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Interesting D-if .71 Rd Valuation


Jay Johnson
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I've run across an interesting valuaton for a stone and I wanted to see what

the more experienced members think of it, and the folks in business also.

 

Here's the details that I have:

GIA grading report dated May 3, 2007

Carat weight: 0.71

Cut: Very Good

Color: D

Clarity: IF

Depth %: 58.1%

Table %: 60%

Symmetry: Good

Polish: Very good

Girdle: Very thin to thin, faceted

Culet: None

Fluorescence: Medium blue

Measurements: 5.86 x 5.91 x 3.42 mm

 

I have not seen the stone yet. It is from a reputable and large, online dealer.

They are listed in the diamond search, if that lends to the dealer reputability.

I've searched other online pricing with very similar grading specifications

and they are all significantly higher, even when comparing to stones of 1 lower

color and clarity grade and even the few with medium blue fluorescence.

 

I was quoted $2619 for this diamond.

Can there truly be incredible deals from the big online dealers?

 

I'm thinking this is a screaming deal for a diamond whith these characteristics,

and I'm only looking to buy upper-end color and clarity stones.

So, I'm asking is this deal "Too good to be true". Or is this simply not a

good deal?

 

 

Jay Johnson

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I would like to see Crown/Pavillion angles on this one. Ask for a sarin or megascope analysis.

 

Picture(s) of the very thin area would be most helpful. Ask for it.

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It will be interesting to hear if that price holds up.

 

I'd recommend caution on the girdle as well: If it's very thin in several places or one wide section, it's a durability risk.

 

The problem is that the grading report gives limited information. It's also possible that the girdle average is only a micron shy of medium, and there is a single microscopic position that ranges down to very thin. For instance, the princess girdle below is reported as 'very thin - medium' since the indented natural creates one 'very thin' spot (not a cause for concern). In fact, if the natural passed all the way through the girdle it would be described as 'medium.'

 

I'm inclined to think it's the former, since the range spans only v thin - thin. :rolleyes: Either way, it's not a judgment that can be made 'blind.' If you're interested in the diamond it bears further analysis.

post-111809-1179255394_thumb.jpg

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The price is right.

 

What remains to be determined is if the stone is right. I think it’s worth your effort to call it in and take a peek. GIA D/IF is a tough thing to find cheaply, even if there are some other issues at play, which there probably are. I would snatch it up and set an immediate appointment with a pro to inspect it and tell you 'the rest of the story'. There probably is something going on here, but it may be entirely acceptable to you. If it’s being offered from a credible dealer, this won’t last long. Snatch it up quickly or you’ll lose your chance.

 

Neil

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D/IF's don't grow on trees, and if the price is too good to be true, which this is, there is probably a good reason.

 

IMO, I would find out what that reason is before I put my hard-earned money down on the counter.

 

You say that this is listed by a reputable on-line dealer. See if they will (can) provide you with more info before you commit.

 

Cut analysis provided by either Sarin or Megascope and photos, especially of the thin area(s) of the girdle.

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Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report Date of Issue: May 03, 2007

 

Round Brilliant

 

Measurements: 5.86 - 5.91 x 3.42 mm

 

Carat Weight: 0.71

 

Color Grade: D

 

Clarity Grade: IF

 

Cut Grade: Very Good

 

Proportions: Depth: 58.1 %

 

Table: 60 %

 

Crown Angle: 31.5°

 

Crown Height: 12 %

 

Pavilion Angle: 41°

 

Pavilion Depth: 43 %

 

Star length: 60 %

 

Lower Half: 75 %

 

Girdle: Very Thin to Thin, Faceted

 

Culet: None

 

Finish:

 

Polish: Very Good

 

Symmetry: Good

 

Fluorescence: Medium Blue

 

 

 

Comments: Minor details of polish are not shown.

 

Is there anything *BAD* in the proportions?

So far, I think the board concensus is "buy", on the blind B)

There is a 30day return policy also. I have the stone reserved and will make the call tomorrow, unless new information is presented. I could swear this is a mistake in pricing, but I talked to a rep on the phone and confirmed the price and put it on reserve for 48hours. It has been removed from their search list.

I've bought 1 other diamond from them, another D-IF(GIA) that l am pleased with.

 

Thanks for everyones input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

 

Jay Johnson

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Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report Date of Issue: May 03, 2007

 

Round Brilliant

 

Measurements: 5.86 - 5.91 x 3.42 mm

Carat Weight: 0.71

Color Grade: D

Clarity Grade: IF

Cut Grade: Very Good

Proportions: Depth: 58.1 %

Table: 60 %

Crown Angle: 31.5°

Crown Height: 12 %

Pavilion Angle: 41°

Pavilion Depth: 43 %

Star length: 60 %

Lower Half: 75 %

Girdle: Very Thin to Thin, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Very Good

Symmetry: Good

Fluorescence: Medium Blue

 

Comments: Minor details of polish are not shown.

 

Is there anything *BAD* in the proportions?

So far, I think the board concensus is "buy", on the blind B)

There is a 30day return policy also. I have the stone reserved and will make the call tomorrow, unless new information is presented. I could swear this is a mistake in pricing, but I talked to a rep on the phone and confirmed the price and put it on reserve for 48hours. It has been removed from their search list.

I've bought 1 other diamond from them, another D-IF(GIA) that l am pleased with.

 

Thanks for everyones input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Jay Johnson

 

Jay,

 

That info helps. The crown angle puts the very thin-thin girdle at more risk of chipping. In trade terms 31.5 is 'slightly shallow' but it would be safer with a thicker girdle. This makes it even more important that an expert analyze the diamond to see how thin - and how very thin - the girdle actually is. Remember that a chip immediately disqualifies it from IF clarity.

 

If you go forward with the purchase I'd recommend you have it bezel set, to provide maximum protection for the vulnerable crown angle/girdle combo.

 

With that table size and depth I'd expect to see 80 or 85% lower halves. That's an element of taste, not overall performance but it's interesting to see 75% for this configuration. I anticipate it will be a spready and bright performer. This is only predictive; based on the numbers of course. It must actually be seen for a decisive judgment.

 

As was said, this color and clarity combo doesn't grow on trees. Seems worth a spin if you can protect that girdle. I'd suggest you have a qualified independent expert assist you for a decisive evaluation.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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I had DiamCalc open so, for fun, here are simulated wire-frame profiles of the diamond you're considering next to a conventional 'Tolkowsky' model. You can get a general feel for the differences in crown/girdle relationships.

 

This is for illustration only: The software assumes perfect wire-frames (not possible in nature). The actual diamond will vary.

post-111809-1179293217_thumb.jpg

Edited by JohnQuixote
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I called the company to buy this stone I reserved yesterday. The company is Blue Nile.

When I called, I spoke to the same rep that reserved the stone. She said that she was glad

that I called because she didn't have my number. That's already shady, because I gave it to

her yesterday when I reserved the stone. It was part of the information that I was asked for

to reserve the stone.

 

She said that the diamond was already sold. I asked how it could have been sold when I

had it reserved yesterday. She said that the computer didn't update. This is again shady,

because I saw the stone yesterday on their list of available stones in my search and then

called. Then when I reserved the stone over the phone she said that the stone will now be

removed from the list.

I confirmed this on their website, and was only able to find the stone by the item number.

The stone is flagged as not available due to it now being reserved.

The list of available stones was updated in the few seconds that it took for me to perform

another search. "Computers not updating" is contrary to what I observed both before and

after the reservation.

 

The rep then went on to say that the diamond was mispriced. Again shady, so she was

telling me that the diamond was sold AND it was mispriced AND the computers were not

updated. When I confirmed that the diamond was reserved and the computers were

updated yesterday, the diamond wasn't sold. When the stone was reserved, the first

thing she did was check if it's available. Strange that it's sold AFTER I reserved it.

 

I do not feel comfortable with these events, nor I was comfortable with the numerous

things that rep told me, including different reasons that the diamond that I reserved was

now unavailable.

 

I would have appreciated just the plain truth, not multiple(seemingly spurious)excuses.

 

I cannot say that I have confidence in buying from Blue Nile with their response to this

issue, and I'm a former customer.

 

I started this post asking for the opinions of the board members, now I ask the opinion

concerning this last post. Is there something fishy? and I out of line?

 

 

Jay Johnson

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Jay;

 

Welcome to the world of "Virtual Diamonds" (VD)!

 

Blue Nile, as well as many other diamond Internet websites work off diamond lists that are supplied to them by Manufacturers and Wholesalers through direct data (FTP or other) feeds. These diamonds are not in house at Blue Nile but physically reside at the Manufacturer location. When you place an order it is transmitted by Blue Nile directly to the Manufacturer who then ships it directly to you with a BlueNile Invoice. BlueNile never "sees" the diamond and can not comment on it's characteristics or provide you with any information above and beyond that supplied to them by the Manufacturer, which in 99.99% of the time is limited to a scan of the lab grading report. No photos (which in your case with the very thin girdle would have been a minimum requirement of info, IMO), no Cut Quality analysis like Sarin or Megascope, and no light performance data like Brilliancescope spectrophotometry (www.gemex.com)or Idealscope images showing extent and areas of light leakage from the diamond.

 

Diamond availabilities, pricing, and updates are at the discretion and in the control of the Manufacturer not BlueNile. Your BN Customer rep was no doubt reporting to you real time up to the minute "facts" as she saw them on her system as updated or not directly updated by her Manufacturer/Wholesaler source.

 

Even though you "reserved" this stone, any number of possibilities on this D/IF diamond exist:

 

1. Diamond was sold by the Manufacturer through another venue and they did not update their listings fast enough. This happens all the time. Updates can vary from a few hours to 48-72 hours.

 

2. Diamond was erroneously priced and "pulled" for re-pricing. Again D/IF's are rare and even though the cut quality of this diamond was not optimal or "Ideal" as commented above by our several Forum tradespeople, the price did appear to be too good to be true.

 

3. Diamond was on memorandum (consignment) to another Jewler but not actually sold. When the Manufacturer called said jeweler to notify that he needs the diamond back because it has been sold (to you), Jeweler said

"Bill Me". Poof, diamond is off the market and you're out of the picture.

 

Bottom line is this: If you're keen on buying a diamond on the Internet work with a reputable Vendor that will call in the diamond for personal inspection and provide you with a complete data analysis work up so that you can make an informed decision before you put your hard-earned money down on the table. Some will counter that this is not necessary if the Vendor has a good Return Policy. Return Policies are wonderful but why go through the hassle and expense of returning when you can get information up front.

 

In any event, Jay, Good Luck in your continued search and let us know if we can be of further assistance.

Edited by barry
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I can’t agree with Barry more, as we all wrote before the price was to low to be true. Remember always ask for a picture of the diamond, that way you know they have the diamond in there hand, and you get better detailed answers to your questions.

Moshe

 

I'm not sure this is true any more, and it's getting less so all the time. The bottom line consignors, meaning whoever it is that actually has the stone, can and do occasionaly provide pictures as part of their data stream. I expect this to continue and to grow as it becomes more and more important for their customers to make a sale. Rather than just listing a few stats they can include scans of the certs, Sarin reports, photographs, reflector images, 3d models and the like. The fact that a particular seller has access to this sort of information is becoming less and less of a clue that they have physical posession of the stone.

 

Neil

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