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Suggestions...please!!!!


mgs1103
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I've been shooping for a diamond for "the big question" and have not found exactly what I want.

 

My first question:

The online buisiness is Abazias.com. Does anyone know anything about this seller?

 

Second question: Opinions on this diamond?

 

1.50ct. Princess Diamond Cash Price: $6,572.48 Credit Card Price: $6,723.64

Average Retail Price: $9,026.02 (You Save: 26%) This GIA certified stone is a beautiful Princess cut, 1.5 carat weight, H in color, VS1 clarity. And, of course, all of our diamonds are backed by our 100% quality guarantee.

 

Carat Weight: 1.50 Color: H Clarity: VS1 Depth%: 78.5 Table %: 78 Symmetry: G Polish: VG Girdle: - Culet: N Fluorescence: F Measurements: 6.07x5.90x4.68 Cut Grade: Very Good

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Numbers tell you absolutely nothing.

 

Ask this Vendor to supply you with pictures, an Idealscope, and some measurement of light performance

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Abazias is a big Internet diamond house that brokers stones on behalf of dozens of suppliers for a small commission. They are a reputable company for what they do.

 

If you buy something from them, they will arrange to have the supplier send you a stone, give you an opportunity to look at it, get it appraised, show it to your friends and whatever you want before you have to lock into it. In some sense this is nice because it’s fairly low pressure sales and you get to look at it in a variety of different circumstances. I think you have about 30 days for each round of this but check the fine print in the selling terms to be sure. Unless you’ve got a huge limit on your credit card, it’s hard to look at more than one stone at once this way and you really can’t tell much about each one before you get it so that there’s a decent chance each time that you will end up deciding that this isn’t the right one and need to return it for another. It depends on how picky you are. As Barry points out, reading the lab report tells you very little, especially with non-round shapes. Their opinion of the average price that might be charged by their competitors is both unreliable and entirely irrelevant.

 

This whole version shopping process a bit frustrating and sometimes time consuming but it does offer attractive prices and there are lots of people who do find it worth the trouble. The shipping and appraisal fees can add up if you’re not careful but almost always this approach results in saving money in the end.

 

Neil

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Well, I have a bit of news to report. I received this email from abazius.com. It reads like this:

 

"Hello Mark,

 

Thank you for your recent requests with me for several Princess diamonds. Of all the ones you requested, this is the only one I can recommend: http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=34916104 The certificate is attached to my next email. We do not have pictures or Idealscopes for our diamonds, but I am here to make sure you get exactly the diamond you want.

 

First, this is a GIA-graded diamond, so the color and clarity are both accurate. Some of the diamonds you selected were EGL. EGL grading is not as strict as GIA, so you are losing at least one grade in both color and clarity with EGL.

 

You need to also pay attention to the length to width ratio of the stone. At least one of the diamonds you requested was very rectangular. If you divide the first measurement by the second measurement, it will give you the length to width ratio. If it is 1.05 or less, you have a square diamond.

 

Several of the diamonds you requested had depth and table angles (cut) that were very far away from the Ideal range. You need to have both the depth and table in the high 60's to mid 70's for the maximum amount of brilliance and sparkle. Most people like the look of the diamonds where both the depth and table angles are fairly close together.

 

So, this is why I only feel comfortable about 34916104 from your list. There are plenty of others on our site that fall into this range, but they are going to generally be a little more expensive than ones with less desirable characteristics.

 

I'm here to help you find your perfect diamond and ring, so please give me a call or email back if you would like to look at some more choices or select one for your 10 day evaluation period!"

 

So, he was not able to provide the ideal scopes or the pictures, but he looked through all the requests I asked for and recommemded the best one in the group. Obviously, I still have a bit to learn, but I understand what he was saying. Other than this website, I have only looked in family owned buisnesses here that have been around 50+ years. Their stores are very nice, not just thrown together and they have been very helpful explaining things and getting diamonds in every few days to look at. They have taken a lot of time with me. The only problem is, prices. They have been very high priced, which I was expecting and they all state that the prices can go no lower. I plan on paying cash if I can buy here, in person. I would like to pay cash period because are usually lower, how does a cashier's check/money order sound and since this is a reputable online dealer, would it be safe to pay this way?

The diamond he picked "sounds" very nice...but, I need to see it first of course.

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Congratulations on finding an advisor that you trust. That really is the first step in the shopping process. I've not observed that depth and table measurements in isolation aren't all that useful for evaluating the cutting on princesses and they certainly aren't enough to relate it to what I would call ideal (I use the AGS definitions) but perhaps he uses that word differently. Many people do.

 

I’m a pretty big fan of using credit cards unless you have direct personal experience with the vendor and sometimes even then. For starters, most of the CC companies have fraud protection programs in place so that if the whole thing turns out to be a scam you are protected. It also provides an easy avenue for the refund if you need to get one. Some will even include a limited amount of insurance on your new purchase. Most CC companies charge a fee of about 2% and many of the online merchants pass this fee on to you so it’s not a free service but, personally, I think it’s a good value if this is your first purchase with the dealer. Call me a cynic.

 

Ask the customer service rep what their policy is on taking your check, bank check, wire, or other payment options are available. 'Cash' usually includes several options and not every company has the same offerings.

 

Neil

Edited by denverappraiser
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How does this vendor know that this diamond is very nice if they have not actually seen it and called it in from the manufacturer for a work up?

 

Drop shipping diamonds from a Virtual listing supplied to the on-line Vendor by the Manufacturer is easy but is not the optimal way to buy.

 

"Square" Princess cuts with Table and depth percentages in the mid 60's and 70's are no guarantee of a face up sparkly and brilliant stone.

 

In Fancy shapes, even more so than in round brilliant diamonds, "numbers" are not predictive of visual beauty.

Edited by barry
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thanks for the help guys...i really appreciate it. what are considered good depth % and table%? I've noticed that some diamonds I'm looking at has this and some don't.

 

And just asking opinions, if you had to choose to drop a grade...would you drop color or clarity? To me...and my girlfriend, the cut is the most important. i want to make sure I have this right...the order is (best to worst) ideal, premium, very good, good, excellent?

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In a beautifully cut diamond, you can drop on the clarity as the increased refraction of light up through the Table and Crown facets to your eye will mask the ability to see inclusions.

 

Si1 and Si2 can look eye clean.

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Table% and Depth% are not reasonable metrics to judge the cut of a diamond. It’s like shopping for a car and choosing from a list that’s limited to color, tire size, engine displacement and year of manufacture. It’s not that these things are irrelevant, they’re just not sufficient to make the decision at hand.

 

This is a key point of disagreement amongst dealers, especially the ones who are selling things that they can’t see. They don’t have anything else to go on so they want you to buy based on what they can tell you. Lots of fast cars seem to be red. You want a fast car, they can get red ones so they want to talk about color. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 

The only generally agreed definition of ‘ideal’ with princess cuts is from AGS. Few people use it because it’s so complicated and because it’s so difficult a standard for the cutters to meet. It causes AGS-Ideal stones to cost more than other stones with similar weight/clarity/color. The result is dealers and other labs tend to invent their own scales. ‘Ideal’ can be the name of the top grade, the bottom grade or lots of them. It might cover the top 1% of the stones or it might be the top 80%. It might be better than ‘awesome’, it might be worse. Without understanding the scale, you know nothing.

 

If you want an AGS-ideal princess, the way to get one is to buy a stone graded by AGS lab.

 

Neil

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  • 2 weeks later...

So, I've looked at many diamonds in the past couple of weeks and I have sort of narrowed it down to 2 stones so far.

 

1.) AGS CERT. 1.24, H, SI1, "Ideal" cut, "Ideal" Polish and sym. I will see this one Friday sometime. Diamond price: $5985

 

2.) EGL CERT, 1.25, H, VS1, "Very Good" cut, polish, and sym., 1.40 LxW ratio. I saw this one today and it was very, very nice. Diamond price: $6250. I looked at it through a 40x scope and saw several pinpoint dots on the stone. I was also able to compare the color with other stones they use to determine color, i put on the magnifying goggles and looked at it under florescent light...it looked very nice.

 

I'll see the AGS this Friday, so I'll know more then. I didn't get the LxW ratio on the AGS, I was in the middle of something and I didnt ask, so when I find out...that will probably be the "defining moment" so to speak.

 

Any opinions on these?

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So, I've looked at many diamonds in the past couple of weeks and I have sort of narrowed it down to 2 stones so far.

 

1.) AGS CERT. 1.24, H, SI1, "Ideal" cut, "Ideal" Polish and sym. I will see this one Friday sometime. Diamond price: $5985

 

2.) EGL CERT, 1.25, H, VS1, "Very Good" cut, polish, and sym., 1.40 LxW ratio. I saw this one today and it was very, very nice. Diamond price: $6250. I looked at it through a 40x scope and saw several pinpoint dots on the stone. I was also able to compare the color with other stones they use to determine color, i put on the magnifying goggles and looked at it under florescent light...it looked very nice.

 

I'll see the AGS this Friday, so I'll know more then. I didn't get the LxW ratio on the AGS, I was in the middle of something and I didnt ask, so when I find out...that will probably be the "defining moment" so to speak.

 

Any opinions on these?

 

Ok, the guy with the AGS stone called back with the LxW: 5.95x5.86=1.015.....wow

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It sounds like you're narrowing things down.

 

For those of us giving sight-unseen input the AGS "Ideal" cut grade is a meaningful performance indicator. Princess cuts with paper from other labs can perform well too, but there is no way to know based on just the numbers, as the others have thoroughly explained.

 

Will it be possible for you to compare the AGS Ideal Cut Princess to the EGL you find nice? AGS is considered more strict and this would be a great 'live' opportunity to compare color and cut quality, to see an AGS SI1 next to this EGL VS2 and decide which lxw ratio appeals to you. View them side by side in several lighting conditions. At the end of the day your eyes are the best judge of what's most suited to your tastes.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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I'm not sure I'll be able to compare b/c the stone are from 2 different jewelers. The best I could do is see the EGL again today or tomorrow, then immediately go view the other stone.

 

I'm really excited about the AGS b/c of the sound of getting an "Ideal" cut diamond, but we'll see when I get to view the stone. I have to admit that I am a bit skeptical about this stone for some reason...I don't know what that reason is, but it's there. I guess it like the saying, "don't believe it til you see it" type thing.

 

The LxW ratio is better on the AGS is better than the EGL (1.01 compared to 1.04) as well.

 

Of course I'll know more after Friday.

 

Do the prices for these stones seem like a good deal?

EGL $6250.00

 

AGS $5985.00

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A ‘good deal’ depends on the pedigree of the diamond, the market in which you’re making the purchase and the short and long-term benefits offered with it: A diamond selling at Cartier with a generous trade-up policy costs more than the same make in a family-owned store with limited terms, and goes for even less when available through an internet 'drop-shipper' with no future options.

 

EGL-graded stones of the size, color and clarity you listed can be found for substantially less through internet sellers. The problem there - unless they have the diamond in-house - is that you’re at the same disadvantage as initially outlined in the thread. There is no way to judge cut quality, which is most important, unless the seller will bring it in to analyze it. As has also been mentioned, EGL is not known for the strictness of AGS and GIA, so an EGL H VS1 may be turn out to be an I VS2 (etc) if sent to a stricter lab. Always compare apples to apples.

 

The AGS diamond is offered at a much more competitive rate, given its pedigree; not nearly as marked-up as the EGL. It’s a bit more $ than it might go for through a good internet seller (one with diamonds already in-house who offers future options) but AGS Ideal Princess cuts are difficult to manufacture because of the strict requirements, so not many are available and dealers can command a bit of a premium. Be sure it meets your requirements for being an 'eye-clean' SI1, if that is important to you.

 

Live comparisons should be possible. In fact, I suggest anyone you purchase from should stand behind the diamond in the short-term and long-term. It should not be unreasonable for you to request a short inspection period (24 or 48 hours at least) where you can return the diamond in original condition for a 100% refund. That way you can take it on a little ‘tour de bling’ to compare it to others side-by-side in the same setting/lighting conditions. You may also choose to have it examined by an independent appraiser during that time (someone who does not sell jewelry). Confirming what your eyes like and feeling comfortable with your decision are important in the short-term. As for the long-term; inquire about future trade-up options, guarantees, and other purchase benefits.

 

This is why I suggest that a ‘good deal’ is finding the right diamond at a competitive price, both for its pedigree and for the array of short & long term benefits that accompany it.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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I'm not sure I'll be able to compare b/c the stone are from 2 different jewelers. The best I could do is see the EGL again today or tomorrow, then immediately go view the other stone.

 

I'm really excited about the AGS b/c of the sound of getting an "Ideal" cut diamond, but we'll see when I get to view the stone. I have to admit that I am a bit skeptical about this stone for some reason...I don't know what that reason is, but it's there. I guess it like the saying, "don't believe it til you see it" type thing.

 

The LxW ratio is better on the AGS is better than the EGL (1.01 compared to 1.04) as well.

 

Of course I'll know more after Friday.

 

Do the prices for these stones seem like a good deal?

EGL $6250.00

 

AGS $5985.00

 

The reason i am leaning towards the AGS before looking at the specs is as i always tell my customers in a later time when you will want to upgrade your diamond an EGL will sell for much cheaper and less people will offer you to purchase it then an GIA or AGS.

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Well, I found the one. It is absolutely beautiful, the fire, the brilliance, the "sparkle", the cut...just amazing. AGS gave the stone an SI1, the only inclusion was in the top left corner, which will be hidden by the setting. I couldn't see it with a 10x loupe, only with a 40x...anyways, here is the copy of the cert..

 

 

AGS.jpg

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Well, I found the one. It is absolutely beautiful, the fire, the brilliance, the "sparkle", the cut...just amazing. AGS gave the stone an SI1, the only inclusion was in the top left corner, which will be hidden by the setting. I couldn't see it with a 10x loupe, only with a 40x...anyways, here is the copy of the cert..

 

Congrats! Sounds beautiful.

Edited by JohnQuixote
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  • 1 month later...

well, here are the pics. i finally was able to get around to this...and thanks to everyone that helped out and guided me in my "quest." she loves it by the way and sge said yes, so here it is...sorry for the big pics, i'm not sure how to down size them...

 

untitled.jpguntitled1.jpg

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