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Help With Fancy Colors


elklown
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Hi everyone,

 

Background: I have been poking around here for awhile, learning about the 4C's and trying to learn how to get the best bang for my buck. I had been planning for some time to purchase a colorless diamond for an engagement ring, but after shopping around for some time my would-be fiancée moved towards a fancy yellow diamond. After looking at a few in the Seybold building in Miami (supposed to be Miami's diamond district) I purchased what I hoped was a good choice, but since colored diamonds don't always follow the traditional rules I'm not sure what I picked up was the right choice. Price is not a huge concern for me, her satisfaction is, but I would like to know that I got the best diamond I could under the circumstances.

 

Specs: the diamond is a rectangular radiant cut, according to the GIA report polish and symmetry were both "good", there is no cut rating, and the clarity is "SI2". The color is rated as light fancy yellow, however neither I nor the jeweler could differentiate it from the fancy yellows in stock, so it would appear I lucked out and another GIA review might up-class it to fancy yellow. The diamond itself is a 2.0 carat and its color is very even and bright.

 

Question: my previous research had me convinced for a colorless to get at least a VS2, I have read that clarity is the first thing you should give on for fancy diamonds since the color will cover up some clarity issues, however I have a hard time swallowing the SI2 rating. I did not see any inclusions by eye, but I did see some of them clearly using a loupe. The inclusions are all little lines, very small, probably numbering 5 or 6. The purchase price seemed reasonable for such a large diamond at 11,500, but I have had a hard time determining whether this was actually a good price. Because the diamond appears on the high side of light fancy yellow I am not clear how much the price is affected, while it appears I could get a similar "light fancy" diamond with a clarity rating of at least VS2 for the same of less money or is an SI2 clarity not a significant factor here vs. the size and true color of the diamond.

 

I suppose what I am asking is whether this was a reasonable price to pay for such a diamond, and whether it’s high side light fancy designation or the SI2 clarity is the determining factor?

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Hi Elklown,

There are so many things to consider when evaluating a diamond.

Do you have the other stats from the GIA report- the measurements, depth and table?

Does the diamond exhibit flouresence?

The price is certainly not high- if you've seen it and it's attractive, it's probably all right.

How would you want to have it set?

Edited by diamondsbylauren
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In that price range you could have easily gotten a Fancy Yellow diamond even on the GIA lab report. Alot of people think that since they are buying in the Seybold building they are buying wholesale, but not always.

 

The problem with getting one that is fancy light yellow on paper is there are many many diamonds for alot less in the 2.00 ct. range in fancy light yellow. It might be hard to resell if ever need be.

So because of the GIA saying it was fancy light yellow, I wouldn't pay over $9000 for the stone in a SI2 grade. Maybe $9500 in the VS.

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Thank you both for your replies. Let me fill in the gaps a bit more, the measurements are 7.96x6.62x4.04mm with a table of 74% and depth of 61%. The purchase price included the ring which is a simple 18k white gold band with two .25 white diamond traps on the side of the yellow diamond but I have no idea how much that played into the price.

 

Jan I completely agree, it was only my first time there and just from stopping in at a few jewelers I saw sometimes huge fluctuations in pricing. Without mentioning names the store I vistited seemed to be a high traffic site, waited almost an hour to be really sit down and the prices seemed consistent or lower with my research at least for white diamonds, again this being a yellow diamond I have no idea where I fall.

 

Lauren, I love your site and found it too late to save me, you do have some beautiful yellow diamonds and I really appreciate the level of detail you give in describing each diamond.

 

Unfortuntely, I don't have the diamond in my possession I had it shipped out of state to family for both tax reasons and to hide it from my would-be bride so I can't really "see" how beautiful it is. I am willing to take it back to trade up if I think that I paid too much and could get a better quality diamond.

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Thanks for the kind words elklown!

 

 

In that price range you could have easily gotten a Fancy Yellow diamond even on the GIA lab report. A lot of people think that since they are buying in the Seybold building they are buying wholesale, but not always.
'

 

All due respect Jan, but I disagree.

A nice 2.00carat Fancy Yellow Radiant with no problems could easily be $14k today. The price of $11.5k for a 2,00 fancy Yellow would be evidence enough that there's something which is detrimental it's value. It might be strong blue , or be pretty deep, so it looks small, Or simply have a bad cut. But a fair price for 2 carat well cut VS Fancy Yellow with nice color is a $14-$21k - loose. elklown apparently paid less than $11500 for his 2 carat Fancy Light Yellow- because it included a ring- if I understand correctly. The point it, I would not knock his deal based on the price.

I don;t know the Seybold Bldg but if it''s like any other diamond "wholesale" environment, it's buyer beware- but there's surely some honest vales among the bad guys- maybe elklown found one.

 

 

The problem with getting one that is fancy light yellow on paper is there are many many diamonds for a lot less in the 2.00 ct. range in fancy light yellow. It might be hard to resell if ever need be.

So because of the GIA saying it was fancy light yellow, I wouldn't pay over $9000 for the stone in a SI2 grade. Maybe $9500 in the VS.

 

Here again, I strongly disagree.

If a diamond has a GIA report calling it Fancy Light Yellow there are certainly not a lot of diamonds for a lot less- unless they have issues.

In terms of resale value, again, I disagree.

If someone bought a ring for $11500 today from any retail seller- be it in the seybold building, on the web, or at a store- they can't resell it easily withouth sustaining a large loss. But if they paid $15000, or $50000 it would not be easier to immediately re-sell.

If someone bought years ago, they'd stand a good chance of recouping a decent percentage. That goes for Fancy Yellow, Fancy Light Yellow-or even Y-Z light Yellow. Anyone with a well cut Fancy Light Yellow 2 carat diamond with GIA report would be find willing buyers- maybe not at the price they;d like- but dealers will buy such stones

 

 

elklown- the price of $11500 set into a ring with half moons sounds pretty low. You did not mention fluorescence= which could explain the low price.

Our best quality 2.00 fancy light yellow diamonds go for more.

 

Here's an example

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-19-Yellow-GIA-VS1-Di...oQQcmdZViewItem

Edited by diamondsbylauren
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Judah, Fancy Vivid is very high saturation (yum).

 

"Fancy" is part of the descriptor for a diamonds with > saturation than Z (yellow/brown) and > saturation than faint, very light and light in other colors. Increasing saturation =

 

Faint

Very Light

Light

(the above correspond to the D-Z scale)

Fancy Light

Fancy

Fancy Intense

Fancy Vivid

 

There are also Fancy Deep and Fancy Dark, implying great saturation but darker tone.

 

The above is GIA's system. I am not sure if AGTA's is the same?

Edited by JohnQuixote
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Hi All!

 

I agree with John's list of descriptors- but there's a lot more to it.

For example, if a diamond is faint yellow, or brown, it stays on the letter scale.

A Y-Z for example- is clearly a "Fancy Color Diamond"- it's yellow, plain and simple.

But on a full GIA report, there's actually no mention of the color ( a "color origin" report would termthe color "Y-Z range Light Yellow")

 

If a diamond shows pink, GIA has a different manor of classifying- where they move away from the letter nomenclature, and switch over to the scale John mentioned.

Edited by diamondsbylauren
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Update:

 

I should have the ring back in my hands in a few days, so I hope then to get a good look at it in the sunlight before I ask (currently planning to pop the question on Nov. 7th so wish me luck), but that still gives me time to trade up if need be.

 

The price I paid does seem to be very reasonable given just the gia specs alone versus colorless diamonds with similar clarity, etc. It is much harder to compare against actual colored diamonds hence why I started this thread. Lauren the diamond on your site is gorgeous, despite its larger size and higher clarity the diamonds are similar though I think mine is slightly brighter yellow - I'll know soon and post a picture for everyone. The florescence came out "faint," please let me know if I left any other blanks in the GIA report. Jan the dealer I purchased from was Buchwald's if you have heard anything about them I would appreciate it.

 

To give a layman's opinion on something, I've seen a lot more yellow diamonds in recent years, as I said before my purchase came as rather a recent twist in my would be brides decision to have a "sunshine diamond" for the girl from the "sunshine state," what can I say Floridians are a special breed. After seeing several, my sister having a Fancy Vivid solitare, I would weigh in that I actually perfer the look of the fancy yellow the best, the darker shades don't seem real to me and before I got home and really looked at the GIA report I would't have thought mine a light fancy at all. I really appreciate everyone's comments and continuing help.

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Update:

 

I should have the ring back in my hands in a few days, so I hope then to get a good look at it in the sunlight before I ask (currently planning to pop the question on Nov. 7th so wish me luck), but that still gives me time to trade up if need be.

 

The price I paid does seem to be very reasonable given just the gia specs alone versus colorless diamonds with similar clarity, etc. It is much harder to compare against actual colored diamonds hence why I started this thread. Lauren the diamond on your site is gorgeous, despite its larger size and higher clarity the diamonds are similar though I think mine is slightly brighter yellow - I'll know soon and post a picture for everyone. The florescence came out "faint," please let me know if I left any other blanks in the GIA report. Jan the dealer I purchased from was Buchwald's if you have heard anything about them I would appreciate it.

 

To give a layman's opinion on something, I've seen a lot more yellow diamonds in recent years, as I said before my purchase came as rather a recent twist in my would be brides decision to have a "sunshine diamond" for the girl from the "sunshine state," what can I say Floridians are a special breed. After seeing several, my sister having a Fancy Vivid solitare, I would weigh in that I actually perfer the look of the fancy yellow the best, the darker shades don't seem real to me and before I got home and really looked at the GIA report I would't have thought mine a light fancy at all. I really appreciate everyone's comments and continuing help.

 

 

I looked on their site but I couldn't really see anything other than generic pictures, however it did say they've been around since 1932. So hopefully their goods in person look alot better than their website.

You do have to look at the diamonds in person, especially for color. One light yellow can be brighter and more saturated than another one and GIA doesn't always put subtle tone differences on their lab reports. We have a couple graded the same in the other day and one was definitely prettier than the other and more of a pure hue.

The price may be o.k. since you got a mounting and side stones as well. I thought you were just talking about the center diamond alone. Good luck with your purchase.

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In that price range you could have easily gotten a Fancy Yellow diamond even on the GIA lab report. Alot of people think that since they are buying in the Seybold building they are buying wholesale, but not always.

 

The problem with getting one that is fancy light yellow on paper is there are many many diamonds for alot less in the 2.00 ct. range in fancy light yellow. It might be hard to resell if ever need be.

So because of the GIA saying it was fancy light yellow, I wouldn't pay over $9000 for the stone in a SI2 grade. Maybe $9500 in the VS.

 

Hey Jan, so you were assuming loose diamond- yet you told elklown he could "easily" get a 2 carat Fancy Yellow for that price ( $11500).

 

I strongly disagree, even on that basis. The price of nicely cut 2 carat Fancy Yellow ( of course with GIA) clean stones iis easily $7k per carat, or $14k for a nice looking 2 carat.

 

You also indicate resale is tough on a Fancy Light Yellow.

Do you stand by these statements?

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Hi Everyone,

Here's a photo of a diamond GIA called "fancy Light Yellow"

376c.JPG

 

Jan- are you saying that someone who bought a $20,000 white diamond from you would have an easier time re-couping their money if they had to re-sell as compared to someone who'd bought a $20,000 Fancy Light Yellow from you?

 

I'd really love to hear your answers!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry for the delay, but I finally got the ring in hand and I don't know why I was worried - it is absolutely spectacular. For just over 11 thousand I shouldn't be complaining about any diamond of 2 carats, not to mention a yellow diamond. I am trying to attach a photo, unfortunately none of my cameras have an adequate macro mode and the lighting is probably not perfect (but its hard to set up a photo studio in my house when I'm hiding the ring from someone). I can see "the inclusion" I would describe it as a little facet slightly off center, but it only visible to my naked eye when the lighting is absolutely right and I am looking for it at an angle, 95 percent of the time I cannot see it at all even when I know exactly where to look for it. Overall I think I did well, the color is very close to fancy and I think I gave good on the clarity for size. If she sees it and it becomes a problem the dealer's policy is a lifetime exchange at purchase price, but I hope she loves it as I do. I really appreciate everyone's help.

 

post-113990-1194554264_thumb.jpg post-113990-1194554253_thumb.jpg

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I'm sorry, please forgive my confusion but could someone give me an idea what "eye-clean" is. I was under the impression that only "I" clarity diamonds were not eye clean and that SI were eye-clean.

 

It's tought with my diamond, I almost never see the inclusion, even though I know where it is, however there are occasions that I have seen it but to do so I have to see it for a fraction of a second as the light hits it at a 90 degree angle and I'm looking at like 15 degrees right off the table.

 

I've tried to figure it out, but I hear everything from 12 inches away to face up only (which I cannot see).

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Hi,

Actually, being SI does not guarantee a diamond is eye clean- nor does being an I1 guarantee the imperfection is visible...GIA clarity grading is based on the presence of imperfection, not it's visibility.

An SI stone who's imperfection shows would affect the value- as the price you paid indicates something which made a 2ct cost what it did. An fully eye clean SI1 would cost at least a few grand more-

 

Bottom line- if it does not bother you you've done very well.

We sell quite a few diamonds with visible imperfection to people who don;t mind the spot, and love the price.

Edited by diamondsbylauren
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