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monsterbash

Can A Diamond Be Re-cut?

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Obvious Newbe here

 

I just purchased a large diamond..it just over 3.5 carrots with an F color (in know.. not a lot of info) and round. I'm not exspecting the best with the cut..is it possible to be re-cut?

 

PS.. I aven't seen the Diamond yet..it should be here later this week

 

thanks!

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Diamonds can always be re-cut/re-polished. However it's usually never economically viable unless damaged/chipped. Anotherwords don't go shopping for a 3.5ct poorly cut stone hoping to get it recut into a 3ct ideal. You probably would have been better off financially just buying the 3ct ideal to begin with.


Yosef Adde

Adylon.com - Diamonds & Bridal Jewelry (Burbank, CA)

http://www.adylon.com

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I used to be a bit of a lapidary a few decades ago and although I’ve never cut a diamond, I did learn a few useful things. One came from cutting opal.

 

Good opal rough is pretty expensive and part of what makes it good is nice layers of colors. As you cut it, any particular colored flash gets better as it gets closer to the surface. As you work the stone just gets better and better until it reaches it’s maximum potential. Then it turns to crap. You can’t go back. A big part of the skill of a good cutter is to recognize that point before it’s too late. Good cutters get that way through tons of practice and they develop what seems like a psychic power about this.

 

The same thing happens with diamonds. It’s a one way street. The big difference is that the material costs a lot more and a learning curve where you screw up a hundred stones before you get it down can get pretty expensive. The cutter can remove material but they can’t put it back. You can’t shape it like clay to be whatever you want. Doing this wisely and well takes a tremendous amount of practice and there’s probably a good reason that your 3.5ct was cut the way it was. Yes, it’s possible to recut stones, and there are people who do it successfully and profitably, but it’s far more complicated than I think you are imagining. I’m with Yosef, it’s almost always a mistake to get into this unless you really know what you’re doing.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Thanks for the reply…there’s a couple reasons why I ask this question. I purchased the Diamond on Ebay (yeah.. I know.. let me have it) item number 260186413670. I feel I got an extremely good deal (I paid $3250 set in 14k gold). It was from a seller (AJDiamonds) with 5700+ feedback, a 100% rating and has been selling since 2003.. After the auction (and it was a true auction..no reserve) he emailed me saying although he personally paid almost 3x for the stone.. he will honor the sale. I did do some research before hand as I know nothing about Diamond. Most peeps say color is more important than clarity. After ready a few actual post I’m starting to learn that the cut makes the stone.

 

 

The stone is ‘independently appraised’ by an unknown company for almost 38k. The weight was a 3.5…color F and Clarity Si3 and was 9.59x.9.57x5.91

 

 

Before I bid\bought I spent a couple hours reading about half of his feedback. He had a lot of (and I mean a lot) ‘Diamond didn’t appraise nearly as high but still got a great deal.’ It seems the general consensus from feedback left is that other buyer were finding their rocks appraising about 60% of what the sellers said.

 

 

The seller also offers full refund up to 14 days after the auction. Judging by feedback left by others..he honors this as it has been referenced a bunch of times

 

 

Even if it only appraises at 50% I think I’m still a head of the game 19k VS the $3250 I paid).

 

 

So..If the stone is cut poorly…is it feasible to have it re-cut at a decent price even if I loose a half carrot or so? I’m thinking if I loose .5 carrot and have to pay a grand or so to have it recut..I would still be WAY a head of the game

 

 

Of course.. I could be totally wrong as I said before..I know NOTHING about this stuff

 

 

Thanks again!

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So..If the stone is cut poorly…is it feasible to have it re-cut at a decent price even if I loose a half carrot or so? I’m thinking if I loose .5 carrot and have to pay a grand or so to have it recut..I would still be WAY a head of the game

 

I guess it depends on what game you’re playing. ‘Appraised for…’ means that someone of unknown qualifications using unknown methodology said that in his/her opinion an unidentified merchant in an unspecified marketplace might ask for $xxx’. (Note: There is no requirement this merchant actually be able to get this price, only that they have the stones to ask.) Is that useful information? I suppose it depends on what you’re objective is. Obviously if he could have gotten $38k, or $19k for that matter, that’s what he would have done. 5700 feedbacks means that your seller has quite a bit of practice at this ‘game’. He knows what’s going on and so does his ‘appraiser’. The only one who is guessing here is you. Would you have made any difference if he had said $70k instead of $38k? What if he had said $3200? If the victory condition of the game is to have an appraisal with the biggest possible number at the bottom, it's much cheaper to just to just write something up yourself and say it's worth a whole lot.

 

I flatly don’t believe that he’s selling a 3 carat stone for 1/3 of his cost on a no reserve auction. NO even moderately experienced dealer would put himself or herself into that position.

 

So, theoretically, you pay a grand on the recut. Now what? You send it to GIA and they call it an excellent 2.35cts/I3/H. Your little sister says it looks like a SI3/F/3.01 and says it's now 'worth' $50,000. Are you up $46,000?

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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HiMonster- I wish you the best.

My company sells millions a year on eBay- but there are a lot of really bad sellers. It is possible to find really good sellers on eBay but there's some pitfalls buyers need to steer clear of.

Please check my eBay feedback- 0 negative, 0 neutral, and 0 withdrawn feedbacks. A neutral is really a soft negative- it's a very bad thing.

One thing you have missed: Withdrawn feedback. You can see this directly below the sellers feedback rating. It's a problem eBay really needs to fix.

What happens is this: The seller is misrepresenting- or doing something else that causes the buyer to leave a negative feedback.

Lo and behold these bad sellers then hold the refund hostage until the buyer withdraws the feedback

This indicates horrible business practices.

How about blatent misrepresentation?

I mean , this seller is so out of bounds in his descriptions it makes it very easy to see that there's misrepresentation.

A "4.00 Fancy Vivid Pink" diamond for $7000?.

I've got a really nice bridge for sale too.......

Another RED FLAG:

How about these $1 no reserve "auctions" on expensive diamonds.

You'll notice however, that all the bidders identities are kept private...why is that? Well, if one wanted to bid up their own auctions they'd need to hide bidder's identities- I can think of NO other reason- and again- we've been selling millions a year on eBay since 1999.

Another thing that would do is make it appear the seller had sold over 5700 items when in fact maybe they'd sold a small fraction of that number.

 

My advice- DO NOT SEND MONEY.

Edited by diamondsbylauren

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I knew this would happen. Once 'Ebay' was brought up the topic would change.. and the focus would be on where and how I bought my ring insted of the question at hand

 

 

If ya wanna look at feedback this guy has 6700 total feed back and a rating of 5700. That mean he has over 1000 repeat customers.

 

Looks like it off to the next forum...i'll be sure not to mention ebay

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Here's your question:

 

Obvious Newbe here

 

I just purchased a large diamond..it just over 3.5 carrots with an F color (in know.. not a lot of info) and round. I'm not exspecting the best with the cut..is it possible to be re-cut?

 

PS.. I aven't seen the Diamond yet..it should be here later this week

 

thanks!

 

Here's the answer, posted a little over 3 hours later:

 

Diamonds can always be re-cut/re-polished. However it's usually never economically viable unless damaged/chipped. Anotherwords don't go shopping for a 3.5ct poorly cut stone hoping to get it recut into a 3ct ideal. You probably would have been better off financially just buying the 3ct ideal to begin with.

 

I knew this would happen. Once 'Ebay' was brought up the topic would change.. and the focus would be on where and how I bought my ring insted of the question at hand

 

Monster,

 

Your question was answered in the very first sentence of the very first reply. Everything else since then has been discussion. The only guy, other than you, who mentioned ebay at all is the one who makes a living selling there.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Thank you Neil.

It's important to note that many other folks may be reading this- so the discussion is very relevant to others- even if monster does not want to discuss how selers represent themselves on eBay. Or in the case of the seller in question- MISrepresent themselves.

 

There's simply no way anyone should trust a seller who's so clearly misrepresenting- such as offering a 4 carat "Vivid Pink" for $7k.

And that is a very important aspect of how people buy diamonds

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I knew this would happen. Once 'Ebay' was brought up the topic would change.. and the focus would be on where and how I bought my ring insted of the question at hand

 

 

If ya wanna look at feedback this guy has 6700 total feed back and a rating of 5700. That mean he has over 1000 repeat customers.

 

Looks like it off to the next forum...i'll be sure not to mention ebay

 

There's nothing wrong with ebay, ALL ebay sellers, etc... but some are very shadey in their selling practices. To be quite honest I know a lot of retailers and even wholesalers that have sold on there to liquidate old stock. I just decided to sell there 2 weeks ago --- not to make a profit --- but to dump some merchandise I want to get rid of. I figure now's a good time being Christmas and all to liquidate stuff. I don't see how anyone can really make a living on there selling QUALITY merchandise, maybe David knows something I don't or because he specializes in fancy colors? :D But if you think you're going to get a BIG, WHITE, CLEAN diamond really cheap on ebay you can basically forget it.

 

Anyhow when you're buying a diamond you have to be extra cautious, especially on ebay.

 

3 things you have to make sure:

 

1) Is their feedback GENUINE? A lot of times they have negatives that are withdrawn like DBL mentioned. So many times they play the numbers game. For example, say 80% of buyers have no clue what they bought, 20% may or will get it appraised. So they figure they'll end up refunding on that 20% and screw the other 80%. Therefor their feedback appears genuine. Or by the time the consumer finds out they've been had, it's too late.

 

2) What is the grading of the diamond and according to WHOM? Diamond grading is an opinion only, and that opinion is only worth as much as the person's reputation. and whether or not they benefit from misgrading the diamond. A seller grading his own merchandise, especially on ebay, is a big red flag. Same with using some unkown lab.... I don't even remember all of them they claim.... IGA, ESL, GGI, whatever.

 

3) What is the return policy? Is there a restocking fee? Are you responsible for shipping it back yourself? Sometimes these sellers make it very hard or cost-prohibitive to return merchandise. It's all part of their numbers game. If they have language in their auction making it difficult to return EVEN IF the merchandise is not as advertised, then you know to stay away from that seller.

 

Just a story for you ---- I've bought on ebay as well. One was supposed to be a 10+ct santa maria natural deep blue aquamarine. I was very upset when I got it. I paid $600 for it and was really excited about my purchase. Something like that should be worth in the $2000-5000 range. It was nothing more then an unheated light blue topaz worth $5. That seller had a HUGE feedback, and not 1 negative. When I wrote him about it he said his whole parcel was topaz, he was sold fraudulent goods and found out later. When I asked why he didn't contact me when he found out he had no answer. So even the "best" sellers according to ebay's feedback can be crooks. And if I was not a jeweler but just an ordinary person off the street I would have never known. I ended up leaving him a negative feedback and he retaliated against me for doing so, and now I have a negative as well. But I refuse to withdraw the feedback, I'm not going to let him skate by and defraud other people. If that means I get stuck with a -1 so be it. I had 2 other incidents as well with other misgraded merchandise.

 

So it really is buyer beware out there, and while I did get some great deals on some gems in ebay, for the most part if I was not a jeweler I would have been screwed.

Edited by Adylon

Yosef Adde

Adylon.com - Diamonds & Bridal Jewelry (Burbank, CA)

http://www.adylon.com

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Hi Everyone,

Yosef, I've been over your number one concern ( feedback, and how it reads) thoroughly above..

 

Your number two and three concerns are in NO way specific to eBay- so why single out eBay?

 

Discussing grading, you and I have "agreed to disagree" about the proper representation of diamonds, grading, and gem labs.

 

We actually carry and provide ACTUAL photos of all our diamonds, rather than simply linking to someone's list- that has no actual photos either.

 

What this means is that our presence on eBay is very different from someone dumping goods.

We have some realy fine diamonds with GIA reports- both colorless, and Fancy Colored, all with actual photos, and my own first hand observations on the diamond. Some of these are quite large.......AND we've been doing this extensively for 7 years plus.

If you want to see a really nice LARGE WHITE diamond for a low price, please look at this one, a 3.30 for $16k.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-30-Beautifully-Imper...oQQcmdZViewItem

We do things our own way- and have dedicated huge resources to putting together what I consider to be, the best diamond store on eBay- which is why I find blanket statements about eBay to be offensive.

But if you think you're going to get a BIG, WHITE, CLEAN diamond really cheap on ebay you can basically forget it.

 

In what store, or on what site is that statement NOT true?

Edited by diamondsbylauren

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With all due respect to DBL and others…I’m not sure how you could condemn someone or their business without ever purchasing from them. They offer a 14 day no questions ask return policy and NO restocking fee.

 

 

DBL.. you claim to sell ‘Millions a year’ on ebay. You have 27 positive feedback this year..the only 2 in the last month were for $700 and $1500. That means the other 25 transaction would have had to average 40K each to achieve you ‘millions’.. I think you better check your math

 

 

You have 422 + feedback @ 100%..he has 5735+ @ 100%

 

 

You ring is .2 smaller..no ring..not set.. 2 ratings lower in clarity.. the same color but $13,000 (over 400%) more than I paid. And yours come with NO Cert or rating. At least I get something from him. Somehow I don’t think that ‘You Tube’ video is worth 13k

 

 

Judging by feedback alone he has had 20X the repeat customers you have had. He’s been selling on ebay for 5 year.. you 8 years (53 VS 1033)

 

 

I wish you well in your business..they way you do math.. you’ll need it

 

 

Kinda funny how defensive you get when you get slammed.

 

 

 

 

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Hi Everyone,

Yosef, I've been over your number one concern ( feedback, and how it reads) thoroughly above..

 

Your number two and three concerns are in NO way specific to eBay- so why single out eBay?

 

No reason to get defensive. I only brought up those 2 points because too many diamonds/diamond rings on ebay come with some unknown lab's "cert", and a lot of ebay transactions have very small windows of time to make a return or restocking fees, or even final sale. I'm not singling you out, I'm sure you run a tight ship.

 

 

Discussing grading, you and I have "agreed to disagree" about the proper representation of diamonds, grading, and gem labs.

 

We actually carry and provide ACTUAL photos of all our diamonds, rather than simply linking to someone's list- that has no actual photos either.

Other then EGL-USA, I think we agree on a lot more then you think. Yes photos are very helpful. Just because I use a list doesn't mean I don't provide a picture or let the consumer see in person when asked.

 

What this means is that our presence on eBay is very different from someone dumping goods.

Just for the record I'm not dumping diamond goods on ebay, I'm getting rid of a lot of gold chains I didn't want to melt. I figured if I had to melt it down, better to unload it on ebay at cost and build up some positive feedback if I decide to get rid of some stuff on there later. So far I've been getting over melt so I'm happy. I still have a lot more to get rid of actually.

 

We do things our own way- and have dedicated huge resources to putting together what I consider to be, the best diamond store on eBay- which is why I find blanket statements about eBay to be offensive.

Hey I congratulate you, I didn't mean to offend, I'm sorry. But this buyer doesn't seem to be interested in spending $16k on a diamond which just goes to prove my point. You'll never find a big white clean diamond on ebay for like 80% off of what a legit online dealer will sell it for. If you do then something's wrong. Like in this case, it's clarity enhanced, the grading is very suspect and the cut is unknown. Also they used a stock photo like you mentioned, the real thing is most likely nothing similar. There's a reason he bought it for $3250 --- he has no desire to pay $10k+++ I'm sure, let alone $16k. And I don't think he wanted to spend the same amount on a quality 3/4ct diamond.


Yosef Adde

Adylon.com - Diamonds & Bridal Jewelry (Burbank, CA)

http://www.adylon.com

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Thanks for the reply…there’s a couple reasons why I ask this question. I purchased the Diamond on Ebay (yeah.. I know.. let me have it) item number 260186413670. I feel I got an extremely good deal (I paid $3250 set in 14k gold). It was from a seller (AJDiamonds) with 5700+ feedback, a 100% rating and has been selling since 2003.. After the auction (and it was a true auction..no reserve) he emailed me saying although he personally paid almost 3x for the stone.. he will honor the sale. I did do some research before hand as I know nothing about Diamond. Most peeps say color is more important than clarity. After ready a few actual post I’m starting to learn that the cut makes the stone.

 

 

The stone is ‘independently appraised’ by an unknown company for almost 38k. The weight was a 3.5…color F and Clarity Si3 and was 9.59x.9.57x5.91

 

 

Before I bid\bought I spent a couple hours reading about half of his feedback. He had a lot of (and I mean a lot) ‘Diamond didn’t appraise nearly as high but still got a great deal.’ It seems the general consensus from feedback left is that other buyer were finding their rocks appraising about 60% of what the sellers said.

 

 

The seller also offers full refund up to 14 days after the auction. Judging by feedback left by others..he honors this as it has been referenced a bunch of times

 

 

Even if it only appraises at 50% I think I’m still a head of the game 19k VS the $3250 I paid).

 

 

So..If the stone is cut poorly…is it feasible to have it re-cut at a decent price even if I loose a half carrot or so? I’m thinking if I loose .5 carrot and have to pay a grand or so to have it recut..I would still be WAY a head of the game

 

 

Of course.. I could be totally wrong as I said before..I know NOTHING about this stuff

 

 

Thanks again!

 

 

Hi monsterbash,

 

I'm not in the diamond industry, but the advice given on this board by the regular posters is generally sound.

 

Personally, I am of the opinion that there are too many unknowns in this deal to make a qualified assessment.

 

For discussion's sake, let's forget where you bought this stone, be it on eBay, from a pawn shop, retail store, etc....

 

First, it's been appraised by an "unknown company". This means that one cannot be sure if the dimensions are indeed accurate.

 

Second, nobody has seen the stone, so one cannot be certain if what you propose can or cannot be done.

 

Thirdly, too many assumptions in the scenario you have give. One, that the stone is indeed worth $38K. Two, that it can be recut. Three, that you loose 1/2 ct in the recutting process (assuming it can be done). Four, the recut stone is going to be worth $19K. Five, the cost of recutting is $1K.

 

The only way you're going to find out is when you receive the stone and get it assessed by a cutter you trust. This is important, as there is no way you're going to be able to return the stone after you've made alterations to it, even if it's within the return period of 14 days.

 

All the best in this deal, and I hope things work out for you.

 

Do keep us posted on your findings.

 

Regards.

 

 

Bernard

 

 

P.S. : I only have 2 questions for this deal. If this stone has the potential to be worth much more if it were better cut, why did the original cutter not do this to secure a higher sale price when the stone was FIRST cut?

 

Also, if the possibility exists to recut this stone for a such high spread of $19K vs. the cost price of $3250, why did the seller not do this and keep the profit for him/herself?

Edited by Bernard Y

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Here's some more information (I went to ebay and checked the item #) - This was not mentioned before in the post:

 

"THIS CERTIFIED NATURAL DIAMOND IS A ROUND CUT THAT WEIGHS 3.50 CT AND WAS INDEPENDENTLY CERTIFIED AS F COLOR AND SI3/I1 CLARITY ENHANCED. DIAMOND IS SET IN 14K WHITE GOLD."

 

1. How does clarity enhancing affect the pricing of diamonds

 

2. What happens to the clarity enhancing (if any) when the diamond is re-cut?

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Here's some more information (I went to ebay and checked the item #) - This was not mentioned before in the post:

 

"THIS CERTIFIED NATURAL DIAMOND IS A ROUND CUT THAT WEIGHS 3.50 CT AND WAS INDEPENDENTLY CERTIFIED AS F COLOR AND SI3/I1 CLARITY ENHANCED. DIAMOND IS SET IN 14K WHITE GOLD."

 

1. How does clarity enhancing affect the pricing of diamonds

 

2. What happens to the clarity enhancing (if any) when the diamond is re-cut?

 

How does clarity enhancing affect pricing? The real question is what was it worth before it was "enhanced" ? If it's a "SI3/I1" now, what was it before? I2? I3? I-so-bad-it-would-never-get-a-grade-and-looks-like-a-lump-of-coal?

 

So basically that stone is worth what it previously what it was worth + a little "enhancing" to make it better whatever you think that's worth. What do you think a 3ct I3 diamond is worth? Add maybe $500 for the "enhancing".

 

If someone came to me and asked me if I wanted to buy that diamond (even though I really wouldn't want it), if it was not clarity enhanced, and a nice I1 stone but poorly cut, I'd maybe offer the guy $5,000 for it. But honestly I wouldn't pay more then $1000 for it as a CE-stone. Not to be rude to the original poster but the fact of the matter is that diamond was not really gem-grade before it was enhanced, and probably doesn't look much better now. Of course this is all just speculative since no one has seen the diamond, and no one knows if the grading is accurate.

 

 

To be honest I really don't know how it would hold up if it was re-cut/polished given it's a CE-stone. I guess it depends on how it was enhanced, and how bad the flaws are. I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for cutting an I3 clarity stone for fear it would fall apart.

Edited by Adylon

Yosef Adde

Adylon.com - Diamonds & Bridal Jewelry (Burbank, CA)

http://www.adylon.com

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Monster- I wish you the best.

it's your 3 grand- and the potential problems I have pointed out were to help you and others avoid getting ripped off.

 

When a seller claims to have prices exponentially lower than established dealers, that's a sign something is wrong.

If a guy is standing on the corner hawking a Rolex for $50 we know it's either fake or stolen- some thing's wrong somewhere.

 

 

As far as what we, and others sell on eBay:

It's impossible to ascertain how much someone sells based on feedback.

We've closed about $36,000 in sales over the past 30 days according to eBay- not every sale results in feedback.

Even beyond those, there are other cases where there's no eBay feedback from a sale.

There have been hundreds of returning clients who see no need to complete subsequent purchases on an eBay auction. Once people know us, they simply contact us directly in most cases..

Or someone shopping for something we show a lot of, but not exactly what they are looking for.

We locate and provide it directly to them. Again- no chance to leave feedback.

We never encourage folks to come to us outside eBay, but it just happens sometimes.

 

There's also a lot of reasons you can't tell a lot about the seller in in question's sales based on feedback.

For one thing, keeping bidder's identities hidden. That renders any statistics- such as returning customers- invalid.

What do you think about the hidden identities, and the withdrawn feedbacks Monster?

 

 

 

 

 

Then there's this "certified" business. There's not even a mention of a gem lab- of course there's no GIA reports.

Yes , I did grade our 3.30 diamond, and clearly I state that there's no GIA.

When a seller claims "certified" stones with no mention of ANY gem lab, they are pulling something. OF the 6 colorless cushions we currently offer, the other 5 do have GIA reports.

 

These are all red flags that call a seller's business practices into question.

Why would you believe you'd have no problem getting a refund?

 

Anyway- I wish you the best.

A $3000 3 carat diamond is bound to be...well- interesting.

I hope you enjoy it.

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Hi Monsterbash,

 

some final thoughts on your posts...

 

I managed to find a web site with the heading "AJDiamonds" at http://www.ajdiamonds.com/index.php?UID=20...00165.21.155.88

 

I think it's the correct site, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

Every market, be it restaurants, automobiles, cellphones, and yes, jewelery; can be broadly classified into "High end", "Low end", and "Mid range"

 

Browsing through the site, I somehow get the feeling that they are catering to the "mid-range" diamond market. Nothing wrong with that. Different strokes for different folks, right? Consumers on a tight budget would not even bother looking at the High-end shops as they're sure to be out of their range. By the same token, people with money to burn would hardly be interested in looking at Low-end products.

 

Different merchants cater to different segments of the market. All run viable businesses. That's the way it goes, right?

 

Now let's see if we're still on the same page. If I understand you correctly, your aim is to purchase a "Mid-range" stone from a merchant offering mid-range products. Proceed to buff it up by attempting to re-cut it, and hopefully elevate the said stone to "High-end" status. Thus, if all goes according to plan, make a profit from this exercise. Would that be correct?

 

Well, I'm no expert in this diamond business. However, I've been around the block long enough to say that there's a reason Mid-range stones were assigned "Mid-range" status to begin with. If they had the potential to be "High-end" stones, don't you think the cutters (these people are professionals in this field, unlike you and I) would have spotted them during the initial cutting process, and would have sold them as such? Why relegate perfectly good stones to the "Mid" and "Low" end ranges if there were no compelling reasons in the first place?

 

Well, if this is indeed your plan, I wish you all manner of success. Though I must remain skeptical on the possibility that the "pros" missed out on a beauty of a stone that lay-people like us can pick up and profit from.

 

Regards.

 

 

 

Bernard

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Here's some more information (I went to ebay and checked the item #) - This was not mentioned before in the post:

 

"THIS CERTIFIED NATURAL DIAMOND IS A ROUND CUT THAT WEIGHS 3.50 CT AND WAS INDEPENDENTLY CERTIFIED AS F COLOR AND SI3/I1 CLARITY ENHANCED. DIAMOND IS SET IN 14K WHITE GOLD."

 

1. How does clarity enhancing affect the pricing of diamonds

 

2. What happens to the clarity enhancing (if any) when the diamond is re-cut?

‘Clarity Enhanced’ means that surface reaching fractures have been filled with a glasslike material the makes them harder to see. The process of recutting will destroy this but you can always have it redone by the manufacturer (for a fee of course) when the recut is finished. The risks of damage in the cutting process go up significantly with low grade stones. I know of no cutters who will warranty against this.

 

CE diamonds are a different product from untreated natural stones. It’s necessary to compare an I-1/CE with comparable I-1/CE’s in a particular marketplace in order get a valid feel for value. There simply is not a conversion chart from untreated stones. It would be like selling a car, including a photograph of a Mercedes and pointing out in the fine print that it’s actually a bicycle that can be used for some of the same purposes as a car. That’s fine if what you want is a bicycle, but observing it’s cheaper than a ‘regular’ Mercedes is a wasted effort. Compare it to other bicycles if you want to know if you got a deal.

 

Ebay is a big marketplace for CE goods and this dealer seems to sell quite a lot of them. Since you’ve established that the dealer’s word is reliable to you, the process is fairly easy. Compare it to other items that they have sold. One of the reasons for the ‘private auction’ business is that it makes it pretty much impossible to match the item purchased to the feedback that relates to it but you can look up their recent completed auctions using the advanced tab on the search function. You can’t tell which ones the customer was happy with and you have no way of knowing which customers were boneheads or even which customers actually paid their bills but you can see how the seller described things, what their appraiser had to say about them and how much they theoretically got for them.

 

You’re guess is as good as mine about how clarity enhancement affects prices on the planet that this appraiser is describing in her reports. Ask her.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Bernard, it's certainly true that there are higher end jewelry sellers and more promotional ones.

But the act of selling lower priced items in no way excuses misrepresentation- and that's the issue with the seller in question. there's plenty of sellers of low end diamonds that do it honestly.

 

I agree with Neil about CE diamonds- recutting will cause the plastic in the diamond to melt, and run out of the diamond. additionally, heavily imperfect stones are far more likely to have problems during cutting.

 

In terms of what this seller sells- and to whom- the hidden identities renders any info completely useless. Even if you serched thru the history, there's simply no way to verify.

MANY of the folks that have purchased from us on eBay have contated other buyers we've sold to prior to purchasing. This info can only be garnered from our feedback.

 

Neil- putting aside any particualr seller: what is your opinion of the practice of advertising "Ceritifed" diamonds when no gem lab has ever even seen the diamond?

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‘Certified’ and ‘appraised’ are horribly misused and abused words. Lots of sellers don’t know they’re misusing them but even more are doing it deliberately. They know full well that their documents are a load of baloney and they provide them anyway. They provide them BECAUSE they're a load of baloney.

 

ANY dealer supplied documents, including reports from well regarded labs should be looked at with skepticism. How much skepticism depends on your confidence level in the dealer. If a document provided contains information that you know to be false, like an obviously unreasonable value or grading conclusion or a 'sample' photograph that isn't clearly identified as such, it not only calls into question the merits of the other statements on that report, it calls into question the credibility of all other statements made by the dealer. It raises an issue of why the dealer chose to present you with that particular report (or photograph, scientific test, appraisal or whatever). A bogus 'certificate' isn't just useless, it's a mark against. If it’s a simple typographical error or some such thing I would cut them a bit of slack but if it’s an attempt to get you to make a shopping decision by encouraging you to rely on something that they know to be false I call that a lie and I count that as a reason to choose a different dealer.

 

Lots of dealers lie. This happens both online and in the stores and it’s certainly not unique to eba or to diamonds. For this reason, I think the first step in buying a diamond is to choose the dealer, not to choose the stone. The second step is to choose a diamond and the 3rd step is to verify everything you’ve been told (or not told) using an expert chosen by the customer, not by the seller.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Hello All..

I thought i'd stop back and give you thr results.

 

I'm starting to see why all the 'Brick and Morters' are slamming the online places. They (the B&Ms) are SOOO overpriced it rediculous. I did receive the ring...a week later I sold it to a B&M for $6250 (It would have been a 3k profit except I had to pay sales tax fro the guy I bought it from). The B&M flat out told me he was selling back to his wholesaler. So basicly I sold a diamond to a jewler (at a 3k profit) who sold it to a wholesaler (no idea how much) who intern will sell it to another jewler..who intern will sell it retail and in this process..EVERYONE is making cash

 

No wonder I had you guys telling my 'whatever you do.. DON'T send the cash!'

 

I have sence purchased 2 more rings (ALOT smaller) and made a nice little profit on each one

 

Good luck to all in your business..my little side business is going quite nicely

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item number 260186413670. I feel I got an extremely good deal (I paid $3250 set in 14k gold). It was from a seller (AJDiamonds) with 5700+ feedback, a 100% rating and has been selling since 2003.. After the auction (and it was a true auction..no reserve)

 

I am not a diamond broker, only a consumer who is trying to help my teacher boyfriend find a good deal. I LOVE LOVE LOVE ebay! I have bought over 200 items from eBay and am thinking about buying a BMW next year from it (I have a ton of friends who have done it and love their cars). So, the first thing I did when we started looking for rings was to go to eBay!! I found a lot of dealers on eBay, and with the information I received here and other boards, I was able to ask intelligent questions. I have found 27 different dealers from eBay and other chat boards, and have personally e-mailed each to get information.

 

I WOULD buy from eBay if it came with a GIA or EGL certificate (for EGL I would assume it's 1 to 2 grades lower), but I am just smarter about it. Now, I'm just e-mailing the sellers seperately to see if they can find what I'm looking for.

 

For your diamond, a lot of things rang out to me, such as "Clarity Enhanced" and "Certified" (without nothing GIA or EGL). I just wouldn't go there, but its a personal thing.

 

Here's a link on GoG on Clarity Enhancement, it's food for thought:

 

http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/Cla...hancedDiamonds/

 

I say if you are happy with what you paid for and you are happy with your ring, who's to argue...would I suggest buying an a non GIA or EGL-USA certified diamond from eBay, no, but at the end of the day, I'm not the one wearing the ring on my finger.

 

Just my un-educated 2 cents.

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