the bank. I don't know if it GIA, didn't notice but will check. I did notice however that cut was reffered to as very good and so was another thing. Thanks for the help. Will try to have it appraised. Don't really know much about jewelry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing we can tell for sure from your description is that the report is a Non GIA ...rendering it virtually useless...

 

GIA grades U-V as a color ( not V as a separate color)

Therefore, Neil's advice to have it professionally appraised is doubly important.

If you have it looked at by a qualified person, it's likely they will reccomend sending the diamond to GIA for a proper report.

 

 

I don't remember the letterhead of the report but there was a chart of the color and clarity in the upper part of the report then the report itself. I have it in the bank with the stone will go back and check it when I have time. Thanks for the advise

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s quite a gift. :rolleyes:

 

You should get it appraised. An online guess will do you more harm than good. That’s going to be worth a fair amount of money and you should consider getting it insured. Equally importantly, there may be some tax affects associated with the estate. You should also make sure that the appraiser understands the question being asked. Any statement of value must contain an element of what it’s worth to whom, when and under what circumstances or it's not very useful informmation. Appraisals for taxes, for resale and for insurance are different sorts of issues.

 

Neil

 

Thanks for the advise

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s quite a gift. :rolleyes:

 

You should get it appraised. An online guess will do you more harm than good. That’s going to be worth a fair amount of money and you should consider getting it insured. Equally importantly, there may be some tax affects associated with the estate. You should also make sure that the appraiser understands the question being asked. Any statement of value must contain an element of what it’s worth to whom, when and under what circumstances or it's not very useful informmation. Appraisals for taxes, for resale and for insurance are different sorts of issues.

 

Neil

 

 

Hi Neil

I am new to this whole thing but I have noticed a lot of your postings and you seem to be quite knowledgeable about diamonds. I am currently looking for a 2 carat asscher cut (square emerald cut as it says on the GIA reports). I know I should get at least G color or better, VS2 clarity or better and I have all of the other specifications as well. I have heard though about a cut corner step or something sounding like that. My question to you is do you think that I should be asking for a square emerald cut or that step cut corner thing that I have heard mentioned on this site? I am somewhat confused and could use your advice. Thank you for your help Neil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't remember the letterhead of the report but there was a chart of the color and clarity in the upper part of the report then the report itself. I have it in the bank with the stone will go back and check it when I have time. Thanks for the advise

 

 

That's kind of like saying...." I remember there was some green pieces of paper with numbers on them"

That could either be $1 million ...OR Monopoly money

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David,

 

Be nice. Assuming that this stone has been owned by the family for a while, it's not surprising that it doesn't have a GIA grading report and, assuming that it's not being either bought, sold or taxed, there's not actually much pressure to get one. People use the word 'certificate' rather lightly and there are those of us in the trade who have become sensitized to it but we know nothing about this document, who produced it, when, under what circumstances or why. To say it's akin to monopoly money is being terribly unfair.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s quite a gift. :rolleyes:

 

You should get it appraised. An online guess will do you more harm than good. That’s going to be worth a fair amount of money and you should consider getting it insured. Equally importantly, there may be some tax affects associated with the estate. You should also make sure that the appraiser understands the question being asked. Any statement of value must contain an element of what it’s worth to whom, when and under what circumstances or it's not very useful informmation. Appraisals for taxes, for resale and for insurance are different sorts of issues.

 

Neil

 

 

Hi Neil

I am new to this whole thing but I have noticed a lot of your postings and you seem to be quite knowledgeable about diamonds. I am currently looking for a 2 carat asscher cut (square emerald cut as it says on the GIA reports). I know I should get at least G color or better, VS2 clarity or better and I have all of the other specifications as well. I have heard though about a cut corner step or something sounding like that. My question to you is do you think that I should be asking for a square emerald cut or that step cut corner thing that I have heard mentioned on this site? I am somewhat confused and could use your advice. Thank you for your help Neil.

 

NikkiA,

 

Thanks for the kind words. I'll put together something of an answer for you but please start your own thread rather than hijaking Sugartees.

 

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My intention is always to be nice Neil.

 

sugartee- Please excuse my analogy if it was flippant.

In fact, everything you say indicates the diamond does NOT have a GIA report- and that is crucial to you in trying to determine exactly what you have.

 

Our company deals extensivley in stones of these colors- If it is a 40 carat faint yellow natural diamond, it's going to be worth some real money. Mind you , the value will be a fraction ogf what a high color ( colorless) or darker yellow ( such as an intense) would be...

Edited by diamondsbylauren
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Are you really certain that it's a diamond? Who issued the 'certificate'?

 

Neil

Thanks for the help.Yes I am certain it is a diamond. It has been in the family for years. It was given a certification last in the 90s by a jeweller that looked at it, the certificate as well as the stone are in the bank. I don't know if it GIA, didn't notice but will check. I did notice however that cut was reffered to as very good and so was another thing. Thanks for the help. Will try to have it appraised. Don't really know much about jewelry

 

 

Hi Neil,

I was finally able to go to the bank to check. The report was issued in 1986 but not GIA although at the 2 sides of the letterhead are what look like diplomas or certificates by GIA to the jeweller.They used the gemolite and the diamond lite using GIA master comparison stones.Would that make it more reliable? Thanks for the help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it doesn’t.

 

GIA used to be primarily a college, not a grading lab and this means that it was graded by one of their graduates. This is not a bad thing in and of itself (I’m a GIA graduate, as are most of the other appraisers in the US) and in 1986 labwork was a bit less critical so I wouldn’t hold it against your jeweler that they did it this way but it would not hold up in 2008. I would be very surprised if an insurance company would bind a policy on the basis of this, the IRS would probably not accept it for estate or charitable contribution purposes and there’s no way that it would be bought or sold with this sort of paperwork. Any statement of value has to have an element of what something is worth to whom, when, and under what circumstances or it’s not useful information. Once again, if this is a taxable estate matter you need to get it appraised by a pro and the sooner the better. There's quite likely already a problem because the estate representative or trustee didn't already do it. Is this in the US? Do you know if the estate filed a tax return? If you’re considering selling it and are evaluating your options, you need to get it appraised by a pro and, before anyone buys it you will need to send it to the lab.

 

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm in total agreement with Neil.

If you can find someone you trust locally to show it to, that's a good first step.

You might also consider skipping that one and simply sending the diamond to GIA....

 

If you wanted to call them to find out how to send the diamond, and pricing.....

Carlsbad Information 760-603-4500

New York City Information 212-221-5858

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually disagree with the suggestion of starting out with GIA. On a 40 carater, their fee will be over $2,000 and depending on things like the exact weight, how the shipping is handled, what services are requested and whether they decide that it’s actually a light fancy, it maybe more like $5,000 in costs and take months before it’s all done. If it's mounted in a piece of jewelry, GIA is going to require that it be removed before sending it to them and this is definitely not something you want to do yourself. If there’s no tax issue, there’s no plan to sell and there’s no intention to insure it, an appraisal may be just what’s required at 1/10th the price without any of the risks of damage or loss. Even if the plan is to tax sell or insure it, an appraisal is still going to be appropriate and quite possibly even required. Seeking out professional assistance in a situation like this has almost no downside and usually comes at a negligible cost. In my opinion, this kind of thing is where appraisers can be the MOST useful. I and many other appraisers are even prepared to do our inspection right in the bank vault so both the time requirements and the risks involved with the shipping it to and from the lab are eliminated. If it’s been 20 years and at least one change of owner since this has been done, this is hands down the way to start.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually disagree with the suggestion of starting out with GIA. On a 40 carater, their fee will be over $2,000 and depending on things like the exact weight, how the shipping is handled, what services are requested and whether they decide that it’s actually a light fancy, it maybe more like $5,000 in costs and take months before it’s all done. If it's mounted in a piece of jewelry, GIA is going to require that it be removed before sending it to them and this is definitely not something you want to do yourself. If there’s no tax issue, there’s no plan to sell and there’s no intention to insure it, an appraisal may be just what’s required at 1/10th the price without any of the risks of damage or loss. Even if the plan is to tax sell or insure it, an appraisal is still going to be appropriate and quite possibly even required. Seeking out professional assistance in a situation like this has almost no downside and usually comes at a negligible cost. In my opinion, this kind of thing is where appraisers can be the MOST useful. I and many other appraisers are even prepared to do our inspection right in the bank vault so both the time requirements and the risks involved with the shipping it to and from the lab are eliminated. If it’s been 20 years and at least one change of owner since this has been done, this is hands down the way to start.

 

Neil

 

Thanks Neil. The stone is not in the US although it was in California in the 80s. The stone has been in the family for over 50 years. I am not planning to sell it but was just curious about the price of such a stone. Thanks again for all the help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No question an appraiser could provide a valuable service here (if you find the right one...)- your point about costs is well taken..however..if the idea is to sell it, I believe the GIA report is going to be essential if the seller wants to maximize his return.....

 

 

Thanks for the help, I am not planning to sell it, was just curious about the value of the stone.Thanks again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was actually wondering if the estate was in the US although I must admit that I assumed that the stone was with the paperwork in the bank and that you, the bank and the decedent were all here. The tax issue is a big deal almost everywhere and messing up on the rules can end up costing a huge amount of money. This is a question for your tax advisor and I suggest you ask it soon, there are filing deadlines on these things. Depending on where the stone physically is, an onsite appraisal may be a little more complicated as well, especially if it's a US estate and the stone is located overseas.

 

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the help, I am not planning to sell it, was just curious about the value of the stone.Thanks again.

I'd say that a "retail" value on such a stone could be about $10k per carat....although it would certainly be extremely difficult to sell......

If it was a strong color, say fancy intense yellow, it would be worth exponentially more, but I feel easier to sell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was actually wondering if the estate was in the US although I must admit that I assumed that the stone was with the paperwork in the bank and that you, the bank and the decedent were all here. The tax issue is a big deal almost everywhere and messing up on the rules can end up costing a huge amount of money. This is a question for your tax advisor and I suggest you ask it soon, there are filing deadlines on these things. Depending on where the stone physically is, an onsite appraisal may be a little more complicated as well, especially if it's a US estate and the stone is located overseas.

 

Neil

 

 

thanks for the advise. I don't think there is a rush about the tax issue because it was passed on to me more than inherited since the original owner ,my mom is still alive and just passed it on to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the help, I am not planning to sell it, was just curious about the value of the stone.Thanks again.

I'd say that a "retail" value on such a stone could be about $10k per carat....although it would certainly be extremely difficult to sell......

If it was a strong color, say fancy intense yellow, it would be worth exponentially more, but I feel easier to sell.

 

 

 

Thanks for the rough estimate. I know the diamond grading report may not be accurate but it rated the stone at IF clarity no graining, v in the s-z color grading of light yellow with weak blue flourescence . polish and symmetry vg at 41.96 carats. So its not a fancy intense yellow (but how I wish it were).Hopefully I will never have to sell it and pass it on to my kids. Thanks again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks for the advise. I don't think there is a rush about the tax issue because it was passed on to me more than inherited since the original owner ,my mom is still alive and just passed it on to me.

Not to keep beating a dead horse here but, for the benefit of other readers, this doesn’t answer the tax question. More specifically it doesn’t address your Mom’s tax questions, at least not if your Mom is a US resident. The gift tax in the US is different from the estate tax in some complicated ways and it’s largely a matter between her and the taxman, not you but when it will come up is when she eventually pass on and it's necessary to file an estate tax return on her behalf. I continue to recommend professional tax advice and I think it’s likely that this will lead to needing a professional ‘fair market value’ appraisal as of the date of the gift. A free Internet opinion from someone who hasn't seen the stone that is based on a grading done in 1986 by an unknown grader and done under unknown circumstances is not sufficient.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
  • Create New...