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GirlsBFF

What My Jeweler Said!!!

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Ok.. I went back to my jeweler, and I insisted on an ideal cut for my diamond. My fiance and I's budget is about $7000 and I don't think it will be easy to budge him on the budget, BUT.... My Jewler call me today and said he found an amazing stone...... Its a Princess cut daimond... It is an Ideal cut, 1.0 ct D VVSI for $9,125.... As far as street/retail value, is this a good price... Because I mean I'm getting very excited about the stone, but I don't want to fall for a salesman's sneaky techniques (consdering i'm already goo goo ga ga just over the fact that we are shopping for diamonds.) The jeweler made it sound as if it takes people a long time to look and find a stone this rare for that low of retail cost... He is ordering it for me, he said i'm not bound to any deal, and he wants us to look at it....... Is this good deal?..... Help!

 

-Cat

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That sounds pretty seriously over budget.

 

Was a D/VVS1 really what you were looking for? This comes at a pretty steep premium over, say, G/VS2, which is visibly identical to most people. Buying a D has a certain appeal to it because it’s the ‘best’ but don’t let the jeweler talk you into it if that’s not what you want. The price is probably ok but the right price on the wrong stone is no bargain.

 

Not everyone uses the term ‘ideal’ in the same way, especially with princess cuts. This term can mean very different things to different people and the variations aren't always in your best interest. Ask specifically what HE means and, if you don’t fully understand the answer, come back and tell us what he said.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I agree with Neil and i am willing to go even further I think you are making a mistake with your pick of color and clarity. I can promise you, you won't see a different between a D and F and the same with clarity you won't see a different between a VVS1 and A VS1 with the naked eye. So I would recommend you to stick with an ideal cut and if you are ready to spend $9000.00 look for a bigger stone. Except if you are from the kind of people that like to know for themselves that they have the best of the best even you can’t see a different.

 

Just trying to help.

Moshe

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What lab graded the diamond? If it wasn't AGS the 'Ideal' term may not mean much (and if it wasn't AGS or GIA the color and clarity grades may be a little inflated).

 

Moshe's advice is also sound if you're not 'married' to the idea of highest color and clarity: VS2 and above is typically eye-clean when graded by a reputable lab, and many people can't distinguish between 2 or 3 color grades.


John Pollard

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The truth is.... I'm really just looking for the diamond that is going to give me the best brilliance.. i want to shine.. i mean like blinding someone shine... heheh.... He orginally came to me with a 1.00 ct. D VS2 for a lot less... 6000 i think.. and I was told that a good clarity would give it its fire. So then I asked him to find something VVS2 or better.... The stone that I mention before though was sold... and he could not get it, but he suggested a ideal princess .... F color and VVS2... i'm going to take a look at it this weekend , he said that if would look the same as the D VVS1 , and if I really can't tell a difference between that one and the first I looked at ( D VS2) , I probably will save the 3000 and go with the D VS2

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The best brightness, fire and scintillation is determined by cut.

 

... and I was told that a good clarity would give it its fire.

This is not correct. You can do what you're comfortable with, but the advice you've received in this thread and your other is good.

Edited by JohnQuixote

John Pollard

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The best brightness, fire and scintillation is determined by cut.

 

... and I was told that a good clarity would give it its fire.

This is not correct. You can do what you're comfortable with, but the advice you've received in this thread and your other is good.

 

 

Thank you john.... i do appreciate all the feedback I'm getting... I did take that advice and told my jeweler that I would prefer a good cut most and foremost.... but a friend of mine (outside the forum) ... said that its better to go with a greater clarity than a good color.. which is why i had posted in the begining.... NOW .. I'm just confused.... putting the cut aside (because we've established that this is the most important) I've noticed that when it comes to price the clarity affects it more significantly than the color those. Why is that? and i guess thats why i assumed it was more important...... B).... sorry like i said i'm just a girl ... who loves diamonds (but doesn't know anything about them )

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Thank you john.... i do appreciate all the feedback I'm getting... I did take that advice and told my jeweler that I would prefer a good cut most and foremost.... but a friend of mine (outside the forum) ... said that its better to go with a greater clarity than a good color.. which is why i had posted in the begining.... NOW .. I'm just confused.... putting the cut aside (because we've established that this is the most important) I've noticed that when it comes to price the clarity affects it more significantly than the color those. Why is that? and i guess thats why i assumed it was more important...... B).... sorry like i said i'm just a girl ... who loves diamonds (but doesn't know anything about them )

You're not alone...and you're already learning. :)

 

Think of it this way: To your naked eye a Flawless or VVS will appear no different than a VS2 (as long as it was graded by the AGS or GIA...if you're looking at another lab's grading report the bets are off).

 

So...Once you have a VS2 level of clarity you're set...In fact, there are SI1 diamonds (AGS/GIA graded) which are completely eye-clean too, but they require some finding.

 

In short: You can drop a bit in clarity (and color) and still be perfectly 'safe' in order to secure the best cut princess. If you are considering doing this sight-unseen the best way to get high performance is to buy an AGS 'Ideal' cut princess - or, even better, work with a professional you trust to assist you.

Edited by JohnQuixote

John Pollard

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The better the cut of the stone, the whiter and cleaner it will face up.

 

You can therefore comfortably consider a H/SI combination and it should be indistinguishable from a higher graded color/clarity combination of the same cut quality.

 

Try to have your jeweler show you several diamonds of the same cut quality that differ on color/clarity combinations.

 

See if you can tell the difference.

Edited by barry

Barry
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You’ll notice a lot of concern over whether a diamond is ‘eye clean’, meaning can you see the imperfections without magnification. Even though this is of great interest to diamond consumers, it’s not part of the way diamonds are graded. Why not? The problem is that this definition has far too many components like the condition of the light, the details of the viewing environment and the quality of your eyesight to have any real meaning. Abuse of this term is rampant. That said, under careful inspection most people with relatively typical eyesight and viewing correctly graded stones in relatively typical viewing conditions find the line of what is visible without tools to be at about SI2/I1. You’ll notice that stones below this line are offered at drastically lower prices and it leads to lots of folks deciding that where they want to be is just barely above it. For some people and for some stones, this logic leads them towards SI2 & SI1. In rare cases, especially for bigger stones, it gets into VS2. Above that is done for symbolic reasons.

 

This means that, for most people with most stones and under most conditions, SI2 is visibly identical to IF. That’s ¾ of the scale and the prices for otherwise similar stones can vary by a factor of 4 or more! Of course it’s confusing.

 

I agree with the above advisors, if you want the most bling for your buck, drop the clarity, drop the color and ring the bell on cutting. Then prepare to blow the socks off of your expert friend when your diamond interferes with air traffic.

 

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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hey, i went through the same thing you're going through over the last month and 1/2. take these guys advise and input, b/c they know it all and they can really help you.

 

i just bought a stone myself just last week. it was AGS certified (the only lab that actually grades the cut, with the other, they might say its ideal, but it might not actually be "ideal."

 

i dropped in color (settled for an H), and dropped clarity to SI1, but the cut was AGS certified "ideal" (the 3 zeros) being light performance, proportion factors, and finish all "graded zero's which for AGS means ideal with polish and symetry being ideal as well. the color looks white and has a lot of "sparkle." the clarity had 2 spots: 1 being in the corner of the stone which is good because it is "hidden" by the setting and 2, it had a couple of very small pinpoints (i could not see them with the 10x loupe, but i caould with the 40x loupe.

 

i guess what i'm trying to say, if you want a certified princess cut where the cut is actually graded, go with AGS. You may pay alittle more, but you'll know that the cut is the way you want it.

 

i went through this for a long time and the stone just "popped up."

 

and to me, and most others, the cut is the most important....and guys, if i'm wrong here, please correct me (i'm still a newbie) :)

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What lab graded the diamond? If it wasn't AGS the 'Ideal' term may not mean much (and if it wasn't AGS or GIA the color and clarity grades may be a little inflated).

 

Moshe's advice is also sound if you're not 'married' to the idea of highest color and clarity: VS2 and above is typically eye-clean when graded by a reputable lab, and many people can't distinguish between 2 or 3 color grades.

 

 

John - Are you saying GIA 'ideal' isn't as meaningful as AGS graded 'ideal'? (or, even worse, is meaningless in comparison?).

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What lab graded the diamond? If it wasn't AGS the 'Ideal' term may not mean much (and if it wasn't AGS or GIA the color and clarity grades may be a little inflated).

 

Moshe's advice is also sound if you're not 'married' to the idea of highest color and clarity: VS2 and above is typically eye-clean when graded by a reputable lab, and many people can't distinguish between 2 or 3 color grades.

 

 

John - Are you saying GIA 'ideal' isn't as meaningful as AGS graded 'ideal'? (or, even worse, is meaningless in comparison?).

 

GIA doesn't use the term ideal. Their highest grade is 'Excellent.' If someone is assigning 'ideal' to a GIA graded diamond it is their own interpretation.


John Pollard

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I may not have given a thorough answer above:

 

GIA and AGS are the preeminent major labs. If we're talking about polish and symmetry grades GIA EX and AGS Ideal are commensurate to the naked eye (in fact, testing has shown that people can't distinguish between VG, EX and Ideal).

 

In terms of overall cut the GIA grade is proportions-based (like the old 1996 AGS proportions system, but using more data). Since 2005 the AGS has been grading light performance by scanning/ray-tracing each diamond submitted. To earn the Ideal light performance grade a diamond must acquire high enough numerical values in the different performance qualities that are measured. As Dragonfire mentioned, this system allows the AGS to grade cut for round brilliant and princess shapes, with emerald cuts forthcoming. GIA's cut grading is for round brilliants only.

 

Both top grades (GIA EX and AGS Ideal) are positive performance indicators. The AGS top grade is stricter than GIA's, both in terms of performance criteria and the fact that AGS requires a diamond to have ideal polish and symmetry to earn their overall Ideal cut grade, whereas GIA allows VG and EX polish and symmetry to qualify for their top grade of Excellent. As mentioned, there is no visible difference between VG, EX and Ideal p/s; AGS considers this a matter of cut craftsmanship and is strict in that regard.

Edited by JohnQuixote

John Pollard

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