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Best Choice From These 4


photo-swiss
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Hello everyone,

 

I am looking for an engagement diamond, typical round cut and have been to a few stores and checked some online shops. The mall type stores all seem to lack any credible certificates and the higher end store I am going to is trying to steer me towards a Hearts on Fire diamond. I have got them to bring a few in but I will also be calling them back to try to get them to bring in other diamonds with a AGS 0,0,0 cut rating or a GIA ex,ex,ex cut rating which many people here indicate may be a better cut or atleast the same as a HoF diamond, but I would be saving the marketing and probably not pay as much as the margins may be lower.

 

I have also considered buying something from bluenile and these are the diamonds that have caught my eye.

 

#1: Item 1 http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...amp;filter_id=0

 

#2: Item 2 http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...amp;filter_id=0

 

#3: Item 3 http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...amp;filter_id=0

 

#4: Item 4 http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...amp;filter_id=0

 

Here are my observations on them (which may be worthless)

 

#1 GIA notes minor details of polish are present? GCAL looks ok except some light loss in the face as indicated

 

#2 Brilliance and symmetry are good

 

#3 H&A characteristics not as good as #2

 

#4 No AGS report available online

 

They all have 61-61.6% depth and 55-57% table, all none/pointed culet, all thin to medium girdle and all no or none fluorescence, all excellent/ideal symmetry and polish with "signature ideal" cut (according to blue nile)

 

So my questions to you are:

 

1. Am I comparing these properly?

2. Is there anything else I should be looking at?

3. How can I compare something like this online to a HoF that I can see in real life?

4. Out of the 4, which do you think will be the best performer and the highest quality?

 

Thank you so much in advance for replies. I am continually reading about buying diamons but I still feel like there is a grey area. Looking at the diamonds in real life with a loup I cannot tell the difference between even a VS1 and a VVS1 or IF and can't tell the difference between a D and G colour. (D and H/K yes). So unfortunately all I can really fall back on is advice from this forum and what credible labs have to say. I have some hesitations about buying online because of the fear that I might buy an excellent diamond according to a report but it might not perform as well as an HoF (buying sight unseen).

 

Thanks!

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You're asking us to guess along with you based on incomplete and/or non-existent information.

 

Very tough if not impossible way to buy something that will cost thousands of dollars.

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Your hesitation is justified. A stone from the BN signature series may very well be as nice as one from HoF through your local jeweler or it may not. The key is to understand who you’re trusting and on what they base their information. It’s about the dealer.

 

The BN signature series has, presumably been inspected by GCAL who provided their stamp of approval. The other one you seem to be considering has the HoF stamp of approval. The question to decide what these stamps are worth. The BN sales people have nothing to add and, in fact, they have no way to look at the stone and they have no additional information beyond what’s printed on the website. GCAL said it’s nice and that’s good enough for them. Only you know if the other dealer you’re considering brings something valuable to the table. Some do, some don't. So you’re making two comparisons. GCAL vs. HoF and BN vs. whoever it is that’s selling you the other stone.

 

I think you’re approaching this backwards. I would start by choosing the dealer rather than by choosing the stone. Buying ‘online’ isn’t really as radical as you might think. There is no Internet that you can buy from, these are just individual dealers that are each trying to convince you that they deserve your business, just like the stores on the street. The internet is just a place they advertise and a medium they use to communicate with you. Assess them on their own merits. How did you pick BN and this other store you’re considering? A bit of effort here can save a huge amount of grief later on. There is no right answer to how to do this but there are an enormous number of choices out there and ending up with the right one makes your other question easy. You listen to and follow their advice. If, on the other hand, you end up with a jeweler that you feel is trying to stick it to you then you are almost certainly heading for trouble. Trust your gut and go with someone who is telling you the straight and full story. Yes, it’s a leap of faith but you can do it in an educated and protected manner. When you find one you like, and when you find a stone that looks promising, have it appraised by an independent 3rd party and, if there's a problem return it. Trust but verify. Do this no matter where you buy, online or off.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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Your hesitation is justified. A stone from the BN signature series may very well be as nice as one from HoF through your local jeweler or it may not. The key is to understand who you’re trusting and on what they base their information. It’s about the dealer.

 

The BN signature series has, presumably been inspected by GCAL who provided their stamp of approval. The other one you seem to be considering has the HoF stamp of approval. The question to decide what that these stamps are worth. The BN sales people have nothing to add and, in fact, they have no way to look at the stone and they have no additional information beyond what’s printed on the website. GCAL said it’s nice and that’s good enough for them. Only you know if the other dealer you’re considering brings something valuable to the table. So you’re making two comparisons. GCAL vs. HoF and BN vs. whoever it is that’s selling you the other stone.

 

I think you’re approaching this backwards. I would start by choosing the dealer rather than by choosing the stone. Buying ‘online’ isn’t really as radical as you might think. There is no Internet that you can buy from, these are just individual dealers that are each trying to convince you that they deserve your business, just like the stores on the street. The internet is just a place they advertise and a medium they use to communicate with you. Assess them on their own merits. How did you pick BN and this other store you’re considering? A bit of effort here can save a huge amount of grief later on. There is no right answer to how to do this but there are an enormous number of choices out there and ending up with the right one makes your other question easy. You listen to and follow their advice. If, on the other hand, you end up with a jeweler that you feel is trying to stick it to you then you are almost certainly heading for trouble. Trust your gut and go with someone who is telling you the straight and full story. Yes, it’s a leap of faith but you can do it in an educated and protected manner. When you find one you like, and when you find a stone that looks promising, have it appraised by an independent 3rd party and, if there's a problem return it. Trust but verify. Do this no matter where you buy, online or off.

 

Neil

 

Thanks for your comments!

 

Yeah I guess what I am kind of weighing in my mind is:

 

Hof + Local Retailer (well known in my town) = Nice stone (Looks good to me but also has paperwork with it from AGS) but I would have to get a smaller size or economize on the setting possibly to get (I would probably be paying a lot for the name and a good comission to the retailer)

 

vs

 

BN + what appears to be some great stones = Lower price (probably a lot lower margins so I could get a lot bigger stone and probably a bit better clarity and colour at the same time)

 

BUT the downsides to all this are:

 

1. I can't grade diamonds by myself but I would like to know I am getting the best stone for my budget. Since I don't really know what I am looking for, does going in and seeing the diamond provide any more useful information than all the reports I can see online?

 

2. It appears to me that the HoF cut is quite good but I guess the downside to a branded diamond maybe that I am getting not as much value for the money because of marketing and tighter market.

 

3. I am not sure exactly how to pick the best stone on a website (like how to know how well it will perform in the light) aside from the colour and clarity, I don't know the finer points or what I should be looking at. If i go to a site like BN, put in my budget range, min and max colours and cut for example, there may be 15-20 results. Which is the best way to narrow it down from there?

 

Here is how I started my search: I first came to this website and read some posts & FAQ about the basics of buying diamonds and learned about the different labs and how they graded their 4c's and read some posts about pricing so I would roughly know what sizes and qualities I wanted before I went into a local shop. I went into a shop and they introduced me to a HoF diamond and compared it to a couple other and it looked to me (of course there is the typical speil that goes with it too) that the HoF had a great cut and polish and seemed to perform a bit better than the non-HOF they had. So After I was there I came back to this forum and a few other sites and then started to read about the HoF brand and how some people thought you could get the same or better cut for a better price because you wouldn't be paying for the name and marketing. Looking back I should have looked at the report for the non HoF diamond to look at how they graded the cut and polish. So I guess It brings me to my current situation. I guess If I could guarantee or be pretty sure that I could select a diamond that will look just as good as the HoF I saw in the store, then I would probably buy online from BN or something to get the best deal I can get.

 

I don't want to say I don't trust the store, but everyone has money to make and just like where I work, we try to make as much as we can so I understand why they may steer someone to HoF over something else (esp. with the fierce online competition). I will try to call them today and get them to bring in some AGS 0,0,0 cut with same size and clarity and colour to compare to the HoF.

 

Am I doing something wrong here?

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You're asking us to guess along with you based on incomplete and/or non-existent information.

 

Very tough if not impossible way to buy something that will cost thousands of dollars.

 

Hi Barry, Thanks for the reply.

 

I guess I should have worded it correctly. Say I search for diamonds on BN and i Get 10, all D colour, VVS2 and 0.67-0.70ct "Signature Ideal Cut" excellent or ideal polish and symmetry. How can I further narrow this list down, what is the next thing to look at? Girdle, Culet, Depth, Table, etc?

 

How would you pick 1 from the list given (doesn't have to be mine, but what method would you use)

 

Like If i went into the store I likely would not find 10 diamonds all with the same carat, colour and clarity and cut (or probably even close). If I did I would probably just look at them all and take the "gut" feeling on what looks the best to me. Online I can't really do that so I need to find a different way to narrow the list down, and more than likely if it's based on lab reports it will be more accurate as well.

 

This isn't easy for me ;)

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Try using a different dealer for your online competitive benchmark. Look for one that actually has what they're selling and can look at it. Then you ask them for their advice. If the advice they give you strikes you as BS, make sure you're right and then find another dealer. Repeat as needed. Look for th links in the signatures of the advisers on this thread. You can recognize the dealers by the 'verified jeweler' logo below their picture. If you find one that seems to be giving you good advice, thats a clue that they may be what you're looking for. Click through to their website using the link at the bottom of every post and poke around. At the very least there's a bit of education to be had and you just might find your perfect dealer who can lead you to your perfect diamond.

 

Neil

 

edited to fix grammar.

Edited by denverappraiser
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I think they are suppose to have the signature diamonds in stock. Wonder why they don't take a photo??

 

It is really best to have someone that can look at the diamonds for you though and run a light performance if possible because even ideal cut diamonds can vary in light performance quite a bit.

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I think they are suppose to have the signature diamonds in stock. Wonder why they don't take a photo??

 

‘In stock’ for them many not mean the same thing as it does for a more typical store. Each signature stone has their logo etched on the girdle and it’s mentioned on the GIA paperwork as having been there before it was graded so I think there’s a pretty good chance that they do actually own them and they certainly have control of them. You would think that they could arrange to take a decent photograph or two or even get the folks at GCAL to do it for them while they have it but it’s certain that their sales people, both on the phone and by email, don’t have access to the stones. They and the vault may not even be on the same continent, much less in the same building. I think it’s just that they don’t count it as very important and therefore not worth the expense.

 

Neil

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Work with a Vendor that either has the diamonds in house or will have them sent in to them for personal evaluation and work up.

 

Our experience is that Ideal cut diamonds do vary in their face up appearance with some looking better than others. This is not something that you can recognize just from reading the rudimentary information off the GIA or AGS report.

 

Not every GIA EX-EX or AGS Ideal is maxed out and there are quite a number of such stones that are just missing that visual oomph. An Ideal Cut diamond's face up appearance and its brilliance, dispersion, and sparkle is affected and determined by 1. facet angle, 2. facet size, and 3. facets alignment.

 

Photo-swiss, I agree that if you went into a store and looked at 10 diamonds, you would definitely be able to pick out those that appealed to you and you would see differences regardless of the fact that they were all the same

color/clarity with the same specs.

 

You're correct that shopping for a diamond over the Internet is much more difficult in that you don't have the diamonds physically in front of you to examine.

 

And in answer to your question as to what we do; on our Exceldiamonds website we provide measurements of light performance via Idealscope and Brilliancescope in addition to photos so that you can appreciate the face up performance of the diamond.

 

It's really fascinating that BlueNile does the volume of business that they do without providing their Customer Reps access to their in-house" Signature diamonds so that they can provide the necessary information that you and other Consumers are looking for.

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Obviously Blue Nile is doing some things right since they outsell their competitors by a considerable margin. To some extent this is simply a matter of clever advertising and market exposure but there are other things at play as well.

 

I’m reminded of one of my lessons from Business school. It was about K-mart, who at the time was extremely successful. All who have shopped there have observed several peculiar things about them. One is that they normally have more than a dozen or more checkout lanes, usually only 2 or 3 of them are open at any one time and there is ALWAYS is a line waiting for each cashier. This despite the fact that there are available employees standing around doing nothing who are, presumably, being paid for this ‘work’. They <i>could</i> open another lane and improve the experience for their shoppers but they choose not to. On the surface this seems like deliberately bad customer service and I think this is basically correct. K-mart was and is run by some fairly smart people so what gives?

 

The logic goes that it is necessary that people not only find what they want and get a reasonably good price on it, they must <i>feel</i> like they got a good price. It’s a matter of manipulating perception. People assume that 7-11 charges more than K-mart for any particular item because they are more convenient to do business with. Very few people will actually do a comparison of any kind and yet most will leave the K-mart confident that they shopped wisely. This perception is bolstered by the fact that it’s more work to shop there and the long line gives the impression that they are busier, therefore more popular, therefore ‘better’ than some unknown competitor. Saks Fifth Avenue may have the same thing at the same or even a lower price but it feels more expensive there and few K-mart shoppers will actually go and look.

 

Blue Nile is doing the same thing. They have the look and feel of a discount place where they must be giving a good deal. They advertise heavily so lots of people find them early on in the shopping process. Retail jewelers offer a lot of hand-holding and one-on-one type service and by deliberately putting a cap on this and then offering the stamp of approval by GCAL, who won’t discuss it with you either, they saying to their clients that this is a cut rate place to buy high quality things. They don’t want to encourage the type of pre-purchase comparison that’s so often discussed here. It’s a very effective formula. Is it deliberately bad customer service? Yes, I suppose it is, but this worked for K-mart back in the day, and it works for Home Depot, Kroger, and even most fast food restaurants now.

 

Neil

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Neil;

 

IMO. there is a very significant difference between the products being sold in K-Mart, et al; to the purchase of a diamond engagement ring.

 

In spite of all the attempts to commodotize diamonds, Diamonds are a uniquely different product that what you find in K-Mart, Kroger et al. The cost is significantly greater and there is abundant emotion, psychology, and considerable angst and anxiety experienced by the guys making the purchase as it is a singular moment in their lives that they want to get right and not screw it up. We see this everyday in our Showroom. The Guys are nervous and I don't blame them. It is a very big moment in their lives.

 

No doubt Blue Nile is currently the Big Cahuna leading the pack in sales of diamond engagement rings over the Internet. Much, if not all of this is due to the hundreds of millions in Venture Cap money well-connected Blue Nile CEO Mark Vadon was able to round up several years ago at the inception of Blue Nile and then coupled with an effective marketing campaign which you have noted above.

 

From our vantage point, the tide is definitely turning. The increasing trend in Diamond shopping over the past few years is that Consumers are becoming more educated by the Internet, are asking more questions, demanding more information about diamonds and settings, and are investing the time and effort in looking for quality/value for their hard-earned dollars. Forums such as this one, Diamond.info with the participation of Industry Professionals such as yourself dispensing no-shill and accurate advice to Consumer's questions is instrumental in motivating Consumers to get the best values for their money regardless of where they wind up purchasing: A Brick & Mortar Jewelry Store or an Internet diamond website.

 

The bottom line is if you buy a flop or lemon at K-Mart how much money are you out? $29.99, $59.99, $100.00?

But if you get messed over on the purchase of your diamond engagement ring, you're talking thousands of dollars!

 

 

I have no doubt that Blue Nile is aware of these trends and is hedging their bets. The Red Flag is their Insider Trading statistics. Over the past two years, the top-level Blue Nile Executives and Insiders have all consistently and continuously sold their shares with not even one listed purchase! Share sales have been consistent regardless of share price, ranging from a low of $35.00 to the recent high of $85-$95. The question is why? With sales increasing quarter over quarter why are not the Blue Nile Executives and insiders showing confidence in their company by purchasing their stock?

 

What is it that they know that the individual and corporate investors don't?

 

Grist for the churning mill.

Edited by barry
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It’s more applicable than you might think. In the 25 years since I took that class, Kmart has largely been supplanted by Walmart who has adopted many of the same strategies, including the one I’ve described above. In that same 25 years Walmart has gone from nothing to being the largest retail jewelry in the world, including some stunningly expensive pieces, especially through their Sam’s Club division. Personally, I wouldn’t buy an engagement ring from Walmart but a huge number of people choose to shop there, even at the high end. They do this using poorly paid salespeople that don’t even pretend to have anything useful to say, ‘certificates’ that are mostly nonsense and a sales environment that you would have to work at to make worse. These things are not accidents, everything that goes on inside a Walmart is the result of someone making a deliberate decision that it should be the way it is. Smart people can make dumb decisions, of course, but these are decisions nonetheless and their sales performance would suggest that they're getting a decent fraction of them right.

 

I too have been amazed at the exodus of insiders from Blue Nile, especially the founder and chairman and how their stock has continued to climb throughout the process. Overall, their stockholders have done pretty well in the last few years. They’re up more than double just this year alone (so far. A lot can happen in a month and a half and it's volatile as hell.)

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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I think Neil has this one analyzed perfectly!

 

The thing that many sellers miss is that the buyer looking only for bottom dollar doesn't really allow for a proper business model WITH a high level of service.

When I buy something more personal, and costly, I would prefer to pay more to get a better level of service.

In spite of the "big boys" there's a large enough segment of the market- and probably more at the higher price point levels ( $5K plus) that demands a high level of service.

 

Maybe the reason BN stock is strong, is that the actual process of buying diamonds on the internet offers some very real possibilities-

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I think the market expectation clearly is that Internet diamond sales is a good idea. I definitely agree. Curiously, there are two other pure Internet diamond players in the market as well. Novori (NOVO) and Abazias (ABZA). Both offer a shopping experience and products that are nearly identical to what you see at Blue Nile (NILE) for what appears to be tokenly better prices and neither one has performed anything like as well.

 

Neil

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Neil;

 

You say that "I too have been amazed at the exodus of insiders from Blue Nile, especially the founder and chairman".

 

Well, Mark Vadon was recently asked why he has been consistently selling large blocks of his stock over the past two years. He answered that he was "diversifying" his Portfolio.

 

"Say goodnight, Gracie".

Edited by barry
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I am not worried about the insider sells. This stock has had what many people consider unsustainable growth. The executives seem to think that the stock is overvalued, and are taking profits, and seems completely reasonable to me. If you have widgets that are worth two bucks each and people are beating the door down to buy your widgets for 3 bucks each. Do you hold on and hope for them to be worth 4 or do sell part of your widgets and buy whatchamacallits that you know are worth 3 dollars apiece and maybe not as overpriced.

 

I think part of why Blue Nile does so well is because they are such a big company. I believe that the customer assumes that they have less risk of being scammed. This is a big factor when doing business on an internet that it so well known for dirty tricks and schemes. Also, during my shopping I had the mostly incorrect assumption that a small company may be less organized than the larger companies. Therefore, I was worried that buying from a small company would lead to hassles during fulfillment and/or possible return.

 

To photo-swiss:

1. The nice thing about this forum is that you can get a feel for the people at some really great online jewelers. I feel that reading these jewelers’ posts have helped ease my concerns about shopping with a smaller company.

2. How did you decide that you would like such high end clarity? I (just a fellow buyer) personally could not tell the difference between VS2 diamonds and IF diamond without a loop. For the most part I could not see the inclusions with the loop. I understand the desire to get the best but VS2 may give you a chance to buy a bigger stone or save you money. Have you had your local jeweler show you a VVS1 versus a VS2 under a loop or microscope?

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I have also considered buying something from bluenile and these are the diamonds that have caught my eye.

 

#1: Item 1 http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...amp;filter_id=0

 

#2: Item 2 http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...filter_id=0

 

#3: Item 3 http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...filter_id=0

 

#4: Item 4 http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...filter_id=0

 

The four diamonds you have listed above are of high color and high clarity and fall within ideal/excellent search parameters for round diamonds on depth and table. You may want to consider the Holloway Cut Adviser to help you disect the light performance of round diamonds that you have not yet seen in person. Here is the link http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/holloway_cut_adviser.htm.

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I think part of why Blue Nile does so well is because they are such a big company. I believe that the customer assumes that they have less risk of being scammed. This is a big factor when doing business on an internet that it so well known for dirty tricks and schemes. Also, during my shopping I had the mostly incorrect assumption that a small company may be less organized than the larger companies.

 

I agree with this so much that I had to re-quote it.

 

In fact...

 

I think part of why Blue Nile does so well is because they are such a big company. I believe that the customer assumes that they have less risk of being scammed. This is a big factor when doing business on an internet that it so well known for dirty tricks and schemes. Also, during my shopping I had the mostly incorrect assumption that a small company may be less organized than the larger companies.

 

Ahh.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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I am not worried about the insider sells. This stock has had what many people consider unsustainable growth. The executives seem to think that the stock is overvalued, and are taking profits, and seems completely reasonable to me. If you have widgets that are worth two bucks each and people are beating the door down to buy your widgets for 3 bucks each. Do you hold on and hope for them to be worth 4 or do sell part of your widgets and buy whatchamacallits that you know are worth 3 dollars apiece and maybe not as overpriced.

 

I think part of why Blue Nile does so well is because they are such a big company. I believe that the customer assumes that they have less risk of being scammed. This is a big factor when doing business on an internet that it so well known for dirty tricks and schemes. Also, during my shopping I had the mostly incorrect assumption that a small company may be less organized than the larger companies. Therefore, I was worried that buying from a small company would lead to hassles during fulfillment and/or possible return.

 

To photo-swiss:

1. The nice thing about this forum is that you can get a feel for the people at some really great online jewelers. I feel that reading these jewelers’ posts have helped ease my concerns about shopping with a smaller company.

2. How did you decide that you would like such high end clarity? I (just a fellow buyer) personally could not tell the difference between VS2 diamonds and IF diamond without a loop. For the most part I could not see the inclusions with the loop. I understand the desire to get the best but VS2 may give you a chance to buy a bigger stone or save you money. Have you had your local jeweler show you a VVS1 versus a VS2 under a loop or microscope?

 

Hi dplottner:

 

I went to a jeweller and I do beleive I could see some inclusions in a VS1 diamond with the loup. I couldn't tell the difference between VVS1 -> IF with the loup. I also found that atleast on BN, when looking at signature cut diamonds only, it was hard to find any stones wiht a clarity less than VVS2 for the colour ranges I was interested in D,E

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Hello Everyone,

 

Thanks for taking the time to add your comments/thoughts to the post.

 

I have done a little more research and I think I have found a diamond that well perform pretty well.

 

http://www.bluenile.ca/diamonds_details.as...amp;filter_id=0

 

I entered the cut dimensions from the GIA report into the Holloway cut advisor and it came back with a rating of 1.8, which appears to be good.

 

The stone is 0.70ct, "BN signature ideal cut", F, VVS2, depth 61.6, table 55, thin to medium faceted girdle, no/pointed culet, no fluorescence, GIA says cut polish and symmetry are all excellent, GCAL brilliance and symmetry look good.

 

Is there anything about this stone that I should be concerned about? I would just like to know what everyones opinions may be (as good as they can be from not seeing it in person).

 

Thanks in advance,

Mike

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Clicking on the link to the GIA dossier report I noticed a large comment about the bluenile inscription being done after being graded by GIA. Even though they have this pasted as if it is part of the report, I don`t think it will be on the original or GIA would have noted it at time of issue. It did however note that the H&A was inscribed on the girdle.

Edited by Bradley
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Clicking on the link to the GIA dossier report I noticed a large comment about the bluenile inscription being done after being graded by GIA. Even though they have this pasted as if it is part of the report, I don`t think it will be on the original or GIA would have noted it at time of issue. It did however note that the H&A was inscribed on the girdle.

 

Holy Cow! It looks like they’ve altered the lab report, or at least the image they're providing of it! They did the same thing on all 3 of the ones that come with GIA grading from the above set. Incredible. This technique would certainly be a handy solution for a dealer if the report doesn’t say what they want but I’m amazed that GIA and even the FTC will put up with even this seemingly minor modification. It makes me wonder if other 'corrections' have been done. I’m doubly amazed to see this sort of behavior is coming out of such a big company. I wonder if it matters that this is a Canadian advertisement?

 

Neil

 

Dossier report for 0.62 F/IF

Edited by denverappraiser
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Here is the GIA Report Check for the .62 F/IF stone from Blue Nile that was posted above.

 

There is no indication on this Dossier Report of the BN Logo being added after GIA grading.

 

GIA protects its copyright and patents Internationally so the fact that this is a Canadian advertisement makes no difference.

post-5339-1195743725_thumb.jpg

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...I’m amazed that GIA and even the FTC will put up with even this seemingly minor modification...

 

Neil, I agree completely with your angle but I don't know that this would be an FTC issue(?)

 

It is definitely an issue though. If it's actually being put on the report I would be very surprised if GIA is knowingly permitting it.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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