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Ideal Asscher?


AsscherLover
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Hello!

I've fell in love with the asscher cut while at an antique store my friend works at in New York. I had never seen a diamond so classic and elegant looking. All my friends get round or princess cut diamonds, but I've always wanted something different.

 

Anyhow, I've been researching Asscher diamonds for a few weeks now and I've heard people say things like "That's a horrible cut" what dimensions or parameters should I be looking for? I found this attached chart online as a guideline for asschers, any other things I should look for?

 

I'm looking for an asscher that is 1.5 to 2.0 carats under $10,000. I know, not the hugest budget, but for me, as long as it looks good to me, I don't need a perfect stone, but would prefer a larger one. I have heard all the arguments about getting a smaller stone that is of higher quality, but honestly, I'm not too picky and as long as it looks great on my hand and my boyfriend likes it, I'm sold. To me, it's like why by a smaller size dress if a larger size works the same, it's not like people will be looking at your tags (since women like to say they are a size 4, when they are really a size 6).

 

Any educational tidbits you could pass along, would be much appreciated! I have been told I should buy a GIA certified ring over the rest, and that I should try to get a higher clarity (VS2 or higher) ring if possible since step cut flaws may be able to be seen more easily.

post-114538-1199065848_thumb.jpg

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I agree, I love Asschers. I tend to like best the ones with a ‘hall of mirrors’ sort of feel to them that makes you want to look down the tunnel. You want something with relatively even brightness throughout the stone with a good contrast of alternating light and dark that wink at you when you move the stone. You want minimal light leakage and with windmills (that’s the reflections that go from corner to corner and look sort of like a windmill vane) that appeal to you. I like them medium to a bit large but this is purely a matter of taste.

 

I don’t find the chart you posted to be very useful since none of the things I like are mentioned. You have to look at the stones. Since you’re buying online you need to make the deal contingent on your ability to actually look at the stone, compare it to others and show it to your appraiser before the deal is done. Further, since this involves some shipping and appraisal costs even if you decide against, I would recommend buying from a dealer whose opinion you trust and who can actually inspect the stones themselves before they ship it on to you or your appraiser. This reduces (but doesn’t eliminate) the possibility that you’ll need to return it as not the one for you.

 

Neil

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Fancy shapes have to be seen. There are no hard or fast rules or charts that will give you any meaningful information as to how these shapes will face up.

 

You can take two Asschers with similar to same numbers and they may very well look totally different.

 

I would suggest that you visit a large jewelry store in your area that may stock several Asschers and/or can bring in Asscher Cuts for you to look at. You will definitely see differences.

 

If you decide to shop with an on-line Vendor, make sure that they will bring the diamond in and work it up for you.

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Thanks for your help, everyone! I definitely will want to see the diamond before we buy. I try to be as efficient as possible, that's in my nature - I work in technology consulting and am an efficiency expert for project managent processes. I have an excel list of about 30 vendors with about 10 to 14 stones that fall somewhat within my range. I will be flying out to New York or down to LA to view the stones (while on vacation in the next few months), but they are scattered at a ton of different places. I know you can't tell much on paper, but I was hoping to try to narrow down the field before I spent the time to actually go out and look at them. I know for this diamond, I really want to see it first, I don't think I would be ok with just getting it in the mail...I had thought about the eBay or online options, and after reading these boards and such, I wasn't that comfortable with going that route.

 

So...if you had 14 or so diamonds to chose from, and only had time to go to 8 - are there any additional things that you'd try to ask about, or look for in pictures or paper?

 

Thanks again and happy new year!

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I like them medium to a bit large but this is purely a matter of taste.

 

I helped pick out my best friend's ring that we had designed for her by a family jeweler in Kentucky. I chose an asscher for her, too. It does appear that asscher's are very beautiful, but look even better larger. Her fiance ended up getting a SI2 because the inclusion could not be seen (it was hidden by the setting). He opted to go with a larger size (1.7 carats, E) since the ones he looked at that were of higher clarity looked really small. I know size doesn't matter, and I hate to be one of those millions of girls that want a big ring on a small budget, but I do! :D I know that many people would say buy smaller and a higher quality, but I DO LOVE the larger asscher stones! I've seen great looking 1 carat rounds, but I haven't seen smaller asschers that look all that fab.

 

I'm hoping tp find a pretty diamond that looks great, I know I can't seek perfection! Just getting married to the man of my dreams is perfection enough.

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HI Asscherlover,

One way to increase the size, while not sacrificing clarity, OR cut is to buy a lower color.

It's not for everyone but a lot of people actually love the softer white stones better.

 

As an example, here's a stone, with a GIA report

r2362c.JPG

 

ITEM #: R2362

Asscher Cut Diamond, Loose

 

WEIGHT: 1.85ct

SHAPE: Asscher Cut

COLOR: O-P

CLARITY: VS2

MEASUREMENTS: 7.12 x 6.99 x 4.21 mm

TOTAL DEPTH: 60.2%

TABLE SIZE: 65.8%

POLISH: VG

SYMMETRY: VG

FLUORESCENCE: NONE

GIA REPORT #: 16234059

 

Price: $6995

 

As you can see, here's a stone , very cl;ose to 2 carats in weight, yet priced like many high quality 1.00- 1.20 carat stones....

 

I would suggest that if a seller has high quality photos , and a reputation you are comfortable with, flying to NYC, and LA becomes optional.....

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So...if you had 14 or so diamonds to chose from, and only had time to go to 8 - are there any additional things that you'd try to ask about, or look for in pictures or paper?

 

Sure. Pick the dealer first, then pick the stones rather than the reverse. Then just buy one airplane ticket and visit with them in their showroom, office or whatever it that they have for this purpose. Discuss with them in advance what your requirements are and what you would like to see during your session. The majority of what you see advertised online is being sold on behalf of a 3rd party owner and pretty much any dealer can get it. After you find a dealer you want to work with and you find stones elsewhere that look promising, tell them what you’ve found and see what they have to say. Looking at 8 stones in 8 different locations will be frustrating and largely a waste of time and effort.

 

A months notice is a lot to expect someone to hold a particular stone but it gives you plenty of time to choose which dealer you want to be working with.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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I agree with Neil it's very important to pick your dealer well. If you're looking at these diamonds on lists, it's very likely that the dealers have never even seen them.

 

 

Asking for pictures is a good way to check if the dealer actually has the diamond.

Edited by diamondsbylauren
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HI Asscherlover,

One way to increase the size, while not sacrificing clarity, OR cut is to buy a lower color.

It's not for everyone but a lot of people actually love the softer white stones better.

 

As an example, here's a stone, with a GIA report

r2362c.JPG

 

ITEM #: R2362

Asscher Cut Diamond, Loose

 

WEIGHT: 1.85ct

SHAPE: Asscher Cut

COLOR: O-P

CLARITY: VS2

MEASUREMENTS: 7.12 x 6.99 x 4.21 mm

TOTAL DEPTH: 60.2%

TABLE SIZE: 65.8%

POLISH: VG

SYMMETRY: VG

FLUORESCENCE: NONE

GIA REPORT #: 16234059

 

Price: $6995

 

As you can see, here's a stone , very cl;ose to 2 carats in weight, yet priced like many high quality 1.00- 1.20 carat stones....

 

I would suggest that if a seller has high quality photos , and a reputation you are comfortable with, flying to NYC, and LA becomes optional.....

 

HI David,

Thanks for the tips about lowering my parameters on color. This diamond looks great, I'm new to diamond grading and buying, so why is this an O-P? It looks quite sparkly and white, but on the color scale it says that:

N-O-P-Q-R

Lightly tinted, usually yellow. Tint can be seen with the naked eye.

 

Can you help educate me a little on the color scale? Thanks!

 

I go out to fashion week every year in NYC and have a few friends that are more knowledgeable than me when I it comes to diamonds, so I will be dragging them along to the dealers that I narrow down. I'm leaning towards a NY diamond since we could save on sales tax that way.

 

Thanks again for your help!

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Sure. Pick the dealer first, then pick the stones rather than the reverse. Discuss with them in advance what your requirements are and what you would like to see during your session. After you find a dealer you want to work with and you find stones elsewhere that look promising, tell them what you’ve found and see what they have to say.

 

I will definitely work on trying to "feel" out the dealers.

 

The best pricing and correspondence so far seems to have come from the below companies:

 

Cut Rate Diamonds

 

Impact Diamonds

 

ID Jewelry - I believe I've seen some good posts from Yekutiel on this site

 

Union Diamond

 

MY Solitaire

 

I found these dealers online through referrals and other message sites. Anyone have any comments on these dealers? I had a huge list, and have narrowed it down to these so far. I have to call a few other people that told me I needed to call a few weeks before heading to NY to check their stock.

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Asking for pictures is a good way to check if the dealer actually has the diamond.

 

David,

 

This is becoming less and less a reliable test although I agree that there are other things that can be learned from a photo so it's a worthwhile thing to ask anyway. Several of the 'virtual' diamond providers are learning to take pictures and can provide them to their dealers along with a scan of the lab report and sometimes even Sarin data.

Frankly it surprises me a bit there isn't a ton of this going on.

 

Neil

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HI Asscherlover,

One way to increase the size, while not sacrificing clarity, OR cut is to buy a lower color.

It's not for everyone but a lot of people actually love the softer white stones better.

 

As an example, here's a stone, with a GIA report

r2362c.JPG

 

ITEM #: R2362

Asscher Cut Diamond, Loose

 

WEIGHT: 1.85ct

SHAPE: Asscher Cut

COLOR: O-P

CLARITY: VS2

MEASUREMENTS: 7.12 x 6.99 x 4.21 mm

TOTAL DEPTH: 60.2%

TABLE SIZE: 65.8%

POLISH: VG

SYMMETRY: VG

FLUORESCENCE: NONE

GIA REPORT #: 16234059

 

Price: $6995

 

As you can see, here's a stone , very cl;ose to 2 carats in weight, yet priced like many high quality 1.00- 1.20 carat stones....

 

I would suggest that if a seller has high quality photos , and a reputation you are comfortable with, flying to NYC, and LA becomes optional.....

 

HI David,

Thanks for the tips about lowering my parameters on color. This diamond looks great, I'm new to diamond grading and buying, so why is this an O-P? It looks quite sparkly and white, but on the color scale it says that:

N-O-P-Q-R

Lightly tinted, usually yellow. Tint can be seen with the naked eye.

 

Can you help educate me a little on the color scale? Thanks!

 

I go out to fashion week every year in NYC and have a few friends that are more knowledgeable than me when I it comes to diamonds, so I will be dragging them along to the dealers that I narrow down. I'm leaning towards a NY diamond since we could save on sales tax that way.

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

the color scale:

imagine a glass of totally clear, pure water. that's a D color

now let's imagine that we have a drop of lemon juice to this water.

It's still totally clear just with a very slight tinted yellow. You might not even notice it if you didn't hold it next to a glass of water with no lemon drop.

As we add more pure lemon to the water, it gets slightly yellower and yellower. It stays totally clear just with increasingly more color, as we had more lemon.

Diamond colors are kind of like that in the best case scenario.

for many people it's impossible to see the subtle differences between the colors, while other people seem to notice this easily.

This particular diamond which has a tint that's slightly visible under almost any lighting conditions ( About one quarter cup of lemon juice:), but sometimes it even looks white.

a large factor in the diamonds appearance as the way it's into a ring. If we set this diamond with some icy White diamonds right next to it it will probably look pretty yellow. If we set it in a White Gold solitaire setting all by itself, it probably won't look all that yellow.

 

As far as sales-tax something to consider is the fact that it's legally binding to the seller to charge sales tax if you walk into a store and picked up the merchandise. Under current laws, if a diamond is shipped out of state from the state where the company exists, no sales tax may be charged.

I'm sure you might find some people would be willing to avoid sales tax and play some games, but I would suggest that that might not necessarily be the type of person that you want to buy a large ticket items from.

 

Neil:

That's a great point. It would be easy to just take a single photo and e-mail it to 20 dealers who could then e-mail it to hundreds of potential customers.

A lot of people ask us for comparison shots where we have to take pictures of two diamonds from the site next to each other.

Or they might ask us to take a picture of the diamond next-to a ruler or dime or something else specific. I think those are both good methods for finding out if the person actually has the diamonds or they're just e-mailing a picture someone e-mailed to them.

Edited by diamondsbylauren
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the color scale:

imagine a glass of totally clear, pure water. that's a D color

now let's imagine that we have a drop of lemon juice to this water.

It's still totally clear just with a very slight tinted yellow. You might not even notice it if you didn't hold it next to a glass of water with no lemon drop.

As we add more pure lemon to the water, it gets slightly yellower and yellower. It stays totally clear just with increasingly more color, as we had more lemon.

Diamond colors are kind of like that in the best case scenario.

for many people it's impossible to see the subtle differences between the colors, while other people seem to notice this easily.

This particular diamond which has a tint that's slightly visible under almost any lighting conditions ( About one quarter cup of lemon juice:), but sometimes it even looks white.

a large factor in the diamonds appearance as the way it's into a ring. If we set this diamond with some icy White diamonds right next to it it will probably look pretty yellow. If we set it in a White Gold solitaire setting all by itself, it probably won't look all that yellow.

 

As far as sales-tax something to consider is the fact that it's legally binding to the seller to charge sales tax if you walk into a store and picked up the merchandise. Under current laws, if a diamond is shipped out of state from the state where the company exists, no sales tax may be charged.

I'm sure you might find some people would be willing to avoid sales tax and play some games, but I would suggest that that might not necessarily be the type of person that you want to buy a large ticket items from.

 

Thank you for the GREAT lemon juice analogy! I'll have to go check some of the lower color grades to see if I can tell the difference. I plan on having this ring set in plat or 18K white gold with a diamond on each side, so that may become an issue if the color is noticable The ones I've seen so far are G to I range.

 

As for the sales tax, I would not be buying the diamond myself, I'm the information gatherer. My boyfriend is a not a great researcher (and won't be coming with me to NYC, its a girls weekend!). I'm doing the legwork and he'll make the purchase. Wherever we get the diamond from, it will need to be shipped to California regardless. I definitely wouldn't be a proponent for someone that does anything shady...

 

I told him I'd do the research, because I bet if I left it up to him, he'd walk into a mall store or something along those lines and get taken! He's such a sweet guy, I know thoes jewelers would eat him alive!

 

Thanks again for your help, all very useful tips. Yekutiel Davidov from ID will be sending me a picture of one of his diamonds, he seems like an honest seller on this board, so I'll post it when I get it.

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Every state that has a sales tax also has an identical ‘use’ tax. The taxing authority is your home state of residence, not the state that the merchant is in. If they don’t have an office in your state they aren’t required (or even permitted) to collect and remit the taxes on your behalf but this doesn’t mean that no taxes are owed. Check your home state revenue department website. They will have the filing rules and any forms required. Some states, like California, include it as part of their income tax form and others require a separate filing. There’s quite a bit of misunderstanding on this issue so most of the states make the information fairly easy to find.

 

Here’s the main FAQ page about it for California residents.

 

http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqusetax.htm

 

Neil

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Make sure if you work with an online dealer that they at least *see* the diamond personally before they ship it to you. Also make sure it has a GIA lab report. Asschers have no ideal specs. You really need to see what the facet arrangement looks like before you purchase it.

 

Some of the finest asschers I've seen are cut by the Asscher family in Amsterdam. They are the Royal Asschers.

 

Here is an example of a Royal Asscher next to an unfortunate web choice purchased by numbers only.

 

The Royal Asscher is on the left and the online drop ship stone is on the right.

post-10-1199374392_thumb.jpg

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Every state that has a sales tax also has an identical ‘use’ tax. The taxing authority is your home state of residence, not the state that the merchant is in. If they don’t have an office in your state they aren’t required (or even permitted) to collect and remit the taxes on your behalf but this doesn’t mean that no taxes are owed. Check your home state revenue department website. They will have the filing rules and any forms required. Some states, like California, include it as part of their income tax form and others require a separate filing. There’s quite a bit of misunderstanding on this issue so most of the states make the information fairly easy to find.

 

Here’s the main FAQ page about it for California residents.

 

http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqusetax.htm

 

Neil

 

TOTAL Bummer! I guess I never thought about a Use Tax, since I've known people go to non tax states such as Oregon and WA to buy large purchases. DARN. Oh wells! At least our tax in my county is cheaper than the rest of the state!

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great post Neil.

It's true that residents of many states are actually bound to declare purchases that they've made.

Although I don't know how many people actually do this- it's not up to the seller to do it.

 

As far as Royal Asscher diamonds, they do have a very beautiful look. The problem I found is that they are priced way higher than nonbranded diamonds which might be just as pretty.

 

another aspect to the chart which I disagree with is the fact that each states that an Asscher needs to be a square diamond.

We've had beautiful rectangular diamonds that all the personality of an Asscher cut.

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great post Neil.

It's true that residents of many states are actually bound to declare purchases that they've made.

Although I don't know how many people actually do this- it's not up to the seller to do it.

 

David,

 

It not some, many or even most. Every US customer who would owe sales tax if they made a purchase at a store in the same jurisdiction as their residence will owe tax if they buy from someone from out of state. You're correct that a lot of people don't pay their taxes but the states are getting increasingly aggressive about catching them and I see this trend increasing rapidly. There's quite a bit of money at stake for the various states and they all seem to feel that they need more money. I agree that it's not up to the seller and that in most cases they wouldn't be allowed to collect the tax even if they wanted to, but this just reinforces the widely held mis perception that one of the reasons to buy either online or to shop in person in one of the no-tax states is that it will result in a tax savings. This is simply not correct and it leads to a fair amount of heartache and expense for people who suffer through a state tax audit and find that they owe penalties and interest for failing to pay a tax that they thought they didn't owe.

 

Neil

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