Jump to content

Need Help In Buying A Diamond 3 Carat In Australia


LittleSharon
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi experts, even though my husband owns a jewellery store and is well aquanted with diamonds, we are having a lot of trouble deciding on what diamond to buy for me!!!!!!

 

BTW, my husband mainly sells opals and pearls and does not stock any large diamonds himself, but can buy them.

 

Well, it was with much shock and horror that I saw the budget creeping up from the low 20`s to the mid 20`s to the mid 30`s and now we are over 40 with GST!!!!

 

Well, the problem is what combination of the 4 c`s do you choose and where do you draw the line. I also have to add that the more you look into it the more you feel you must have in terms of color and sparkle. ie as you get older your standards go up, often more than your budget though!!!!

 

Also in Australia it is hard to get a lot of stock of 3 carat stones to look at, especially in our price range. My dh is at a jewellery fair now and has given me 2 options that are the following

 

color I SI1

color D SI3 or P1 eye clean though

 

The D color presents as very white and good fire but goes into the $40 thousand mark, which seems a shame to pay so much for a P1???

 

Both are 3 carats and round.

 

I know all the other stats are important too, but for me, I only care about it looking good on my finger. It wont be sitting next to another `better` diamond what ever the case. I guess if I have to choose it would be colour and cut over quality.

I have been trialing diamonds in the I-J color range and the tint got stronger as the novelty of having a big diamond wore off !!!!

 

Any suggestions for a hard to please wife!!!! Any one here supply to Australia?

TIA, Sharon

Edited by LittleSharon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Sharon,

 

This is a balancing act that is done by every jewelry shopper everywhere. Every one starts out looking for a 5ct D/IF/Ideal because ‘she’s worth it’ until get hit with the reality of the price. A house would be cheaper, at least my house would be.

 

The tool at the top of the page titled ‘find online jeweler’ is really helpful in this, even if you have no intention of buying online. Choose a set of parameters, fill in the blanks and see what comes up for offers. You can sort by price by clicking twice on the header of the price column and check out the ones that are a little bit down from the most expensive. Ignore the ones that seem out of line because they’re probably just data entry errors. Then tweak one parameter, like clarity or size, and see what it does to the prices. Repeat this process for a while and you’ll get a pretty good feel for how these things interrelate.

 

Maximum bling/dollar ratio is a common objective and the popular route is G-J colors, SI clarities, VG+ cutting. Personally, I would maximize cutting and weight before either of the other 2 but this gets into a matter of taste.

 

For what it’s worth, my wife wears a J/SI2. It’s even kind of a weak SI2 but it’s bright enough to interfere with air traffic because of the cutting and I could get the size up and stay in budget by compromising on both color and clarity.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Neil, I was hoping that you would reply, because not only do I get some great advice, but I get a lot of entertainment too!

 

One of the issues here in Australia is that supply of 3 carat diamonds are fairly short. Apparantly the whole world has decided that they have diamond shrinkage factor at the same time, so everyone wants a three carat.

 

Ideally I would love a ring like your wife`s, but I just cant cherry pick here. Of course if my budget was to go up to $50 there would be more to choose from. Ideally I would even love to spend $20 or so on a drilled 3 carat that faces white and has a great light show going!!! But alas, the choices are few and far between. Each time I decline a diamond I wonder if my dh will bring me another to look at. So it is a big decision for me to keep holding out for a better price or combination, not knowing if my h. will get anything better or at all.

 

Im curious of what the supply and demand is like OS and if anyone sells to Australia.

So far I have declined a beautiful 3.6 c. emerald, very clear and white, but no sparkle, then I declined an oval 3 c. J-K with light show from Vegas!!!! So ideally I will find something inbetween!

 

Regards Sharon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im curious of what the supply and demand is like OS and if anyone sells to Australia.

 

Sharon,

 

Prices are up in the US too. Sellers depending on middle-America are feeling a squeeze with oil & interest rates up and luxury spending down. Profit margins worldwide are being sucked out upstream by mining houses and sucked out downstream by vertical integration (Wal-Mart, Costco, etc) and the pricing info available to consumers on the internet is being used to challenge ‘traditional’ markups in retail stores. Rough prices climb even as the margins shrink for sellers.

 

China’s escalating development is impacting the world market. Their purchasing power increases as the US dollar becomes weaker. The diamond tradition for engagement rings has escalated rapidly there; 30,000+ weddings in Shanghai alone during 'golden week' last year. The government is fostering this growth: China’s VAT has been reduced from 17% to 4% for finished goods, throwing open supply lines. Even more significant is no VAT whatsoever on diamond rough brought into China. As of August 06 there were 5000 processing units, 200,000 diamond cutters and some 2 million people involved in the diamond and jewelry manufacturing trade there. Increasing demand from China’s own population has already changed the global diamond marketplace, with more significant growth anticipated.

 

Canada is poised to become one of the world’s strongest future suppliers. Today Canada supplies 15% (by value) of rough diamonds to the trade. The Ekati, Diavik and Snap Lake developments in the Northwest Territories are new trade bread and butter and they are only the start. In Saskatchewan a mining operation is being created atop the world’s largest existing diamondiferous kimberlite field and other operations are in scouting and planning at this time. By 2016 Canada’s contribution to the world supply is estimated to be of much more considerable significance. The Canada-China relationship could result in a larger version of the Australia-India relationship that changed the industry in the 80s and 90s. The difference, this time, is that the US may not be driving demand in the new scenario.

 

The internet has made the whole world smaller :) (hi Sharon, hi Neil) and it is possible to find a specimen like you're seeking through a seller with connections to good supply lines. Prices for larger goods have risen steadily and, while there is no need to panic, there is no reason to wait since those prices won't likely come down. I suggest a good option is to interface with a professional you trust to secure, fully analyze and approve a nice stone for you. The use of an independent appraiser to confirm the choice and provide verification would be a logical step too, if you purchase the diamond through someone outside of AU. Best wishes.

Edited by JohnQuixote
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sharon,

 

There’s no vast conspiracy against Aussie’s going on. Awesome 3ct. stones are a bear to find everywhere. The problem is that miners don’t really have much opportunity to choose their production. They get whatever God put there, and what they’re currently getting is a lot more ten pointers than 3 caraters. Demand, on the other hand, is a function of population dynamics, economics and even fashion, all of the things that John points out in the post above. Currently, demand for big stones is a lot higher than the supply.

 

Most of the big dealers, including all of the ones who regularly participate in this forum, will be tickled to sell to a customer in Australia with the understanding that you will be responsible for the import taxes yourself. It’s really logistically pretty easy. This brings to the front part of the problem of diamond shopping. Shipping isn’t free and tying up $50k in money for a few weeks while you inspect the stone, get it appraised and make a decision isn’t free either. It’s inconvenient as hell to bring in a few stones, choose one and return the rest. That’s why you’re hesitant to do it. I point this out because that’s exactly what your dealer is doing and it’s not free for him/her either. That’s why stones cost more there, these folks expect to be paid for their trouble. How much they get paid is a matter of negotiation and, in the extreme, you do have the opportunity to do it yourself. Lots of people do.

 

 

Here's an example of a diamond that looks pretty promising. It looks like it's from one of the virtual lists so it's likely that any dealer you want to work with can get it for a similar price. It's not even out of the question that one of your husband's suppliers can get it if he's connected into the diamond business although I'm not sure how multi-national those networks are. It's pushing your luck a bit far to buy and ship something like this to Australia without having someone you trust look at it first but this will give you and idea of what the pricing is like here.

 

http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamo...9a22379a73ac764

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

John, that was fascinating to read. Thank you for explaining the dynamics that are taking place as we speak!!!! I was aware of the new Asian demand for diamonds, partially due to clever marketing and correct timing. Previously buying diamonds was not part of the marriage custom. So I guess what you are saying is that some of us would do well to open up a shop or two in Asia!!!!!!!

 

There are so many issues that you raise, we could talk for hours!!!

 

When the Aust. dollar started going up, I thought that it might result in a cheaper diamond for me, or a bigger one???? But, as you have said demand seems to be keeping prices high. My husband insists that it is the supply being kept on a short leash that is really keeping prices up, rather than this issue of diamond shortage??? Either way, supply or demand driven, the prices dont seem to be dropping, so I think I will accept that as a given.

 

My h. predicts that at some point, if not now there will be no such thing as a retail price for diamonds as there used to be, distinct from wholesale. I dont know what this will mean for many bricks and morter diamond merchants. Branded outlets like Tiffanies probably wont be as effected. Even for wholesalers the profit margins are so small, and it seems that world market prices are very consistant, allowing for taxes and transfort costs. So, yes, the diamond market seems like an open book with lots of info. being available due to the net.

 

Before you had to be a trader to get a good deal or wholesale, now almost anybody can. Some retailers have told me they dont even expect to make money on the diamond but perhaps hope to make money on the setting they sell with it.

 

Now back to me.....( Ive become this selfish bling greedy woman)......since I was reading about how important the 4 c`s are etc, I was expecting to compare many stones. As it turns out, I will be making my decision based on only a handful. Somehow I had the impression that OS people got to see many diamonds and compare minute differences.

 

I was also surprised to read about how much some (richer?) people os spend on the er. In Australia you dont often see people with extreemly large diamonds even when they could easily afford them.

 

Thanks again for the amazing info. I will continue researching, learning and enjoying seeing what others do with their choices and opinions. I can see that you really know what you are talking about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for that Neil. As it turns out , we did check the prices as per your advice, and they seem on par with our prices. Of course the difference is that you might have more choice, thus allowing you to tweek your parameters in real life.

 

For me, I am leaning towards the D color one. My husband assures me that the cut and proportions are good and that the SI2-P1 mark can not be seen on the top when it is face up. I know I am paying a premium for a color that is higher than I need it to be. The other stone to choose from at the moment is lower color I and better quality, but it is about 7 thousand dollars more. So at the end of the day I dont care if my stone is marked as long as it is a hidden mark. I will get to see it next week, will try to take a photo to show you guys!!!

 

FWIW, there is a lot more to choose from here but I am sticking to a low end budget for a high end size, so we have to keep that in mind. If I were to go down in size or up in budget, the coices would be greater.

 

And lastly, I wasnt so concerned about a conspiracy against Aust. as a conspiracy by my dh!!!!! He doesnt realise that having his wife wear a 3 carat diamond is exactly what God intended for her to wear!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John, that was fascinating to read. Thank you for explaining the dynamics that are taking place as we speak!!!! I was aware of the new Asian demand for diamonds, partially due to clever marketing and correct timing. Previously buying diamonds was not part of the marriage custom. So I guess what you are saying is that some of us would do well to open up a shop or two in Asia!!!!!!!

 

There are so many issues that you raise, we could talk for hours!!!

 

When the Aust. dollar started going up, I thought that it might result in a cheaper diamond for me, or a bigger one???? But, as you have said demand seems to be keeping prices high. My husband insists that it is the supply being kept on a short leash that is really keeping prices up, rather than this issue of diamond shortage??? Either way, supply or demand driven, the prices dont seem to be dropping, so I think I will accept that as a given.

 

My h. predicts that at some point, if not now there will be no such thing as a retail price for diamonds as there used to be, distinct from wholesale. I dont know what this will mean for many bricks and morter diamond merchants. Branded outlets like Tiffanies probably wont be as effected. Even for wholesalers the profit margins are so small, and it seems that world market prices are very consistant, allowing for taxes and transfort costs. So, yes, the diamond market seems like an open book with lots of info. being available due to the net.

 

Before you had to be a trader to get a good deal or wholesale, now almost anybody can. Some retailers have told me they dont even expect to make money on the diamond but perhaps hope to make money on the setting they sell with it.

Sharon,

 

Thanks for the kind feedback. I have a black belt in talking, so be careful not to get me started or we'll be up til the sun rises... Supply used to be monopolized by DeBeers but your country had a lot to do with loosening their iron grip. Now BHPB and Rio Tinto are flexing muscle, especially as DeBeers scurries to play catch-up in Canada. One thing to remember is that new supply lines don’t mean that larger sizes will become less rare. In fact the opposite is true; as millions more carats of small rough is mined the larger sizes become ever-more rare relative to total new output! Sure, there may be more pieces available but the prices won’t relax because people are literally lined up to snatch the collection colors and high clarity goods in large sizes.

 

With that said, as crazy as it seems, we’re seeing less profit selling 3ct+ than lower weights simply because we must price them so close to what the mining houses & manufacturers are charging. Something consumers don’t readily understand is that a diamond which has been in our inventory for a year must be priced at the current going rate; because we have to sell it for what it costs to replace it in inventory today, not what we purchased it for in 2006. Your husband is right on in that many retailers are now turning to settings for their bread & butter. In fact, retailers must add value in as many ways as possible with short & long term guarantees and other purchase benefits. In the words of Martin Rapaport “if all you’re doing is flipping diamonds you’ll soon be flipping burgers.â€

 

As for you, forget that whole “selfishy†thing. I much prefer your “God intended her to wear 3ct†attitude (and so would my fiancé!). :P

 

If you’re married to D color that's cool, but you may know you can go near-colorless and improve the cut which will improve the overall performance qualities which will improve the “ahhhh†factor. Nothing wrong with clarity-enhancements for those who know what they’re getting into, but one aspect you may want to consider is future growth. 1ct+, D-K, VS+ is currently targeted by the Rap group (more here). We'll see how that goes. Disregarding VS for now, an H/SI of premium cut will go for about what a clarity-enhanced D of commercial cut will; and frankly I’d rather hear you come back here bragging about the fireworks show it puts on. But that’s me. Your feet are on solid ground, so take my input FWIW. I'm an admitted cut addict - you can sub the work geek for addict if you like - attending weekly CGA meetings. :blink:

Edited by JohnQuixote
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fact, retailers must add value in as many ways as possible with short & long term guarantees and other purchase benefits. In the words of Martin Rapaport “if all you’re doing is flipping diamonds you’ll soon be flipping burgers.â€

 

As for you, forget that whole “selfishy†thing. I much prefer your “God intended her to wear 3ct†attitude (and so would my fiancé!). :P

 

If you’re married to D color that's cool, but you may know you can go near-colorless and improve the cut which will improve the overall performance qualities which will improve the “ahhhh†factor. Nothing wrong with clarity-enhancements for those who know what they’re getting into, but one aspect you may want to consider is future growth. 1ct+, D-K, VS+ is currently targeted by the Rap group (more here). We'll see how that goes. Disregarding VS for now, an H/SI of premium cut will go for about what a clarity-enhanced D of commercial cut will; and frankly I’d rather hear you come back here bragging about the fireworks show it puts on. But that’s me. Your feet are on solid ground, so take my input FWIW. I'm an admitted cut addict - you can sub the work geek for addict if you like - attending weekly CGA meetings. :blink:

 

 

John, love the flipping burgers line!!!! If you want to hear about a real hard luck industry, have a thought for our pearl sellers. Pearls have come down in price enormously, and many pearl sellers are stuck with expensive inventory that is 20 - 30 % more expensive than it would cost today. They literally have been left holding the baby!!!! My husband has had to reprice all his old stock down. For some wholesalers this is devestating because it wipes out all their profit on the stock they are holding. Hopefully this will be absorbed without too much pain for all concerned!!! But good news for the consumer at least.

 

Now, although God did intend for me to wear a 3 carat diamond, he forgot to give me the proper funding (husband). Please correct me if Im wrong, but I feel that $50g + is a fair amount to get all C`s in the excellent range, maybe G color, VS +, excellent cut etc. But I am trying to spend less than $40, which makes it more of a challenge. And I dont have many stones to choose from to get the best balance of 4 C`s for my money. I dont even know how you tell if the cut is excellent, apart from using your eyes?????

 

I never intended to get a D color diamond, its just that it is available in my price range.

Two questions

 

(1) how do you know you have a superior cut, which I agree is the most important C.....because I love the fire, the light show, the 24/7 Vegas attmosphere in a rock that does not stop working overtime for a second! I want a stone that does not turn off, and that you dont have to turn and twist it to get it just right to see one tiny ficker of life!!!!

 

(2) Do you think I should be going down in carat size. I might not have the same excitment but I might end up with a much better stone. FWIW, my husband thinks that in real life, a bigger less quality diamond will still out show a smaller better quality one, because people dont look at it with a fine tooth comb. They see big, and that is what its all about!!!!??? In some ways I agree with him, because I personally find it hard to pick out a bad diamond unless its extreemly like crushed ice. ie once set, most diamonds are fairly forgiving???

 

Look forward to your response.

 

ps. sounds like your fiance is set then, what did she end up with?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your husband is right, at least about the wholesale/retail part. The clear difference between retail and wholesale disappeared long ago. A significant majority of jewelers describe themselves as wholesalers even though what they are doing is selling things one at a time to the end consumer. Put whatever you want on the sign, that’s still retailing. Wholesale, in the way that it exists with many other products simply doesn't apply.

 

This is easiest to demonstrate in the very high end, say over $5M each stones. 100% of the people who buy such things are savvy multi-national buyers and 100% of the sellers are equally savvy folks. Both sides are armed with skilled lawyers, gemologists and appraisers to advise them in the deal. No one carries what you could call ‘inventory’ of this sort of thing and a quantity purchase is simply not possible. If you wanted one, what you would do is to put out feelers to your connections in the trade that you might be interested in such a thing if it came up and you would make an indication what your preferences are like. They, in turn, would put out the word that they have a buyer available for the right deal and everyone would wait around for a bit. In the meantime, if you had one and you wanted to sell it, you would do approximately the same thing. You would mention to your associates that, for the right price, this one might be on the market. Maybe you just decided you don’t want it any more or that you need the money for something else but likely it’s part of some estate settlement and the beneficiaries would rather have the money than a big rock so they let it be known that it’s on the market. When a connection comes together, there are a few brokerage fees paid for greasing the wheels and a deal gets made. ‘Wholesale’ and ‘retail’ are concepts that never apply and it doesn’t make a lick of difference if you or any of your allies owns a jewelry store or not. Anyone who can afford a stone like this could buy a jewelry store if they wanted one after all, and quite a few have done so if for no other reason than because it's fun to say you own a jewelry store. They obviously like jewelry after all. Only a few dozen of these things change hands worldwide each year and there are only a few hundred of them total in private hands. The people who are paying attention, meaning the industry insiders and collectors who are involved in this trade try to watch and track every one of them because sooner or later, that buyer is going to die or get tired of it as well and there will be another chance at a deal on the table. Diamonds are forever – owners are not.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

John, love the flipping burgers line!!!! If you want to hear about a real hard luck industry, have a thought for our pearl sellers. Pearls have come down in price enormously, and many pearl sellers are stuck with expensive inventory that is 20 - 30 % more expensive than it would cost today. They literally have been left holding the baby!!!! My husband has had to reprice all his old stock down. For some wholesalers this is devestating because it wipes out all their profit on the stock they are holding. Hopefully this will be absorbed without too much pain for all concerned!!! But good news for the consumer at least.

 

Now, although God did intend for me to wear a 3 carat diamond, he forgot to give me the proper funding (husband). Please correct me if Im wrong, but I feel that $50g + is a fair amount to get all C`s in the excellent range, maybe G color, VS +, excellent cut etc. But I am trying to spend less than $40, which makes it more of a challenge. And I dont have many stones to choose from to get the best balance of 4 C`s for my money. I dont even know how you tell if the cut is excellent, apart from using your eyes?????

 

I never intended to get a D color diamond, its just that it is available in my price range.

Two questions

 

(1) how do you know you have a superior cut, which I agree is the most important C.....because I love the fire, the light show, the 24/7 Vegas attmosphere in a rock that does not stop working overtime for a second! I want a stone that does not turn off, and that you dont have to turn and twist it to get it just right to see one tiny ficker of life!!!!

 

(2) Do you think I should be going down in carat size. I might not have the same excitment but I might end up with a much better stone. FWIW, my husband thinks that in real life, a bigger less quality diamond will still out show a smaller better quality one, because people dont look at it with a fine tooth comb. They see big, and that is what its all about!!!!??? In some ways I agree with him, because I personally find it hard to pick out a bad diamond unless its extreemly like crushed ice. ie once set, most diamonds are fairly forgiving???

 

Look forward to your response.

 

ps. sounds like your fiance is set then, what did she end up with?

 

Sorry to hear about the pearl situation. One thing that happens in the pearl industry is red tide. Last year’s red tide wiped out whole farms which caused prices to go up. There was no red tide this year and freshwater pearls have also gotten better; people often can’t tell the difference between those and saltwater. My understanding is that Tahitian pearls and south sea pearls remain pretty high in price and demand, as do Akoya pearls from Japan (the ones coming out of China are a different story). Is this what you’re seeing?

 

Glad you liked the burger flip. I thought it was funny too. To answer your questions - if you’re considering a sight-unseen purchase its critical to work with a professional you trust to identify a diamond of top pedigree and demonstrate its performance. That may be a trusted seller, an independent appraiser or both. A common way to know superior cut without actually seeing the stone is to insist on several forms of pedigree. The AGS “Ideal†cut grade in light performance is highly regarded. Their grade is based on assessment of light return using natural devices to show angular spectrum. Some internet sellers have adopted the practice of showing photos taken in such devices to demonstrate the quality of the diamond's light return (see this tutorial). As mentioned, there are sellers and appraisers who use these and other means to guarantee best possible cut if you are shopping sight-unseen. At these prices you should also expect a good examination period and some kind of long-term benefit like a future trade-up option from the seller (even if you don't plan to use it).

 

My personal advice would be not to “lock†yourself into a D color unless it really means something to you or the diamond screams your name in person… I don’t think you should necessarily go down in carat weight, nor do you need to sacrifice cut. There are other options to allow that fireworks show you’re requesting for your buck. Using a snapshot of today’s prices, a premium cut RB right at 3cts (something really alive which GIA and AGS would both consider in their top cut grade) runs around $50K for G/VS2. Going to H/VS drops you closer to $40K but I understand the hesitation to go lower in color at such a large size. Moving to G/SI puts you in the under-$40K range. These are internet snapshots; retail pricing can be higher.

 

My fiancé “wound up†:blink: with a 1.57ct diamond that had cut as its highest priority (thanks for asking). My employer features a signature line of near-Tolkowksy diamonds cut to a pretty specific range with heavy emphasis on optical symmetry (hearts & arrows). He made me a good deal. You'll find that stones of high cut quality often face-up more colorless than their lab grade - which was judged from the side - and show inclusions less because of the maximized performance qualities. That’s why they go for a bit of a premium, but I think it’s worth it. Cut is king...Long live the king.

Edited by JohnQuixote
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Neil and John, I appreciate both your feed back, and want to thank you for your comments so far.

 

With these 5m diamonds, do they get worn??? I wonder if the owners realise that there are people looking at their watches, checking birthdates, ages stuff like that? You know, the bit about diamonds are forever, but the owners arent!!!! Its true though, everything we have is on borrowed time, almost like rent.

 

As for the pearls, dont know too much, but my husband sells beautiful pearls, not artificially coloured, just saltwater I think. The other day I borrowed a strand of the biggest, most beautiful luster `gold` pearls and earrings(with diamonds) and I felt like I was in hollywood!!!! He says the price of pearls has gone down (in Australia) because our dollar is stronger and the crops have just been bumper!!!! Pearl farmers must be learning more productive methods?????

 

Now I have been driving my husband crazy about the cut etc. To which he answers, there is just not a lot around to sit and choose.....and how much am I prepared to spend. So I have 2 important things holding me back, lack of choice and budgetary restrictions.

 

So my next question is......other than your eyes seeing the fire and sparkle and being happy with the one in question, does it matter what a report says. I have my husband to give me guidelines as to correct labeling of color and clarity as good as any report. But he is no expert on cut other than to know if it looks beautiful from his point of view.

 

And from what I read, even the lower facets under the pavillion can effect light performance. eg things not apparent in the cut grade. I read that even a hearts and arrows diamond can have poor light action and have leakage???( According to Ideal scope???). All these issues makes the cut or the `motor` of the diamond very hard to determine. And afterall, it appears that the main thing we are buying, is the motor!!!!!

 

 

My existing ring is statistically amazing, its E and VS1 or similar......but the cut is not good, and it is only lately after years of me commenting on how strange it is that my ring has minimal fire...that my h. admitted that the point at the bottom is not symetrical.ie cut is flawed, performance very compromised!!!!!!

 

Please tell me if he is correct.......he thinks that good color and clarity pretty much guarantee that the cut will be better, as its worth the effort for the cutter. He also thinks that it would be pretty rare for a poor quality stone to have a brilliant cut, so stop looking for miracles, sort of thing!!!!!

 

I keep asking for a G or H, SI1 or SI2 with brilliant cut.....he says I cant choose every aspect of it or I could be waiting forever!

 

And guys I wanted to tell you about this diamond that I owned for one day....on trial. It was an oval, 3.6 c, color K, sparkle like I have never seen before and probably never will again. It was so firey that it defied belief. You could see it from across a room, it was electric.....and it gave me a taste of what a diamond is really capable of. It was an honour to have been able to experience such beauty. It didnt matter what the lighting conditions were, or the position of the ring, it was just like watching something that was almost alive and really on fire!!!!

 

And one last question. Can a diamond be too white and look like its fake or like ice, or is the whiter the better all things being equal? Ive noticed that most diamonds have some yellow tint in them, especially the large ones, or they face up really metally grey.

 

And John, Im pretty sure your partner would see you as being her very lucky first prize, diamond as nice bonus!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my next question is......other than your eyes seeing the fire and sparkle and being happy with the one in question, does it matter what a report says. I have my husband to give me guidelines as to correct labeling of color and clarity as good as any report. But he is no expert on cut other than to know if it looks beautiful from his point of view.

 

And from what I read, even the lower facets under the pavillion can effect light performance. eg things not apparent in the cut grade. I read that even a hearts and arrows diamond can have poor light action and have leakage???( According to Ideal scope???). All these issues makes the cut or the `motor` of the diamond very hard to determine. And afterall, it appears that the main thing we are buying, is the motor!!!!!

 

Absolutely. It does matter. Even among diamonds with top light return (a small percentage of those cut) there are differences in taste: A high crown/small table will be brilliant, but with more fire in the performance. Couple that with short lower halves on the pavilion (as you mentioned) and the colored flashes in its scint will be broader; closer to what you'd see in a cushion cut. A low crown/large table will have colored flashed but more whiteness & brightness in the performance. Couple it with long lower halves and you'll see a fast, sizzling pinpoint quality to the scintillation. All of this depends on exact config, lighting-lighting-lighting and your eyesight of course; some people are more cut-sensitive just like others are more color-sensitive. Once you're at the top level of light return it's really simple taste - and most people who admire it won't see it as anything but a kick-butt sparkly rock. My fiance has yet to have someone grab her hand and say "Wow! Are those 77% lower halves coupled with Tolkowsky crown & pavilion angles?!" They just say wow and ooh and ahh about how it "sparkles."

 

Describing cut as the motor is exactly right because it drives performance - and your reading is correct about H&A diamonds. Just because a diamond shows a H&A pattern (no matter how precise) does not mean it has premium light return. Light return is far more of a priority. An ideal-scope or ASET image is helpful in terms of performance, where H&A photos only show optical symmetry/craftsmanship. In diamonds with top light return the benefits of optical symmetry are contrast and consistency in performance when cut to the same tight range. Sometimes a 'near-H&A' level of optical symmetry can be a by-product of cutting to top proportions (what some who focus on extreme H&A precision might call a 'happy accident' :P ). Diamonds displaying the highest levels of optical symmetry - those crafted to top levels of cut precision on-purpose - are valued by enthusiasts for matters of craftsmanship as much as any effects on performance. On the other hand, some people prefer the random look of asymmetry. Optical symmetry is not a requirement for diamond beauty.

 

Cutting has improved greatly in the last decade or so because our tools and measuring devices have improved. Yes, you can find diamonds in non-collection colors and lower clarities with premium cut. In fact, it’s more lucrative to cut such rough this way because the better cut improves the appearance of the stone. I may have mentioned before that great cut can entrap less body color and great performance helps mask inclusions. There are G-J, SI diamonds (and lower) of cut quality that will knock your socks off. They're out there - you just have to know where to source them. You won’t find that cut quality in most commercial markets because in mass-manufacture it’s more profitable to ‘knock it into shape,’ send it out with no cut info and sell it under blazing jewelry store lights where consumers ask no cut questions (simply because they are not educated about it). Overall it’s less cost-effective to cut any rough to precise measurements. The good news is that consumers and sellers who focus on cut quality as a priority have created a niche demand for premium cut. Labs like the AGSL and GIA are responding by providing cut info and cut grading. Fortunately for the consumer, to move up in cut often requires less of a premium than jumping up in color or clarity. Crazy, yes, but it works to your advantage.

 

Color and inclusions are more visible in larger sizes, where the diamond has a larger body. It’s a stone-by-stone call; remember color and clarity are both ranges, they are not fixed. Again, the best solution if you’re worried about any of this in the sight-unseen market, is to work with a professional you trust to assist you in selection by hearing and responding to what you want.

 

Thanks for the comments about my lady. I was lucky to find a smart, beautiful gal with a weakness for bald guys and a poor judge of character. :blink:

Edited by JohnQuixote
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely. It does matter. Even among diamonds with top light return (a small percentage of those cut) there are differences in taste: A high crown/small table will be brilliant, but with more fire in the performance. Couple that with short lower halves on the pavilion (as you mentioned) and the colored flashes in its scint will be broader; closer to what you'd see in a cushion cut. A low crown/large table will have colored flashed but more whiteness & brightness in the performance. Couple it with long lower halves and you'll see a fast, sizzling pinpoint quality to the scintillation. All of this depends on exact config, lighting-lighting-lighting and your eyesight of course; some people are more cut-sensitive just like others are more color-sensitive. Once you're at the top level of light return it's really simple taste - and most people who admire it won't see it as anything but a kick-butt sparkly rock. My fiance has yet to have someone grab her hand and say "Wow! Are those 77% lower halves coupled with Tolkowsky crown & pavilion angles?!" They just say wow and ooh and ahh about how it "sparkles."

 

Describing cut as the motor is exactly right because it drives performance - and your reading is correct about H&A diamonds. Just because a diamond shows a H&A pattern (no matter how precise) does not mean it has premium light return. Light return is far more of a priority. An ideal-scope or ASET image is helpful in terms of performance, where H&A photos only show optical symmetry/craftsmanship. In diamonds with top light return the benefits of optical symmetry are contrast and consistency in performance when cut to the same tight range. Sometimes a 'near-H&A' level of optical symmetry can be a by-product of cutting to top proportions (what some who focus on extreme H&A precision might call a 'happy accident' :P ). Diamonds displaying the highest levels of optical symmetry - those crafted to top levels of cut precision on-purpose - are valued by enthusiasts for matters of craftsmanship as much as any effects on performance. On the other hand, some people prefer the random look of asymmetry. Optical symmetry is not a requirement for diamond beauty.

 

Cutting has improved greatly in the last decade or so because our tools and measuring devices have improved. Yes, you can find diamonds in non-collection colors and lower clarities with premium cut. In fact, it’s more lucrative to cut such rough this way because the better cut improves the appearance of the stone. I may have mentioned before that great cut can entrap less body color and great performance helps mask inclusions. There are G-J, SI diamonds (and lower) of cut quality that will knock your socks off. They're out there - you just have to know where to source them. You won’t find that cut quality in most commercial markets because in mass-manufacture it’s more profitable to ‘knock it into shape,’ send it out with no cut info and sell it under blazing jewelry store lights where consumers ask no cut questions (simply because they are not educated about it). Overall it’s less cost-effective to cut any rough to precise measurements. The good news is that consumers and sellers who focus on cut quality as a priority have created a niche demand for premium cut. Labs like the AGSL and GIA are responding by providing cut info and cut grading. Fortunately for the consumer, to move up in cut often requires less of a premium than jumping up in color or clarity. Crazy, yes, but it works to your advantage.

 

Color and inclusions are more visible in larger sizes, where the diamond has a larger body. It’s a stone-by-stone call; remember color and clarity are both ranges, they are not fixed. Again, the best solution if you’re worried about any of this in the sight-unseen market, is to work with a professional you trust to assist you in selection by hearing and responding to what you want.

 

Thanks for the comments about my lady. I was lucky to find a smart, beautiful gal with a weakness for bald guys and a poor judge of character. :blink:

 

Ok, just want you to know that I have studied every word that you have written. If I could fly to America and get you personally to choose my diamond I would! Short of that, I am going to store everything that you have said about how to choose a diamond etc.

 

Mind you, Im beginning to feel like I didnt even put this much critique into my husband before marrying him!!!!

 

I have a few hypothetical questions. Do you predict a new market one day where everyone will be aware of cut is king. How do the cutters of the top 10% of cuts determine which qualities (brightness or fire) they will try to capture or which ratios they will try to use? Do you think buyers will ever have their diamonds custom cut and the actual `cutter` will be famous and in high demand. eg this diamond was cut by the famous Mr XYZ, so of course it`s a good investment. Do you think that in the future diamonds will be judged more on their light performance than ever, and that buying a diamond with that in mind will ensure it stays in high demand in tomorrows market? Also, do you think the average person can be bothered knowing these details, and does it take away from the `magic` or romance associated with diamonds. I suspect that this is why Tif. is doing so well. The average person can avoid having to learn and search and still save face by placing the burden of choosing to Tiff. The T. experience lets the buyer have it all, at a price!

 

And,for fun, I have coined a few phrases.....I think we will see a new type of diamond admirer who will be classed as a diamond `conesseur`. I think people will take more interest as they get more educated and you might get collectors like people who collect Rolex watches. I think we will start seeing episodes of `fire envy` and this should definately be incorperated in future marketing campaigns imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
  • Create New...