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Greatly Appreciate Expert Advice On The Following Stones...


FlatsJunkie
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Please advise on the following three stones I am now considering:

 

GIA Report #1

Cut-Cornered Rectangular Modified Brilliant

7.43 x 5.38 x 3.74mm

1.21 Carat

69.5% Depth

69% Table

Extremely Thin to Thick Girdle

None Culet

Excellent Polish

Very Good Symmetry

VVS2 Clarity

F Color

None Fluorescence

 

$7700.00

 

GIA Report #2

Cut-Cornered Rectangular Modified Brilliant

7.14 x 6.01 x 4.17mm

1.59 Carat

69.4% Depth

63% Table

Medium to Thick Girdle

E Color

VS1 Clarity

Very Good Polish

Very Good Symmetry

None Fluorescence

None Culet (if culet is the bottom point of diamond in latest GIA Reports)

 

$11,900

 

GIA Report #3

Cut-Cornered Rectangular Modified Brilliant

1.54 Carat

Cut Very Good

Color F

Clarity IF

Depth 71.4%

Table 72%

Symmetry Very Good

Polish Excellent

Girdle Medium to Medium

Culet None

Fluorescence Medium Blue

7.50 x 6.04 x 4.31mm

*This is the stone I am most interested in. Do the proportions look ideal? Also, I have read that the medium blue fluorescence is perfectly fine? I think a slightly blue fluor would be cool but don't know about the girl???

 

 

 

 

My budget is $12,500 for the stone and I want to of course make sure I get the best quality/size for the price. I have seen the 1.21 Carat stone and it was beautiful and actually physically larger (table?) than another 1.51 Carat that this same dealer had. The 1.59 Carat will be available to me this coming Friday.

 

Thanks for any advice on above pricing and quality.

 

Rob

Edited by FlatsJunkie
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Are you planning on spending that amount without even a picture of the diamond or idea of what it looks like?

If just going by numbers on a piece of paper, I would avoid the extremely thin girdle of the first one in case you have a problem with it being set and chipped or chipped when worn. Alot of girdle variance on that one. Tells me it probably isn't cut that well.

You can get a better cut grade for less in that size and color and clarity range of the 2nd one.

Edited by jan
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Are you planning on spending that amount without even a picture of the diamond or idea of what it looks like?

If just going by numbers on a piece of paper, I would avoid the extremely thin girdle of the first one in case you have a problem with it being set and chipped or chipped when worn. Alot of girdle variance on that one. Tells me it probably isn't cut that well.

 

 

Thanks for your reply, Jan.

I have seen the 1.21 Carat and from what I could tell it looked beautiful. The 1.59 Carat is being shipped to the broker for my review this coming Friday. I will not have access to the third diamond I just added. This is the one that I am most interested in. What is your opinion of this stone based on the report?

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Looks a litte overkill on the clarity. You will pay more for an IF when a VS1 will look the same really. The medium blue should bring down the price a little on the flouresence in an F color grade. A total depth and table won't really tell us how beautiful the stone is. We normally do a light performance analysis ourselves. But for instance you can get a really nice and well cut GIA carat and a half VS1 F color in the slightly under $10,000 range.

 

The girdle is better on the 3rd one than the 1st and 2nd one.

Edited by jan
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Looks a litte overkill on the clarity. You will pay more for an IF when a VS1 will look the same really. The medium blue should bring down the price a little on the flouresence in an F color grade. A total depth and table won't really tell us how beautiful the stone is. We normally do a light performance analysis ourselves. But for instance you can get a really nice and well cut GIA carat and a half VS1 F color in the slightly under $10,000 range.

 

The girdle is better on the 3rd one than the 1st and 2nd one.

 

 

Yeah, I understand I could get more bang for the buck by lowering on clarity but for the 20% difference in cost it's worth it to me for her to be able to say that it is "Internally Flawless." :P After all, we're both Asian and our families/friends will have the nerve to ask!!! ahahahaaa....

 

Seriously though, do you have or can you get a stone that would be a better buy than the one I detailed for under 10,000? I know dealers/brokers believe that it can be done but I need to buy this stone NOW, therefore, would like an actual stone that meets this "should be able to" criteria in hand.

 

There's a difference in should be able to find and actually have one to purchase. This isn't directed at you specifically I'm just saying in general. ;)

 

Rob

Miami, Florida

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Looks a litte overkill on the clarity. You will pay more for an IF when a VS1 will look the same really. The medium blue should bring down the price a little on the flouresence in an F color grade. A total depth and table won't really tell us how beautiful the stone is. We normally do a light performance analysis ourselves. But for instance you can get a really nice and well cut GIA carat and a half VS1 F color in the slightly under $10,000 range.

 

The girdle is better on the 3rd one than the 1st and 2nd one.

 

 

Yeah, I understand I could get more bang for the buck by lowering on clarity but for the 20% difference in cost it's worth it to me for her to be able to say that it is "Internally Flawless." :P After all, we're both Asian and our families/friends will have the nerve to ask!!! ahahahaaa....

 

Seriously though, do you have or can you get a stone that would be a better buy than the one I detailed for under 10,000? I know dealers/brokers believe that it can be done but I need to buy this stone NOW, therefore, would like an actual stone that meets this "should be able to" criteria in hand.

 

There's a difference in should be able to find and actually have one to purchase. This isn't directed at you specifically I'm just saying in general. ;)

 

Rob

Miami, Florida

 

 

Could have it in store in 1 day. :) If you want to e-mail me for more details.

info@dbof.com

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"Looks a litte overkill on the clarity"

 

 

 

From a rational/practical standpoint, this is very sound advice and even commendable coming from a salesperson.

 

However, G-D knows there is just as much emotion and psychology involved in making a purchase of this magnitude.

 

After all, you are not buying a Cuisinart or a loaf of bread.....

 

This is a "once in-a-lifetime" purchase (we hope ;) ) for many people and some folks simply "sleep better at night" when the grading report says D-IF on it.

 

We get this all of the time in our showroom in N.Y.C..

 

Invariably, a couple will come in with a pre-determined set of parameters for the diamonds size/color/clarity.

 

We will usually throw a monkey wrench into the equation, by showing them an additional diamond of identical size and cut quality, with slightly lower color/clarity.

 

In two identically cut diamonds, the slight discrepancy between color and clarity will often not be distinguishable to the naked eye, even in a side by side comparison.

 

Essentially, we prove to these people that they could save a bundle........."by switching to Geico"........ :P ....no seriously, by sacrificing a bit for color/clarity, with no visual/practical ramifications...

 

 

Guess what; many of these people will still opt for the "more expensive diamond" - with the better color/clarity.

 

 

Not because it looks "nicer" "whiter" "more eye-clean" or "more brilliant", but simply because it has the rarer specs. and that is important to them.

 

 

These decisions are entirely personal and subjective and we cannot dictate what should be more important to our customers with respect to the rational/practical vs. emotional/psychological considerations.

 

There is a definite marriage between the two variables and the customer himself/herself needs to figure out which one is more important.

 

 

Rob,

 

Best Of Luck!

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"Looks a litte overkill on the clarity"

 

 

 

From a rational/practical standpoint, this is very sound advice and even commendable coming from a salesperson.

 

However, G-D knows there is just as much emotion and psychology involved in making a purchase of this magnitude.

 

After all, you are not buying a Cuisinart or a loaf of bread.....

 

This is a "once in-a-lifetime" purchase (we hope :) ) for many people and some folks simply "sleep better at night" when the grading report says D-IF on it.

 

We get this all of the time in our showroom in N.Y.C..

 

Invariably, a couple will come in with a pre-determined set of parameters for the diamonds size/color/clarity.

 

We will usually throw a monkey wrench into the equation, by showing them an additional diamond of identical size and cut quality, with slightly lower color/clarity.

 

In two identically cut diamonds, the slight discrepancy between color and clarity will often not be distinguishable to the naked eye, even in a side by side comparison.

 

Essentially, we prove to these people that they could save a bundle........."by switching to Geico"........ :) ....no seriously, by sacrificing a bit for color/clarity, with no visual/practical ramifications...

 

 

Guess what; many of these people will still opt for the "more expensive diamond" - with the better color/clarity.

 

 

Not because it looks "nicer" "whiter" "more eye-clean" or "more brilliant", but simply because it has the rarer specs. and that is important to them.

 

 

These decisions are entirely personal and subjective and we cannot dictate what should be more important to our customers with respect to the rational/practical vs. emotional/psychological considerations.

 

There is a definite marriage between the two variables and the customer himself/herself needs to figure out which one is more important.

 

 

Rob,

 

Best Of Luck!

 

 

Stone I just purchased! $13,000

 

November 18, 2004

Cut-Cornered Rectangular Modified Brilliant

7.47 x 5.92 x 4.30mm

1.51 Carat

Depth 72.6%

Table 70%

Girdle Slightly Thick to Thick

Culet None

Polish Excellent

Symmetry Very Good

Clarity VS1

Color D

Fluorescence Faint

 

Has: Crystal, Feather, Natural and Extra Facet

 

I have seen a ton of stones during the last few weeks and after seeing this particular stone it was like a light turned on in my head and I suddenly realized what all you experts were saying about actual cut vs cert specs. This stone looks simply amazing and the thing that I really loved about it was that it was like looking through glass as it was so clear? Every facet was cleary identifiable and there was a pronounced X pattern at the very bottom of the stone which I really love as far as cut. I then looked at the other stones that I was originally contemplating and they all looked very plain. The facets for the other stones seemed to be just all over the place and they did not have this clear X pattern at the bottom. Everyone says that you can't tell the difference between D and E or F color but I could clearly see that this stone was pure white.

 

Should I be worried about the feather? I was able to look at this stone under a microscope and found the feather and natural inclusions very quickly although they are off on the corner of the stone.

 

After reading last night about fire/brilliance I can't say for certain that I know what to look for. Like I mentioned earlier this stone looks very clear like glass and does not reflect the yellow or other like colors that all of the other stones I looked at did. It was very white light with a slight sparkle of blue maybe. Is this normal or should I be seeing all the yellow/purple/other colors in the stone?

 

Is the X pattern a desirable pattern or is this something that is generally not used? I only found a couple of radiant cuts that exhibited this pattern of cut. Most others look more like a round stone with just facets cut symmetrically but no clear pattern.

 

Thanks for any advice you can give. I really appreciate it!

 

Rob

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"Looks a litte overkill on the clarity"

 

 

 

From a rational/practical standpoint, this is very sound advice and even commendable coming from a salesperson.

 

However, G-D knows there is just as much emotion and psychology involved in making a purchase of this magnitude.

 

After all, you are not buying a Cuisinart or a loaf of bread.....

 

This is a "once in-a-lifetime" purchase (we hope :) ) for many people and some folks simply "sleep better at night" when the grading report says D-IF on it.

 

We get this all of the time in our showroom in N.Y.C..

 

Invariably, a couple will come in with a pre-determined set of parameters for the diamonds size/color/clarity.

 

We will usually throw a monkey wrench into the equation, by showing them an additional diamond of identical size and cut quality, with slightly lower color/clarity.

 

In two identically cut diamonds, the slight discrepancy between color and clarity will often not be distinguishable to the naked eye, even in a side by side comparison.

 

Essentially, we prove to these people that they could save a bundle........."by switching to Geico"........ :) ....no seriously, by sacrificing a bit for color/clarity, with no visual/practical ramifications...

 

 

Guess what; many of these people will still opt for the "more expensive diamond" - with the better color/clarity.

 

 

Not because it looks "nicer" "whiter" "more eye-clean" or "more brilliant", but simply because it has the rarer specs. and that is important to them.

 

 

These decisions are entirely personal and subjective and we cannot dictate what should be more important to our customers with respect to the rational/practical vs. emotional/psychological considerations.

 

There is a definite marriage between the two variables and the customer himself/herself needs to figure out which one is more important.

 

 

Rob,

 

Best Of Luck!

 

 

Stone I just purchased! $13,000

 

November 18, 2004

Cut-Cornered Rectangular Modified Brilliant

7.47 x 5.92 x 4.30mm

1.51 Carat

Depth 72.6%

Table 70%

Girdle Slightly Thick to Thick

Culet None

Polish Excellent

Symmetry Very Good

Clarity VS1

Color D

Fluorescence Faint

 

Has: Crystal, Feather, Natural and Extra Facet

 

I have seen a ton of stones during the last few weeks and after seeing this particular stone it was like a light turned on in my head and I suddenly realized what all you experts were saying about actual cut vs cert specs. This stone looks simply amazing and the thing that I really loved about it was that it was like looking through glass as it was so clear? Every facet was cleary identifiable and there was a pronounced X pattern at the very bottom of the stone which I really love as far as cut. I then looked at the other stones that I was originally contemplating and they all looked very plain. The facets for the other stones seemed to be just all over the place and they did not have this clear X pattern at the bottom. Everyone says that you can't tell the difference between D and E or F color but I could clearly see that this stone was pure white.

 

Should I be worried about the feather? I was able to look at this stone under a microscope and found the feather and natural inclusions very quickly although they are off on the corner of the stone.

 

After reading last night about fire/brilliance I can't say for certain that I know what to look for. Like I mentioned earlier this stone looks very clear like glass and does not reflect the yellow or other like colors that all of the other stones I looked at did. It was very white light with a slight sparkle of blue maybe. Is this normal or should I be seeing all the yellow/purple/other colors in the stone?

 

Is the X pattern a desirable pattern or is this something that is generally not used? I only found a couple of radiant cuts that exhibited this pattern of cut. Most others look more like a round stone with just facets cut symmetrically but no clear pattern.

 

Thanks for any advice you can give. I really appreciate it!

 

Rob

 

As far as looking like glass, I'm not sure that would really be a good thing or the X pattern that you are speaking about. What you want is an all over brilliance in the stone with dispersing colors of blue and yellow, green and red. Also you shouldn't be able to see through the stone like glass. When the stone would get a little soap or grease on it later on, while wearing it would probably dull the overall appearance of the diamond.

 

On feathers being on the corner, it would depend on how large the feather is and position and how competant your diamond setter is. It's much easier to chip a diamond with a feather on the corner near where a prong would be to set the stone. Make sure they are insured if you decide to go this route with this stone and that they are responsible for the diamond while setting it. Meaning if they chip it they buy you a new diamond of the same quality.

I've attached a picture of a brilliant radiant example.

post-10-1193079448_thumb.jpg

Edited by jan
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Hi All!

 

I think Judah gave sound advice about clarity- if you love the diamond, and can pay the price, Internally Flawless is very valuable to many people- even though they can't see it naked eye, versus a VS1.

 

Jan- I disagree with your assessment of a VS1 posing a problem in setting

It's much easier to chip a diamond with a feather on the corner near where a prong would be to set the stone.

 

The likelihood of a VS1 sized feather ( as graded by GIA) posing a danger during setting is about nil.

 

I'm also dubious that a person trying to find someone ( other than the seller of the diamond them self) to be responsible to such a large degree in the setting of the diamond.

 

Rob- have you chosen a setting? And who will manufacture this setting?

If the person selling you the diamond is making the setting, you're in a far better position. They will have to satisfy you with regards to the diamond, the setting, and the workmanship.

 

In terms of the cut.

A pronounced "X" is not necessarily desirable- on the other hand it does not mean it's a "bad" diamond.

I think the first type of faceting you're talking about is what we call "Bucket if crushed ice"

Radiant_1.jpg

The one above actually has a bit if a "bow tie" effect- the opposite of the "X"

 

below is a total "Bucket of crushed lemon ice" look

687a.JPG

 

Did it have more of this type of look?

157r2185e.JPG

 

In general- any exaggerated dark area on a brilliant faceted diamond might be undesirable. Bow ties for example- are somewhat inevitable in certain shapes- yet it's only when they are very exaggerated that it becomes a problem.

 

 

Another point raised earlier regarding girdles: It' important to note that "Very Thin to Ex Thick" Girdle on a radiant might pose no problem at all.

Of course, a round diamond that had such a a large variation would indicate a real problem- because there's only one girdle on a round diamond. There's actually eight separate girdles on a radiant, so it's possible to have a large difference in width from one to another with no adverse effect whatsoever.

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Rob,

 

Being vigilant about feathers is warranted but with that clarity it should not be a problem. In general feathers that doesn’t break the surface or run for a long way pose no problem since a diamond will never be exposed to the extremes of pressure and friction it endured during the cutting process in everyday wear… While on the subject, questions about feathers often come hand-in-hand with questions about chipping. Something we’re in the habit of reminding people is that diamonds have natural cleavage planes: A knock the wrong way, especially at the girdle, may cause any diamond to chip/incur damage, feather or not. With the stk-tk girdle it's not as vulnerable, but having a good insurance policy is important for even the most flawless diamond.

 

It's hard to know what you were seeing...glassy look...light blue sparkle...no other colored flashes...without knowing the lighting environment. Directional spotlights like most jewelry stores feature (often small, directional halogens) will maximize fire. In naked diffused/fluorescent lighting there will be almost no fire but you can see the bright and dark areas that make up the contrast pattern in the stone. If you combine overhead diffused lighting with spotlights you get a marriage of brightness, fire and scintillation. There is a lot more to it, but to see fire you just need intense directional lighting. If you were in simple fluorescent lighting and saw no fire and the X pattern it could make sense - but under spotlights you should see many colored flashes.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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Good points John. No question that the grain of a diamond is far more important than a tiny feather which does not break the surface.

 

Jan's comment really bothered me because we hear so many "cautionary" remarks with no basis in reality.

Advising that a VS2 feather can be a danger to setting is exactly like telling someone that a K color is a "bad" diamond, just because it's a K.

Many times these false warnings are merely a sales technique.

 

So, yes, be vigilant to make sure you're buying a nice diamond... but also be vigilant about seeing thru "warnings" designed to knock a competitor's diamond without cause.

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Good points John. No question that the grain of a diamond is far more important than a tiny feather which does not break the surface.

 

Jan's comment really bothered me because we hear so many "cautionary" remarks with no basis in reality.

Advising that a VS2 feather can be a danger to setting is exactly like telling someone that a K color is a "bad" diamond, just because it's a K.

Many times these false warnings are merely a sales technique.

 

 

For those that have never even set a diamond in their life there is a big difference in what is reality. Feathers on the corners can pose a problem when setting in certain instances. I`ve set thousands of diamonds over the last 23 years and anytime there is a feather on the edge or corner of a diamond, especially princess cuts, it`s wise for the setter to take addtional caution.

 

 

 

Brad

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Hi All!

 

I think Judah gave sound advice about clarity- if you love the diamond, and can pay the price, Internally Flawless is very valuable to many people- even though they can't see it naked eye, versus a VS1.

 

Jan- I disagree with your assessment of a VS1 posing a problem in setting

It's much easier to chip a diamond with a feather on the corner near where a prong would be to set the stone.

 

The likelihood of a VS1 sized feather ( as graded by GIA) posing a danger during setting is about nil.

 

 

 

For those that have zero hands on experience and knowledge of how diamonds are set it shouldn`t be a problem at all. In other words no diamonds with VS clarity and a feather on the edge have ever been chipped ??? It`s good to know that all the setters can now close their eyes when setting diamonds. :lol:

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For those that have never even set a diamond in their life there is a big difference in what is reality. Feathers on the corners can pose a problem when setting in certain instances. I`ve set thousands of diamonds over the last 23 years and anytime there is a feather on the edge or corner of a diamond, especially princess cuts, it`s wise for the setter to take addtional caution.

 

Brad

 

Hey Bradley you're right; it's always a stone-by-stone call. A responsible gemologist will both verify what's on the report - and look beyond it. This diamond is cut-cornered, has a stk-tk girdle and is a GIA VS1. Based on years of experience with diamonds graded by the GIA and AGS, I'm inclined to think the odds are fractional that there would be any durability issue caused by its VS1 feather.

 

Of course, I can say "an asteroid won't hit my house" and I may be wrong tomorrow, so your point is well taken. :lol:

 

This is where a seller can create added-value for the client. Our company takes liability for any diamond we sell during the setting process when it's done in our shop , and we counsel clients to research liability if it's being set elsewhere. Setting accidents can occur regardless of clarity characteristics. A princess cut, with its tapered corners, requires more setting skill as a function of its profile, especially with thin girdles. I'll wager that poor setters failing to apply equal pressure in the seating of the stone will cause more chipped princess cuts in the long run than any VS-level feathers will.

 

We've inspected, set and sold thousands of diamonds with feathers over the years. Logically there are some we have rejected, but any good seller should protect the consumer in this manner. If you're familiar with the sawing, bruting and cross-working process you know a diamond undergoes enough pressure and heat to turn it white-hot during girdling and on the wheel. If it has been through all that, rates a good clarity grade from a strict lab and passes first-hand analysis it's going to be safe during normal wear and tear. That's our experience anyway.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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For those that have never even set a diamond in their life there is a big difference in what is reality. Feathers on the corners can pose a problem when setting in certain instances. I`ve set thousands of diamonds over the last 23 years and anytime there is a feather on the edge or corner of a diamond, especially princess cuts, it`s wise for the setter to take addtional caution.

 

Brad

 

Hey Bradley you're right; it's always a stone-by-stone call. A responsible gemologist will both verify what's on the report - and look beyond it. This diamond is cut-cornered, has a stk-tk girdle and is a GIA VS1. Based on years of experience with diamonds graded by the GIA and AGS, I'm inclined to think the odds are fractional that there would be any durability issue caused by its VS1 feather.

 

Of course, I can say "an asteroid won't hit my house" and I may be wrong tomorrow, so your point is well taken. :)

 

This is where a seller can create added-value for the client. Our company takes liability for any diamond we sell during the setting process when it's done in our shop , and we counsel clients to research liability if it's being set elsewhere. Setting accidents can occur regardless of clarity characteristics. A princess cut, with its tapered corners, requires more setting skill as a function of its profile, especially with thin girdles. I'll wager that poor setters failing to apply equal pressure in the seating of the stone will cause more chipped princess cuts in the long run than any VS-level feathers will.

 

We've inspected, set and sold thousands of diamonds with feathers over the years. Logically there are some we have rejected, but any good seller should protect the consumer in this manner. If you're familiar with the sawing, bruting and cross-working process you know a diamond undergoes enough pressure and heat to turn it white-hot during girdling and on the wheel. If it has been through all that, rates a good clarity grade from a strict lab and passes first-hand analysis it's going to be safe during normal wear and tear. That's our experience anyway.

 

 

Any diamond can chip, and surviving the cutting process has nothing to with that. I2 clarity diamonds may survive the cutting process but that doesn`t mean that certain inclusions won`t have durability issues. The postion of the inclusion being a feather on the corner can sometimes be a problem when setting or even during normal wear. To tell a consumer it has a "nil" chance of being a problem is not factual. Even diamonds without feathers can chip during setting or when being worn.

 

Of course it is obvious that David is more excited about picking on ladies, and would disagree and agrue that the world is flat for that matter. :lol:

Edited by Bradley
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Brad,there's no question I would have great cause to respond out of anger- after what you folks have said about me, and friends or clients of ours. I could easily discuss how trashing a seller, or his stones without cause is clearly relevant, in any discussion forum......

A competing seller advising someone not to buy a VS2 due to the risk of setting? Sounds like a bashing to me.

 

All due respect to your wife- she's posting as an authority, her words have meaning, yes? I will say it's very chivalrous of you to defend her.

 

 

But back to the topic at hand.

Clearly, any diamond can suffer damage when it's being set.

In terms of Radiant Cut diamonds, competent setters, and VS sized feathers- as graded by GIA, I agree with John. An asteroid could hit someone's house tomorrow, but what's the likelihood?

 

It's also true that I do not personally set diamonds- however I have supervised the setting of many thousands of diamonds- a minuscule percentage of which were damaged during setting..... I can't speak for your percentage Brad.....maybe we just have better setters?

 

I see no one here talking about princess cuts Brad.

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Brad,there's no question I would have great cause to respond out of anger- after what you folks have said about me, and friends or clients of ours. I could easily discuss how trashing a seller, or his stones without cause is clearly relevant, in any discussion forum......

A competing seller advising someone not to buy a VS2 due to the risk of setting? Sounds like a bashing to me.

 

All due respect to your wife- she's posting as an authority, her words have meaning, yes? I will say it's very chivalrous of you to defend her.

 

 

But back to the topic at hand.

Clearly, any diamond can suffer damage when it's being set.

In terms of Radiant Cut diamonds, competent setters, and VS sized feathers- as graded by GIA, I agree with John. An asteroid could hit someone's house tomorrow, but what's the likelihood?

 

It's also true that I do not personally set diamonds- however I have supervised the setting of many thousands of diamonds- a minuscule percentage of which were damaged during setting..... I can't speak for your percentage Brad.....maybe we just have better setters?

 

I see no one here talking about princess cuts Brad.

 

I`m really not interested in any of your drama, and I`m not out to hurt anyone or trash anyone. Apparently you are holding some grudge that has spilled over into your postings here.

 

My wife Jan that posts here is a Gemologist with 34 years experience in the jewelry business. Including wholesaler, retailer, artist. She has created many beautiful pieces of jewelry which includes the setting of gemstones and large diamonds. I`ve seen her personally set diamonds that were well over $50,000 cost. I think she is qualified to answer the question and has.

 

Well if you want to give people the impression that a diamond of VS clarity and above will never chip, put your money where your mouth is and make that your personal guarantee. That would save the insurance companies a lot of dollars.

 

The consumer that posted here had a valid concern about a feather and natural on the corner of a radiant diamond he is considering. No one was trying to bash another's stone , but give honest sound advice. There is more than a zero chance that it could be an issue. On a Radiant there are two exposed edges on each corner, and if the feather extends to this exact area it`s not exactly the best spot to have a feather. It may not be a problem, but I wouldn`t say zero just because a diamond is a clarity of VS.

 

 

 

Brad

Edited by Bradley
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Hi All!

 

I think Judah gave sound advice about clarity- if you love the diamond, and can pay the price, Internally Flawless is very valuable to many people- even though they can't see it naked eye, versus a VS1.

 

Jan- I disagree with your assessment of a VS1 posing a problem in setting

It's much easier to chip a diamond with a feather on the corner near where a prong would be to set the stone.

 

The likelihood of a VS1 sized feather ( as graded by GIA) posing a danger during setting is about nil.

 

I'm also dubious that a person trying to find someone ( other than the seller of the diamond them self) to be responsible to such a large degree in the setting of the diamond.

 

Rob- have you chosen a setting? And who will manufacture this setting?

If the person selling you the diamond is making the setting, you're in a far better position. They will have to satisfy you with regards to the diamond, the setting, and the workmanship.

 

In terms of the cut.

A pronounced "X" is not necessarily desirable- on the other hand it does not mean it's a "bad" diamond.

I think the first type of faceting you're talking about is what we call "Bucket if crushed ice"

Radiant_1.jpg

The one above actually has a bit if a "bow tie" effect- the opposite of the "X"

 

below is a total "Bucket of crushed lemon ice" look

687a.JPG

 

Did it have more of this type of look?

157r2185e.JPG

 

In general- any exaggerated dark area on a brilliant faceted diamond might be undesirable. Bow ties for example- are somewhat inevitable in certain shapes- yet it's only when they are very exaggerated that it becomes a problem.

 

 

Another point raised earlier regarding girdles: It' important to note that "Very Thin to Ex Thick" Girdle on a radiant might pose no problem at all.

Of course, a round diamond that had such a a large variation would indicate a real problem- because there's only one girdle on a round diamond. There's actually eight separate girdles on a radiant, so it's possible to have a large difference in width from one to another with no adverse effect whatsoever.

 

 

 

Hello,

 

I would like to say thank you to everyone who posted a reply. Believe it or not I actually feel much better about the inclusions my stone has! :lol:

 

The setting is being custom made by the manufacturer (forget the name) and will take between 6-8 weeks I was told. I say custom because I had the basket changed and the broker told me that he will match the sidestones as close as possible to D color. Once the setting is received he will then set the stone in house. I was guaranteed of all work and do feel confident that they will stand behind any possible issues.

 

On another note, the above images clearly identify what I was referring to as far as "cut." The third image does resemble what I had mentioned as a X pattern clearly visible in my stone. I am somewhat confused now by your post though. Are you saying that this X could be seen as undesirable by certain appraisers as it can be considered a dark area? My stone does reflect a ridiculous amount of light I just couldn't honestly answer what color I would label this light other than bright white. I just wasn't informed enough at the time of purchase to even look for colors as opposed to bright or dull. At one point the broker was trying to change the positioning of the stone under the microscope and the stone popped out and onto the carpeted floor. I looked over the counter and down at the stone where it lay and couldn't believe how bright it reflected! I think this is a good thing?

 

Well, now I have one last problem and that is price. After telling all of the other dealers/brokers that I was no longer interested in their stones (even ones I had left deposits on) I was of course asked about what I had purchased. I told them each the exact specs and they all referred to the Rap sheet. Well the rap sheet lists my stone at $14647.00. Each salesperson told me that I should be paying no more than $11,000 for my stone even with a absolutely perfect cut. Of course I took this with a grain of salt as they know my business has gone elsewhere but it still has me questioning whether or not I did in fact pay more than I could have? My price is about 12% below rap. Should I expect to pay between 20-30% less than rap for a comparable stone today?

 

I am not simply looking for reassurance that I made a sound purchase either. If your expert opinion and experience should suggest that I could have purchased such a stone at a better price than please let me know. I have not taken delivery of this stone yet.

 

Again, thanks for all the replies!

 

Rob

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Balderdash.

 

So even though they couldn’t produce a comparable stone for a better price they want to argue that you paid too much from the one guy who could. Nuts. It’s easy to quote good prices on things when you don’t have to produce the merchandise. This is sour grapes, pure and simple. They had their chance to beat the deal and they couldn’t produce. Put up or shut up jewelry boy. They had their chance and not everybody can beat every deal, but grumbling about it after the fact when they couldn’t do better tells you nothing new about the pricing, what it tells you is more about the character of the jewelers. Remember this when you consider which stores to visit for your NEXT purchase. In the meantime, congratulations on this one.

 

Neil

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I did see the exact same stone listed on the lists and I'm sure that many would have been able to sell it for less than the $13000. That is the problem with showing a diamond that is listed all over the internet. It's a pretty competitive market out there. In the $11000-$11500 would have been about right on the internet for that exact stone. Once the other jeweler buys it for stock however, it's not possible to get the same exact stone. Then you would have to look for a comparable stone which could differ in price, color and clarity depending on the supplier. So..... just factual info. I have to agree with Rob on that one. The diamond market is quite transparent on the internet.

Edited by jan
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Neil got the point exactly correct. Possession is 9/10's of the law ( actually 10/10's in this case)

 

Jan, the fact is that the lists that might make it seem transparent. But reality is different.

Once someone actually has the stone, it's price changes.

 

Sure, if one of the bare bones sellers got the call first, happenstance might be that someone could have bought it for less than $13k- It's very important to point out that the lower price would probably mean they'd get less service as well. It's also quite likely that the lower price might be a lot more than $11k.

I'll bet that your customers get far better service than someone buying from an internet list seller who owns no diamonds, and never sees what they are selling.

 

It's happened to us where I purchased a diamond from a broker only to discover it on a prominent diamond selling site.

Let them offer it for ten cents at that point, I have the diamond and can set the price.

Once you actually own them, you discover that not all I/Si1's are worth the same amount. Some are far easier to sell because they are simply more attractive. Others are far more likely to generate a refund request.

 

Bottom line- no list- internet or other- can accurately represent the value of diamonds.

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Neil got the point exactly correct. Possession is 9/10's of the law ( actually 10/10's in this case)

 

Jan, the fact is that the lists that might make it seem transparent. But reality is different.

Once someone actually has the stone, it's price changes.

 

Sure, if one of the bare bones sellers got the call first, happenstance might be that someone could have bought it for less than $13k- It's very important to point out that the lower price would probably mean they'd get less service as well. It's also quite likely that the lower price might be a lot more than $11k.

I'll bet that your customers get far better service than someone buying from an internet list seller who owns no diamonds, and never sees what they are selling.

 

It's happened to us where I purchased a diamond from a broker only to discover it on a prominent diamond selling site.

Let them offer it for ten cents at that point, I have the diamond and can set the price.

Once you actually own them, you discover that not all I/Si1's are worth the same amount. Some are far easier to sell because they are simply more attractive. Others are far more likely to generate a refund request.

 

Bottom line- no list- internet or other- can accurately represent the value of diamonds.

 

 

Okay, well now that the cat's outta the bag I can openly say that Jan is the one to bring to my attention that I overpaid for this stone. Jan was nice enough to let me know via email that she did see the exact same stone available to her and that my cost on this stone would have been 11,500 through her.

 

I did not take her email as an insult but rather good information as I was contemplating further discusssion with my broker anyways on the "great deal" I received after more reading on this site. That's why I mentioned the RAP sheet to you experts. If this is in fact the industry standard for loose stones pricing as I have been told by several dealers/brokers then maybe I did pay more than I could have? These same people told me that today's pricing structure is about 20-30% below RAP even with an ideal cut. :wacko:

 

I do agree with the service value add statement. The broker did seem to go above and beyond for me in my search and also final product customization. In fact, I will be flying to Boston very shortly and had planned to propose there while visiting our families. The setting will not be finished in time so the broker is setting the stone in the identical "original" setting and will ship it overnight for my proposal!! She can then wear it until her setting has been received at which time the stone will be relocated. I am very happy about this kind of service but to be honest would expect this level of service from any diamond broker! I'm sure that all of you would do the same for a customer, right?

 

In the end, yes I am happy with my selection but would still like to recoup 1500.00 if possible. I guess you experts can't please us all! :P

 

DiamondsbyLauren - could you please clarify for me whether or not this X pattern could be viewed as undesirable by certain jewelers as it would be labeled a dark area?

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