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Another..... What Do You Think Question


OTT13979
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Price: $9,301

Bank wire price: $9,162

Carat weight: 0.92

Cut: Ideal

Color: E

Clarity: VVS1

Depth %: 61.8%

Table %: 56%

Symmetry: Excellent

Polish: Excellent

Girdle: Medium

Culet: None

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 6.23 x 6.26 x 3.86 mm

 

 

See attached picture of the ring

 

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

I bought my first ring for my X at the mall.... So with that being said I'm looking online for my second ring....

 

This is what I found.... Click Me what do you think?

post-113317-1182813911_thumb.jpg

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HI Eric,

That's a mighty high quality- resulting in a rather small diamond for over $9k....

If that's what you're looking for, by all means go for it..... but many people go in other directions.

For example, a nice VS2- or even an SI- can be a really nice diamond...

 

 

I agree there is no reason you should not go with lower clarity, color to get a bigger stone.

 

Moshe

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My fiancé has very very small hands (she weighs just a shade over 100lbs) We have looked @ bigger diamonds (1.00<) and they look funny on her small hand..... So with that said.....

 

do you still like my choice?

Based upon the numbers alone do you think this is a quality stone?

Do you think that I can get cheaper diamond and it will still look good to the naked eye?

 

Price: $9,301

Bank wire price: $9,162

Carat weight: 0.92

Cut: Ideal

Color: E

Clarity: VVS1

Depth %: 61.8%

Table %: 56%

Symmetry: Excellent

Polish: Excellent

Girdle: Medium

Culet: None

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 6.23 x 6.26 x 3.86 mm

 

 

See attached picture of the ring

 

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

I bought my first ring for my X at the mall.... So with that being said I'm looking online for my second ring....

 

This is what I found.... Click Me what do you think?

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Why do you feel you need a VVS1? If you know 1.00+ct looks funny on her finger, why do you want to spend $9000+ on the diamond alone?

 

Believe me when you put a 1ct diamond on her finger she will not refuse it.

 

If you just want to spend $9000+ then I'd get a 0.85ct D/IF or a 1.00ct VS1/E. Realistically speaking 0.91ct vs 1.00ct is not much of a difference in size, I don't think you or her would even notice to be honest. But if you're just itching to spend the money at least the first is a "perfect flawess colorless" diamond and the second is a "high quality 1ct". 0.91ct VVS1/E is very nice as well but it just seems to be on the cusp of being either perfect or 1ct and there's no reason you can't have one or the other, and for resale value later, you'd be better off getting one of the other 2, especially the 1ct.

 

Just my 2c.

 

Kind Regards,

Yosef

 

 

My fiancé has very very small hands (she weighs just a shade over 100lbs) We have looked @ bigger diamonds (1.00<) and they look funny on her small hand..... So with that said.....

 

do you still like my choice?

Based upon the numbers alone do you think this is a quality stone?

Do you think that I can get cheaper diamond and it will still look good to the naked eye?

 

Price: $9,301

Bank wire price: $9,162

Carat weight: 0.92

Cut: Ideal

Color: E

Clarity: VVS1

Depth %: 61.8%

Table %: 56%

Symmetry: Excellent

Polish: Excellent

Girdle: Medium

Culet: None

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 6.23 x 6.26 x 3.86 mm

 

 

See attached picture of the ring

 

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

I bought my first ring for my X at the mall.... So with that being said I'm looking online for my second ring....

 

This is what I found.... Click Me what do you think?

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do you still like my choice?

Based upon the numbers alone do you think this is a quality stone?

Do you think that I can get cheaper diamond and it will still look good to the naked eye?

 

It’s amazing how big diamonds tend to grow on you. I don’t recall ever hearing of this ‘too big for my finger’ complaint from a woman who actually had such a stone and the root of the issue is more one of not wishing to embarrass her friends with a huge rock. This is a valid enough reason but the business that a big diamond looks misplaced on a smaller hand is not supported by at least my own observations. Within sensible limits, most women want a bigger and better diamond but they sometimes have a tough time justifying it in their own minds.

 

That said, there’s nothing wrong with VVS1/E and it’s very possible that this stone will really shine. There’s just not enough information to give a meaningful answer. Who called it ‘ideal’? Do you have any clue what they are using as a scale? The link you used says it's been GIA graded, which doesn't include 'ideal' on their scale so something else is being applied here. Have you seen it and have you had the opportunity to compare it with others?

 

You can DEFINITELY get a cheaper diamond that will look as good or possibly better to the naked eye but, as you point out, this is not your only criteria or even necessarily the most important one. That's why all the questions about your reasoning behind your selection.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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Neil,

 

You got a good point on the size.....

 

I assume Blue Nile called it "Ideal" based upon their criteria

 

I saw this one last night on Blue Nile.... it's a bit bigger..... My budget for the center stone is around $8-9K.... I've been looking @ Blue Nile.... any other suggestions?

 

Price: $9,386

Bank wire price: $9,246

Carat weight: 1.02

Cut: Ideal

Color: E

Clarity: VVS2

Depth %: 61.7%

Table %: 57%

Symmetry: Excellent

Polish: Very good

Girdle: Medium to slightly thick

Culet: None

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 6.43 x 6.47 x 3.98 mm

 

 

 

 

do you still like my choice?

Based upon the numbers alone do you think this is a quality stone?

Do you think that I can get cheaper diamond and it will still look good to the naked eye?

 

It’s amazing how big diamonds tend to grow on you. I don’t recall ever hearing of this ‘too big for my finger’ complaint from a woman who actually had such a stone and the root of the issue is more one of not wishing to embarrass her friends with a huge rock. This is a valid enough reason but the business that a big diamond looks misplaced on a smaller hand is not supported by at least my own observations. Within sensible limits, most women want a bigger and better diamond but they sometimes have a tough time justifying it in their own minds.

 

That said, there’s nothing wrong with VVS1/E and it’s very possible that this stone will really shine. There’s just not enough information to give a meaningful answer. Who called it ‘ideal’? Do you have any clue what they are using as a scale? The link you used says it's been GIA graded, which doesn't include 'ideal' on their scale so something else is being applied here. Have you seen it and have you had the opportunity to compare it with others?

 

You can DEFINITELY get a cheaper diamond that will look as good or possibly better to the naked eye but, as you point out, this is not your only criteria or even necessarily the most important one. That's why all the questions about your reasoning behind your selection.

 

Neil

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Hi Ott,

A very important point here is that the place you are shopping has no idea what the diamond actually looks like.

 

 

AS Neil said, no one can assess a diamond properly without actually looking at it.

If a diamond is determined to be "ideal" based only on it's measurements, with no visual inspection, the title is meaningless.

 

Anyone telling you a particular diamond they've never seen is a good buy? My advice is to tell them good bye.

 

Plus, there are a lot of online sellers that have actual photos of the diamonds, so you yourself can get an idea..... why buy blind?

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do you have a recommended on-line seller?

 

otte13979@yahoo.com

 

Hi Ott,

A very important point here is that the place you are shopping has no idea what the diamond actually looks like.

 

 

AS Neil said, no one can assess a diamond properly without actually looking at it.

If a diamond is determined to be "ideal" based only on it's measurements, with no visual inspection, the title is meaningless.

 

Anyone telling you a particular diamond they've never seen is a good buy? My advice is to tell them good bye.

 

Plus, there are a lot of online sellers that have actual photos of the diamonds, so you yourself can get an idea..... why buy blind?

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Here’s a 1.21 E/VS2 that BN calls ideal.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD01079982

 

Here’s a 1.02 D/VS2 that AGS calls ideal (which is a considerably more specific standard than the in-house definition) from your same dealer.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.a...amp;filter_id=0

 

Here’s a 1.11 E/VS2/AGS.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.a...amp;filter_id=0

 

All are in the same general price bracket, all from your chosen dealer and all look reasonably promising.

 

You still haven’t really given us your parameters. Not everyone is looking for the same things. Without this information, this exercise is useless. Several of the above posters have asked. Why VVS? Why D/E? Why Blue Nile? Is the $9k number a budget limit or just what you were expecting to have to pay to get what you want?

 

Here, for example, is a 1.53 H/SI1 that, when mounted and on a finger will probably be indistinguishable from the above other than it’s considerably bigger size.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD00943487

 

Here’s a smaller stone from the same guys for more than twice the money that also would probably be visibly indistinguishable. Obviously there’s more to it, and the first part of the game is to narrow down what’s important to you.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.a...amp;filter_id=0

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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Neil, thanks for your reply....

 

"Why VVS?" I'm not sure.... to be honest w/you I would say that it's a higher quaility... but that just me talking about something I don't have a clue about.... Now can you distinguish (w/the naked eye) a VVS to SI1??? (I'm sure that answer depends on other factors)

 

"Why D/E?" Again.... I'm not sure.... it just seem that would have more "pop" but I'm sure that hinges on other factors also

 

"Is the $9k number a budget limit" yes... I can always go lower ;)

 

One poster said that they would go with Color first then Clarity?

 

Geeesh this is hard.... I might go nontraditional and get her a nice pearl LOL

 

 

hat BN calls ideal.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD01079982

 

Here’s a 1.02 D/VS2 that AGS calls ideal (which is a considerably more specific standard than the in-house definition) from your same dealer.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.a...amp;filter_id=0

 

Here’s a 1.11 E/VS2/AGS.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.a...amp;filter_id=0

 

All are in the same general price bracket, all from your chosen dealer and all look reasonably promising.

 

You still haven’t really given us your parameters. Not everyone is looking for the same things. Without this information, this exercise is useless. Several of the above posters have asked. Why VVS? Why D/E? Why Blue Nile? Is the $9k number a budget limit or just what you were expecting to have to pay to get what you want?

 

Here, for example, is a 1.53 H/SI1 that, when mounted and on a finger will probably be indistinguishable from the above other than it’s considerably bigger size.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD00943487

 

Here’s a smaller stone from the same guys for more than twice the money that also would probably be visibly indistinguishable. Obviously there’s more to it, and the first part of the game is to narrow down what’s important to you.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.a...amp;filter_id=0

 

Neil

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A correctly graded VS2 is visibly indistinguishable from an IF in every light condition. A correctly graded SI1 is indistinguishable in most light environments. A correctly graded SI2 is indistinguishable in 'normal' lighting environments.

 

For most people with normal vision, a D color is indistinguishable from an H in most lighting environments, including experienced graders. Even in standardized lighting and with a practiced eye it’s damn difficult to tell the difference between a D and an F without a comparison stone and looking at the stones upside down and under magnification.

 

The ‘pop’ has far more to do with the cutting than with either clarity or color. There’s a certain humor to being able to call it a D color because that’s the ‘best’ but otherwise I see F and even G as being entirely suitable. That's why people get prickly when a dealer just makes up a scale and calls a stone awesome, spectacular, premium ideal or whatever.

 

If you’re looking for a .90-somthing stone that is comfortably over the limit for being white, with no eye visible inclusions, with no durability concerns and with maximum firepower, you will have no problems finding something with quite a bit of change left over. If you’re looking for the best bling/dollar ratio available for $10k or less, you are likely to end up with a different purchase entirely.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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In a very well cut diamond you can easily go with a G-H VS and it will be indistinguishable from a D-E VVS in the face-up position.

 

Find your comfort level.

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I'll go a step further and bet that you could pick an SI2 that would look exactly like an Internally Flawless ( when viewed without a loupe)- if you hand picked it Barry.

 

I have the utmost respect for Neil- but I do disagree with something he wrote today....

A correctly graded VS2 is visibly indistinguishable from an IF in every light condition. A correctly graded SI1 is indistinguishable in most light environments. A correctly graded SI2 is indistinguishable in 'normal' lighting environments.

 

In my experience, you can't necessarily assume a diamond is eye clean simply because it's VS2, and correctly graded.

 

As an obvious exception, a step cut comes to mind- where even a small, VS2 sized glatz in the table might be visible. But I have seen a correctly graded VS2 round brilliant where the luck of the draw put the spot directly on a line of sight so that you could pick it up in room lighting.

The diamond was graded by GIA- and I say it was correctly graded because I louped it myself- I agree that the level of imperfection was VS2.

And I hate to say it- but the diamond was a "Killer Make"- really well cut- but that did not stop that little spot from showing itself.

Remember, GIA grades clarity based on the presence of imperfection- NOT it's visibility.

 

 

THAT"S why I'd bet that Barry, or Neil- or any competent diamond trades-person could- if given the chance to sort thru a selection of stones- look thru different SI2's and find one that, to the naked eye- would be identical to an Internally Flawless. You'd also be able to pick out the correctly graded SI2's that possess imperfcetion visible to the naked eye.

 

I've also seen eye clean I1's that required a fair amount of louping to find the imperfection- simply because it was really well hidden.

 

I'm sure we all agree that such stones should not be upgraded simply because the imperfection was hidden- the same logic dictates an VS2 who's imperfection is visible be called what it is- VS2.

 

 

Ott- see, to me, you can find a really great looking .90 for a whole lot less, and have just as nice a result.

I love D Internally Flawlesses too....but if you're going that route- spending 9K for a .90 E/VVS- you really need to eyeball a few.....

Edited by diamondsbylauren
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Lauren.... I agree....I need to "eyeball" a few....

 

Thanks everyone for the help.... Neil.... I'm upgrading to 1.0ct

 

 

I'll go a step further and bet that you could pick an SI2 that would look exactly like an Internally Flawless ( when viewed without a loupe)- if you hand picked it Barry.

 

I have the utmost respect for Neil- but I do disagree with something he wrote today....

A correctly graded VS2 is visibly indistinguishable from an IF in every light condition. A correctly graded SI1 is indistinguishable in most light environments. A correctly graded SI2 is indistinguishable in 'normal' lighting environments.

 

In my experience, you can't necessarily assume a diamond is eye clean simply because it's VS2, and correctly graded.

 

As an obvious exception, a step cut comes to mind- where even a small, VS2 sized glatz in the table might be visible. But I have seen a correctly graded VS2 round brilliant where the luck of the draw put the spot directly on a line of sight so that you could pick it up in room lighting.

The diamond was graded by GIA- and I say it was correctly graded because I louped it myself- I agree that the level of imperfection was VS2.

And I hate to say it- but the diamond was a "Killer Make"- really well cut- but that did not stop that little spot from showing itself.

Remember, GIA grades clarity based on the presence of imperfection- NOT it's visibility.

 

 

THAT"S why I'd bet that Barry, or Neil- or any competent diamond trades-person could- if given the chance to sort thru a selection of stones- look thru different SI2's and find one that, to the naked eye- would be identical to an Internally Flawless. You'd also be able to pick out the correctly graded SI2's that possess imperfcetion visible to the naked eye.

 

I've also seen eye clean I1's that required a fair amount of louping to find the imperfection- simply because it was really well hidden.

 

I'm sure we all agree that such stones should not be upgraded simply because the imperfection was hidden- the same logic dictates an VS2 who's imperfection is visible be called what it is- VS2.

 

 

Ott- see, to me, you can find a really great looking .90 for a whole lot less, and have just as nice a result.

I love D Internally Flawlesses too....but if you're going that route- spending 9K for a .90 E/VVS- you really need to eyeball a few.....

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sorry David.... my bad

 

Hey check this one out.... thoughts?

 

Stock Number AA486310

Certificate: GIA

Shape: Round

Cut: Select Idealâ„¢

Carat: 1.02

Color: E

Clarity: VVS2

Regular Price: $9864

Wire Transfer Price: $9577

 

Diamond Proportions:

Measurements: 6.51-6.48-3.98

Depth Percentage: 61.3 %

Table Percentage: 59 %

Girdle: M-STK

Culet: None (Pointed)

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Very Good

Fluorescence: None (Inert)

 

http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamo...ant-Cut-Diamond

 

 

 

COOL! Please keep us updated!

 

PS- I'm David

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Hi OTT :D Good convo in this thread.

 

The problem with trying to have others judge a diamond by numbers is that we can give limited information. With a round we can give 'predictions' but they're simply that. Do you have photos? Light performance information?

 

For example, going by the numbers on this diamond I'm not a fan of a 41.4 pavilion angle. Yes, it's coupled with a 33.5 crown angle so it may be a nice overall performer (thus the GIA EX cut grade) but the crown height is only 13.5% and I personally like more height in the crown for a greater balance of fire in the performance - but that is me and taste varies. For that matter, the pavilion could have some huge variance not shown in the basic numbers that affects performance. We just can't tell.

 

I think of it like this:

 

* Having just numbers for a stone is like getting only weight, measurements, eye & hair color for a blind date.

* A cut grade & light performance info is like a basic prediction of that date's personality.

* Seeing photos of a stone is like seeing photos of the blind date (much better).

* If the above are all promising, getting the stone in-hand is like actually GOING on the date...and only then can you be assured all is as it was advertised...and only then can you judge the character of the date, whether you love that character and whether 'she's' a keeper. The cool thing? If you've gone through all the steps and received correct data and photos it's probably a winner.

 

So with regard to the process...Finding a trusted vendor who actually has the diamond in-hand (not all do) seems absolutely critical to me. Extra proof of performance and photos are also critical. An expert who can help you find what you seek, personality-wise, is important too - whether that's a credentialed seller you trust or an independent appraiser.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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Hi Ott,

A few things strike me...not speaking of any particular offering, but offerings in general.

1) I'm leery of ANY seller using their own made up names like "Extra Special Ideal" or "Super Duper Ideal"- or any type of term claiming thier ideal cut is better than someone else's. It's hype, plain and simple. But as opposed to other arenas- like TV- where advertising is more closely controlled, internet sellers can use terms which specifically target folks who are not experts.

These type of claims are even more ridiculous when the seller is offering diamonds from a list- diamonds they've never even seen.

 

2) I think photos should be clearly labeled.

For example- if a site uses the same exact photo for every round diamond, clearly, it's not a photo of the diamond you're going to get.

My feeling is that "Sample Photos" should be clearly labeled.

 

There's enough sellers with actual diamonds, actual photos - and those that are very clear in terminology to make sure the consumer is NOT mislead.

Just my .02cents

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John.... good email.... It made me smile

 

I liken this diamond search to the time I purchased a plasma TV..... When I was looking at different models side by side you could tell a huge difference but once I got the TV home it looked perfect w/no competition around......

 

I'm thinking about going over to Shane Company and looking at diamonds...... not for purchase reasons but just to look at diamonds..... Just curious.... What is the general conscious with the Shane Company? I've seen a few bad post on this forum.

 

 

 

Hi OTT :) Good convo in this thread.

 

The problem with trying to have others judge a diamond by numbers is that we can give limited information. With a round we can give 'predictions' but they're simply that. Do you have photos? Light performance information?

 

For example, going by the numbers on this diamond I'm not a fan of a 41.4 pavilion angle. Yes, it's coupled with a 33.5 crown angle so it may be a nice overall performer (thus the GIA EX cut grade) but the crown height is only 13.5% and I personally like more height in the crown for a greater balance of fire in the performance - but that is me and taste varies. For that matter, the pavilion could have some huge variance not shown in the basic numbers that affects performance. We just can't tell.

 

I think of it like this:

 

* Having just numbers for a stone is like getting only weight, measurements, eye & hair color for a blind date.

* A cut grade & light performance info is like a basic prediction of that date's personality.

* Seeing photos of a stone is like seeing photos of the blind date (much better).

* If the above are all promising, getting the stone in-hand is like actually GOING on the date...and only then can you be assured all is as it was advertised...and only then can you judge the character of the date, whether you love that character and whether 'she's' a keeper. The cool thing? If you've gone through all the steps and received correct data and photos it's probably a winner.

 

So with regard to the process...Finding a trusted vendor who actually has the diamond in-hand (not all do) seems absolutely critical to me. Extra proof of performance and photos are also critical. An expert who can help you find what you seek, personality-wise, is important too - whether that's a credentialed seller you trust or an independent appraiser.

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John.... good email.... It made me smile

 

I liken this diamond search to the time I purchased a plasma TV..... When I was looking at different models side by side you could tell a huge difference but once I got the TV home it looked perfect w/no competition around......

 

I'm thinking about going over to Shane Company and looking at diamonds...... not for purchase reasons but just to look at diamonds..... Just curious.... What is the general conscious with the Shane Company? I've seen a few bad post on this forum.

 

Glad to make you smile. It's healthy to do that you know. Your plasma example is a good one. Just be sure you're not paying the plasma price for rear-projection :)

 

Seeing diamonds live is a great idea. When judging color and clarity judge apples-for-apples (meaning GIA vs GIA). With performance try to see different 'makes' - within the same shape; large table vs small table...deep vs shallow - and don't be shy about writing down all the info and how each diamond appeared to your eyes. Be sure to view the different makes side by side and in different lighting: Fluorescents are good for brightness but not fire. Spotlighting is good for fire. The combo is good for scintillation. Also check them out under a counter or in a dim room with indirect lighting (reflected off the walls). Diamond that aren't returning light most effectively will go dark in soft lighting. Efficient cuts will still have life.

 

You may find yourself drawn to a certain make, or you might find the well-cut ones equally attractive. Have fun, and I'd be interested to hear a report if you're inclined to give one.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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Last night I ended up leaving work early and heading over to our friends in the diamond business (aka Shane Co.).... The guy I worked with was very nice and helpful.... The first diamond he showed me was a 1.03/Round/G/VS1/$9225 the next diamond 1.00/Round/F/VS2/$7325.... The difference between the 2 is $1900 bucks..... and I could tell NO difference.....

 

So now I'm in a bit of dilemma..... I could buy a diamond that I've seen in person and pay sales tax and maybe lose some quaility (that I couldn't discern with the naked eye).... or buy online and pay NO sales tax and a get higher quality stone that I've never seen....

 

I looked @ Blue Nile today and found the same diamond (based upon the 4'cs) between $7406 - $6730.... The saving on sales tax alone is around $500 bucks

 

So here goes my pro/con list between Shane Co. & Online dealer X

 

Shane Co.

Pro's

I can see what I buy

She can get her ring cleaned for free

The replacement warranty sounds good

 

Con's

I will spend around $500 bucks in sales tax

I could get a slightly better diamond online for a cheaper price

 

Online Dealer X

Pro's

I would save $500 bucks in sales tax

I could get a slightly better diamond online for a cheaper price

 

Con's

I can't see what I buy

 

 

 

John.... good email.... It made me smile

 

I liken this diamond search to the time I purchased a plasma TV..... When I was looking at different models side by side you could tell a huge difference but once I got the TV home it looked perfect w/no competition around......

 

I'm thinking about going over to Shane Company and looking at diamonds...... not for purchase reasons but just to look at diamonds..... Just curious.... What is the general conscious with the Shane Company? I've seen a few bad post on this forum.

 

Glad to make you smile. It's healthy to do that you know. Your plasma example is a good one. Just be sure you're not paying the plasma price for rear-projection :)

 

Seeing diamonds live is a great idea. When judging color and clarity judge apples-for-apples (meaning GIA vs GIA). With performance try to see different 'makes' - within the same shape; large table vs small table...deep vs shallow - and don't be shy about writing down all the info and how each diamond appeared to your eyes. Be sure to view the different makes side by side and in different lighting: Fluorescents are good for brightness but not fire. Spotlighting is good for fire. The combo is good for scintillation. Also check them out under a counter or in a dim room with indirect lighting (reflected off the walls). Diamond that aren't returning light most effectively will go dark in soft lighting. Efficient cuts will still have life.

 

You may find yourself drawn to a certain make, or you might find the well-cut ones equally attractive. Have fun, and I'd be interested to hear a report if you're inclined to give one.

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OTT;

 

You can have your cake and eat it too. :)

 

There are on-line dealers that will call in these Virtual Diamonds for you, examine then for you, and provide you with data workups.

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