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diamond deals-which one?


shoppingfreak02
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i'm trying to understand all this 4c's - i'm still a little bit confused....

 

i want to buy a loose round diamond and 'm wondering which one of these two is a better deal with better quarlity or ARE THESE SOME DECENT DEALS at all?

 

I think that the #1 is better deal with some better quality, but then it's depth is deeper than the other one - maybe .07% deeper isn't too bad, right?

 

 

1) ROUND .70 F VS1 Diamond

Cut: Good

Report Type: GIA

Report No.: 15108507

Measurements: 3.61x5.41x5.49

Table: 62%

Depth: 66.2%

Polish: GOOD

Symmetry: GOOD

Girdle: THICK-EXTREMELY THICK

Fluorescence: NONE

Culet: NONE

 

OR

 

2) ROUND .70 G VS2 Diamond

Cut: Good

Report Type: GIA

Report No.: 15108507

Measurements: 3.61x5.41x5.49

Table: 57%

Depth: 59.2%

Polish: VERY GOOD

Symmetry: VERY GOOD

Girdle: THIN-SLIGHTLY THICK

Fluorescence: MEDIUM

Culet: NONE

 

i'd appreciate if someone could give me some advices asap!

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Read up on the 4th C – Cut. It’s always the one that trips people up. Here's the specs on stone #1 directly from GIA.

 

You’ve got several things that I would call red flag issues.

62% table is bit big

33 ° crown angle is tad shallow

42.6 ° pavilion angle is big.

Extremely thick girdle is a bad sign

Symmetry of Good (as opposed to very good or excellent)

The face is the more like the size of a 0.60 than a 0.70 ct.

Cut grade of FAIR usually means bad.

 

I would pass on this one.

 

Stone #2 you gave the same report # and dimensions. Check the sellers advertisement again.

 

Note: You can look up any stone graded by GIA after 1/1/05 on http://reportcheck.gia.edu if the dealer neglected to include any of the important information.

 

Neil

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THANK YOU, NEIL,

 

sorry about the wrong info for #2

 

this is the correct one from the reportcheck:

 

Measurements: 5.41 - 5.49 x 3.61 mm

 

Carat Weight: 0.70

 

Color Grade: F

 

Clarity Grade: VS1

 

Cut Grade: Fair

 

Proportions:

 

Depth: 66.2 %

 

Table: 62 %

 

Crown Angle: 33°

 

Crown Height: 12.5 %

 

Pavilion Angle: 42.6°

 

Pavilion Depth: 45.5 %

 

Star length: 55 %

 

Lower Half: 85 %

 

Girdle: Thick to Extremely Thick, L

 

Culet: Very Small

 

Finish:

 

Polish: Good

 

Symmetry: Good

 

Fluorescence: None

 

 

I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT http://reportcheck.gia.edu INFO.

 

QUSTIONS:

 

WHAT IS THE IDEAL rates for the following info and what do they mean:

 

MEASUREMENTS

 

DEPTH

 

GIRDLE

 

Crown Angle

 

Crown Height

 

Pavilion Angle

 

Pavilion Depth

 

Star length

 

Lower Half

 

NEIL, HOW DID YOU CACULATE TO GET THESE INFO:

The face is the more like the size of a 0.60 than a 0.70 ct.

 

YOUR REPLY HAS BEEN A GREAT HELP FOR ME.......THANK YOU SO MUCH

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That's still the info from stone #1. :(

 

'Ideal' is a fairly abused term and it's worth some reading to understand how different people use it. There isn't a demonstrably correct answer to your question. That would make this all too easy. Another educational link at GIA is http://facetware.gia.edu. It'll give you a chart where you can play with different variations of the numbers and see how they come out in their proportion scale. They're a bit more interactive than to have a stand alone set of parameters for each one. I don't actually remember how complete the tutorial here is on cut grading but give it a look through the link at the top of the page.

 

I just happen to know how big a 0.70 is. I guess that's a sign of a misspent youth but there are charts for this on a variety of different sites so you don't need to waste your memory on this if you don't want to. A thumbnail number is that the cube root of the weight/0.0037 should approximate the average diameter in mm.

 

Neil

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i'm so sorry Neil,

 

report# for #2: 15440856

 

Round Brilliant

 

Measurements: 5.80 - 5.85 x 3.49 mm

 

Carat Weight: 0.72

 

Color Grade: G

 

Clarity Grade: VS2

 

Cut Grade: Good

 

Proportions:

 

Depth: 59.9 %

 

Table: 57 %

 

Crown Angle: 33°

 

Crown Height: 14 %

 

Pavilion Angle: 40.2°

 

Pavilion Depth: 42.5 %

 

Star length: 60 %

 

Lower Half: 80 %

 

Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted

 

Culet: None

 

Finish:

 

Polish: Good

 

Symmetry: Very Good

 

Fluorescence: Medium Blue

 

Clarity Characteristics: Cloud, Knot, Feather

 

QUESTIONS:

 

WHAT ARE THESE: Crown Angle: 33°

 

Crown Height: 14 %

 

Pavilion Angle: 40.2°

 

Pavilion Depth: 42.5 %

 

Star length: 60 %

 

Lower Half: 80 %

 

ARE THEY = MEASUREMENTS..LIKE: 5.8X5.85X3.49?

 

NEIL, BEAR ME, I'M TOTALLY NEW TO THIS DIAMOND THING - CAN YOU EXPLAINT TO ME ON THIS ONE: "A thumbnail number is that the cube root of the weight/0.0037 should approximate the average diameter in mm."

 

I FEEL SO.....:(:blink:

 

 

AND DOES the fire, and vice versa MEAN?

The bigger the table percentage, the greater the brilliance and the lesser the fire, and vice versa. The ideal table percentage strikes a perfect balance??????

 

"This is the most important metric for maximum brilliance. Diamonds that have too small or too large depth percentages will be too deep or too shallow, and will have shadows when observed from the top."

 

DOES IT MEAN THAT IF THE DEPTH IS AROUND 40-6O% IT'S GOOD?

 

I SHOULD STOP WITH QUESTIONS, BEFORE I DRY YOU NUTS.....;)

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I like the second one better.

 

You need to read up on some of the tutorials. It’s a violation of the forum rules and my own rules about the appearance of a conflict of interest for me to post you links but many of the best ones are associated with the big dealers’ sites. Use the ‘find online jeweler’ database to find some dealers who advertise here and read through the forum questions and answers and find people who appear to be dealers and who seem to think like you do. They usually have links to their websites in the footer of their posts.

 

Note regarding tutorials: Everyone (including me) has an agenda. This is not such a bad thing but bear in mind that they are trying to sell you something and they want to underscore what makes their product or service better than their various competitors. They often overlook or discount details that don't support their cause and include things that others consider irrelevaont or just plain wrong. Keep your BS filter tuned. 'Free' education has it's problems.

 

Don’t sweat the math involved in calculating the diameter for a particular weight but if you take the weight in carats and divide by 0.0037 you’ll get a number in the low hundreds. This will be the cube of the average diameter. If you don’t have a calculator to work out cube roots, you can do it in excel with the formula ‘=POWER(num,1/3)’. If this doesn’t make sense or you’re not familiar with excel, this probably isn’t the right venue for getting into it.

 

Yes, those are measurements. The crown, table, pavilion, stars, lower girdle are all names of various facets on the stone and what you are seeing is some average measurements of those facets. They do not stand on their own as good, bad or indifferent. They must be taken in context.

 

Not to get into the arcane math again but you’ll notice that #2 has a 14% bigger face up surface area than #1 AND has a better cut so it’ll be brighter as well. It’s both bigger and better for what I suspect is a similar price. This is a fine example of why it’s difficult to buy diamonds based purely on the numbers. If you saw these two stones side by side, it would be easy as hell to see this difference but finding it through an online database you’re unlikely to notice until the stone arrives, and maybe not even then because most people only get in one stone and they don’t want to hire 3rd party assistance to analyze it because they think the fees defeat the point of getting the online ‘deal’ in the first place.

 

Fire is not a function of table size. It’s a function of the relationships between the angles of each facet and the viewer. It’s remarkably complicated. Visible fire also incluldes the details of the lighting environment, the background and even your vision. To some degree it’s summarized in the ‘cut grade’ value presented on the grading report but, in reality, the answer isn’t on either the report or on that reportcheck page. It involves looking at the stones in a variety of lighting conditions and comparing them to others. If you don’t want to go through the grief of teaching yourself and equipping yourself to be an expert diamond grader, it helps to work with experts. Buy from a credible dealer, get it appraised by a credible appraiser. Unfortunately, there are frauds in both categories so I normally recommend that the first step is to shop for a dealer, not to shop for a stone.

 

Allow me to suggest that you rethink your strategy. You’re heading for a realm of arcane math, optical minutia and diamond grading details that will make about 99% of the world think you’re crazy. Turning yourself into a diamond expert is considerably more difficult that most people expect.

 

Where did you get those two offers and how did you come up with the jeweler(s) making them? On a scale of, say, 1-10, how would you rank the JEWELER as being deserving of your business and why?

 

Neil

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the 2 diamonds' info from my previous posts are from online jewelry store. and the reason why i want to learn more about diamonds, because it's my first time buying diamond by myself - in the past, i got help from my mother-law to negotiate the diamonds deals for me (she doesn't know anything about diamonds, but she is very good w/ negotiating the prices)

 

this time, i'm going to buy the diamond on my own. I was doing some research and found this forum (made my day :)

 

Now, i'm wondering if i should go back to the same jewelry store where i bought my other diamonds to buy my new diamond (by myself), or should i buy it online.

 

what do you think about these diamonds w/ their prices - importantly: are these diamonds good?:

 

a) GIA 12182388, carat: .82 for $3,000

 

;) GIA 13581952, carat: .75 for $2,700

 

i thought those are some really good deals and the diamonds look pretty nice. but after i got a little bit of "diamond" education, i'm not sure any more:

 

"You’ve got several things that I would call red flag issues.

62% table is bit big

33 ° crown angle is tad shallow

42.6 ° pavilion angle is big.

Extremely thick girdle is a bad sign

Symmetry of Good (as opposed to very good or excellent)

The face is the more like the size of a 0.60 than a 0.70 ct.

Cut grade of FAIR usually means bad."

 

BOTH my DIAMONDS HAVE HIGH % IN TABLE :blink:

 

% IN DEPTH IS PRETTY HIGH TOO, IS IT BAD? - THE SHOULDN'T BE NOT BE TOO HIGH NOR TOO LOW IN %, RIGHT?

 

I have another questions:

once, one told me that diamonds will never lose their values, is it right?

 

I'M CURIOUSE ABOUT DIAMONDS + I LOVE THEM :(

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I have another questions:

once, one told me that diamonds will never lose their values, is it right?

The best answer is 'it depends'.. Like many things prices tend to fluctuate up and down.. You could have bought when stones were at a high and try to sell them at a low and be disappointed..

 

Also, for the most part, you can't go in to a jeweler and expect to sell it for what you paid for it.. In fact, 50% of what you paid for it might be generous depending on the circumstances.. Neil has writen some great in depth posts on this subject..

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You're now looking a princess cuts. My comments all had to do with rounds. :(

 

Analyzing the cutting on a princess is way more difficult and the necessary information simply isn't contained on a GIA grading report. (it's not all there on rounds either but the reports on rounds are way more complete)

 

You can get a feel for pricing by using the 'find online jeweler' button at the top of the page. Search for a set of parameters and you can get offers for several stones that are superficially similar. As you are observing, tiny details make a big difference so it’s important to be sure you’re making a fair comparison. Not all VS1 F's are the same but this is a good way to get into the ballpark.

 

By all means, go back to the jeweler you’ve been happy with. Half the battle is finding a jeweler who thinks the way you do and who will treat you the way you deserve. Habit isn’t the best reason to choose or stick with a jeweler, but it’s not too bad. ‘Online’ is not a sufficient description. If you choose to buy online or even at a different store, choose the dealer first, not the diamond. There are some first rate jewelers who sell online and there are some serious sharks. The best deal is not the one that promises the best diamond for the best price – it’s the one that actually delivers the best product for the best price. Unfortunately, these are rarely the same. There’s a blurb in the faq about hunting for the right jeweler.

 

Neil

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Neil: your comments on arounds diamond have been a great help for me, and i AM planning to buy a round diamond this time.

what i'm not sure, is, if the diamonds (the princess diamonds) that i bought in the past are good or not......well, i didn't have much to say in the negotiactions when i was buying the diamonds (my mother-in-law spoke in a different language that i don't understand)...i did do a research on the diamond and base from that i chose those diamonds and i only knew the most basic rules....like S1 or below=not good, color: G or below= not good etc. but then i looked at my diamonds' cetificated yesterday and relized that the table for the diamonds are pretty big which is not good right(?!), which leaves me a second though about going back to the same jeweler.

 

now i'm wondering what you all think about the princess diamonds that i have....are they good? i think that i got good deal for them, but 'm not sure if the qualities are good?

 

if i go and look for a jewelry dealer - how do i find a good dealer? how do i know that the person is "honest" and knowledgeable about diamonds?

 

 

(i'm so glad that i found this forum - really nice people in here and the best part is that getting the advices from the experts ;).....'m loving this idea ....hmm, maybe i shouldn't worry to much about learning all these things about diamonds, since i can always get help and advices from you all, the friendly and nice experts....:P

 

frankly, i really appreciate it

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It’s almost always a mistake to be doing this kind of analysis with stones that you already own, that you couldn’t change if you wanted to, and that you already love. That’s the point of diamonds after all and it’s counterproductive to get into what is good bad or indifferent if you can’t change anything anyway. Keep your mind on track about what your shopping for. Tables in the 70’s on princess cuts are common and not generally a problem.

 

Here are some thoughts on shopping for dealers.

Here are some thoughts on diamonds holding their value for resale.

 

Neil

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shoppingfreak02-I think many dealers would love to have someone as friendly as you for a customer.

 

The primary thing to look for is cut. Noticing a good cut is as simple as seeing a "wow" diamond with your eyes. Evaluating cut is something an experienced dealer can see since he/she has seen thousands of diamonds.

 

When a cutter has visited when I'm in our NY offices, I can tell as soon as they present the goods from 10 feet away. So if you look at lots of diamonds, after a while you just know it when you see it.

 

As for what you have now, there really is no way for us to evaluate the cut. But I do know there is a classifieds section on this website. As for value, Neil has clearly taken to time to write a thoughtful and complete guide on the subject. He'd probably be the best resource on the subject given he's an independent appraiser and is often the one applying a monetary value to purchased diamonds and jewelry.

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The way most of the jewelers work is if you buy the first diamond from them they will give it to you for the full amount if you want a upgrade. But if you just walk in to any jewelry store they will butcher you. My advice go to the jewelry store that you bought your first diamond.

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