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Mark_from_TN

I have my diamond and I have my ring

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Hello again guys. I recently purchased a 1.01ct Princess cut, H color, VS1, very good symmetry and very good polish online from UnionDiamond for about $3600. It is a very nice, pretty stone and I am completely happy with it, despite being a little nervous at first about buying online.

 

I also ended up buying the setting I mentioned in an earlier thread, a Precision Set "Flush Fit" solitaire, 18k white gold with a platinum head for $950 from the local jeweler I mentioned in the same earlier thread. Its a very nice, simple, yet heavy-feelng ring, and my girlfriend says its "the" ring she wants, so all is well there.

 

Individually, I am extremely pleased with both the diamond and the ring. However, when I asked the local jeweler to set the stone in the ring I purchased from them, they said they could do it for a $50 fee (which is not a problem), but that, since I did not buy the stone from them, I would have to personally assume all risk of damage to the stone during the setting process (a HUGE problem).

 

What should I do? I really do not feel at all comfortable taking a chance that my diamond may be damaged/destroyed by the jeweler, and then being left with no diamond and no recourse. I have talked this over with the jeweler, who claims that approximately 5 stones in 100 are chipped/damaged during he setting process. I got the impression that he was trying to put my mind at ease by saying it was highly unlikely that anything bad would happen, but, to be honest, damaging 1 stone in 20 seems like a stuningly high failure rate to me. Is this rate normal? Is this just a bad jeweler? Is he lying to me about the risk for some reason?

 

As we left our last conversation, I am going back to his shop on Friday to show him the ring and the stone again, and I have asked him to come up with a dollar amount that he would be willing to let me pay him in order for him to assume all the risk of damage to the stone. Can anyone tell me what might be a reasonable "insurance fee" for me to pay to protect a stone of the above description and price (including the $50 setting fee, I suppose).

 

This issue was just not a complication that I saw coming. Any and all help/advice will be GREATLY appreciated.

 

Thanks again in advance!

 

Mark

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You might want to look into insuring your engagement ring / diamond. It's usually very cheap if you add it on to your normal insurance (or renter's insurance if you have an apartment). You could probably add it on for about $20 to $30 a year, and there would be no deductible and usually it covers everything from damaging the diamond to losing it.

 

This might cover all of your worries. I would, however, maybe try to look around at some other jewelers and see what their policies are. If you haven't bought the setting yet (which it looks like you have maybe?), I'd also try searching for a better deal on that. $950 seems high for a white gold setting ... is there something else to it that I missed?

 

This is one of the reasons why I think when people buy online, if at all possible, they should try to have the same place set it so that when it's delivered, you have a full engagement ring and nothing to worry about.

 

But either way, if you're worried, call up your local insurance agent. I'm VERY glad that I did this myself, as it takes out a lot of unnecessary worry!

 

Brian

 

brian@beforeproposing.com

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Mark,

 

It’s not as bad as you think. Jewelers Mutual Insurance has a program in place for just this situation. Unfortunately, the standard homeowners companies won't do this although they will write a policy for you after it's set. You will need an appraisal with a description and valuation for the completed project and JM will bind a 1 year policy for you exactly as if you had bought it right AFTER setting. It’s important to have an appraiser who understands what’s going on as this is a slightly different sort of appraising than most are accustomed to and it’s important that the company is correctly told that it requires assembly and that this requires a special attention to their ‘limiting conditions’ section. If they don’t know how to do it, have them call me and I’ll explain it. JM will cover the breakage risk with no deductible and the usual replacement type policy will follow. They’re even pretty price competitive with the other insurance companies although the rates vary from state to state and even city to city. There's a rate chart on their website that ranges from 1% - 2% depending on your zip code. The only real problem is that you don’t have the opportunity to have your appraiser inspect the craftsmanship of the setting work unless you spring for a second appraisal after it’s done.

 

$50 is cheap by the way. That’s the reason they don’t want to take the risk. When I was running a shop, a breakage rate of 1/20 would have gotten you fired pronto. The problem is that at that price, a breakage rate of 1/200 wipes out all of profit on the deal.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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hello, um im not an expert or anything but i agree with the advice these guys have given you about getting it insured first before going to the jeweler. i think you can get renters insurance from the same people who insure your vehicle and renters insurance can cover everything in your apartment make sure to ask questions if thats what you are planning on doing. make you are getting the coverage you want. good luck.

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ps or just get the diamond and or rings insured seperately. if you own a home and have a insurance policy on it you might want to ask them what that policy covers.

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ps or just get the diamond and or rings insured seperately. if you own a home and have a insurance policy on it you might want to ask them what that policy covers.

Unfortunately, unless there have been major changes recently, none of the major insurance companies will insure a loose diamond against damage during the setting process. The two big exceptions to this are JM with the policy I described above and that isn’t really insuring a loose diamond and Chubb, who has a special deal with Blue Nile where you can get policy if you buy it at the same time that you purchase your stone (and assuming that you buy it from BN of course). Annoyingly you can’t go back and add the insurance if you didn’t get it with the original purchase. The commercial policies available to jewelers don’t cover this either. If they break it, they get to deal with it.

 

For jewelers this is a tricky problem. Most are happy to include an ‘insurance component’ as part of the deal where they sold the diamond and saw the profit but are far less anxious to do this for a simple $50 setting fee. There are 3 standard solutions. Refuse to set stones (or certain stones) sold by anyone else, set the stones but make the customer assume the risk, or charge enough for the service that you’re willing to accept the risk and absorb the occasional loss. All three of these will produce complaints from customers and all three have arguments both for and against them.

 

The JM program is also instructive in that it’s an easy way of estimating the value of this insurance component of the setting service. 1-2% of the declared value. In Mark's case that's $46-$92 plus the price of the appraisal.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Actually, my normal insurance coverage covers a diamond for any and all accidents with it. If it breaks, is stolen, or even lost (or even if I don't know what happened to it), they cover it 100%. It's normally covered through homeowners or renters insurance, but if you pay an extra $20 to $30 a year, they'll cover the diamond separately and have it so there's no $500 deductible. I go through State Farm, but I'm sure others do the same.

 

I'm really glad I went this route, because it's covered no matter what. Other insurance companies might not have the same policy, though, so I'd check around.

 

Take care,

 

Brian

 

brian@beforeproposing.com

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Brian,

 

What state are you in? State Farm does not generally offer this coverage in Colorado but they may have different rules in other states. Clients should consult with their agents about the details of any specific policy. This would be a significant improvement in their coverage if they have started doing this. Just to be clear, you are saying that State Farm in your state will insure an UNMOUNTED diamond and will cover damage caused by a jeweler during setting, correct?

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I'm in Wisconsin. And I was told that it covers anything -- accidental damage or loss and even a "mysterious disappearance" as they put it. I did, however, pay the $20 or $30 a year extra to have it outside of my normal insurance so that there's no deductible. This extra $20 or $30 might be what makes it different than their normal homeowners or renters insurance possibly.

 

It sounds like you can have almost anything specifically insured with no deductible for a bit extra outside of the normal plans. For instance, if you smash a big tv or a computer, paying a $500 deductible kind of defeats the purpose on the normal plan.

 

I actually have to give them a call soon to update them on my address, so perhaps I can ask more specifically then and get back to you all today or tomorrow. But as far as the last time I was told, it should cover everything and anything.

 

Take care,

 

Brian

 

brian@beforeproposing.com

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I think you are being confused about what is covered under an 'all risk' type insurance policy. What you purchased is called a 'rider' and it's not really outside of your homeowners policy, it's an addendum to it. State Farm does not offer jewelry only policies. I'll be curious to hear what your agent reports about your coverage. It also might also be worth your time to actually read your policy. I'm not a SF client and can't look at mine. All State Farm jewelry riders that I've had the opportunity to read specifically exclude damage caused during setting although they have lots of different variations on what is covered and what is excluded from their various policies. I'll be very surprised if this particular rule is different in Wisconson but it would certainly be a nice benefit for their policyholders there if you're correct and this is available.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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i have state farm too ( renters insurance)and it does cover my jewelry. but it's always a good idea to ask qyuestions and make sure what your policy covers. i pay 12 dollars a month so it's really worth it.

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Perhaps I'm not being clear.

 

State Farm is an excellent company and they have a fine program for offering jewelry riders to their homeowners and renters policyholders who are interested. Their usual jewelry insurance policy covers many types of losses, including theft, loss, fire, mysterious disappearance and breakage but there are always exclusions. They, and every other major insurance company, have historically specifically excluded exactly the coverage that Mark is looking for, namely the possiblilty of breakage by a jeweler during the setting process. I checked with one of the SF agent friends I work with and they confirm that they are not able to offer policies that include this coverage. I fully agree that this is not especially reliable evidence that this applies everywhere or even that it actually applies in every case here but it's a start. Each policy stands on it's own as a contract so it's not possible to generalize all policies together. I would love to see a policy on an unmounted diamond from any company that includes this coverage. This question gets asked reguarly and, if State Farm or any other company has any insurance product available in th US that addresses it, it will be of great interest to both their current and potential customers.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I would also like to point out that I've never heard of an insurance company calling a chipped stone during setting an "accident"..

 

The closest that I have heard of is an insured filing a claim for a stone damaged during setting.. The insurance company paying out and then persuing the jeweler for the money..

 

This is only anecdotal information..


Steve

Gear Head - Designer - Bench Jeweler - Artist - Web Developer

AnimalCharms.Net

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Brianknox,

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence. :lol:

 

Steve,

 

Yes, I’ve seen this happen. I've even been an expert in resolving these matters. As with all insurance topics, it’s all in the details of the policy. Normally the companies count moving a diamond from an insured ring into a new mounting to be a ‘repair’ and damage caused during this process would be covered under an ordinary type all-risk policy. They view this as a different issue from setting an unmounted stone (I don’t disagree that this distinction is silly, I’m just observing the behavior). The liability of the jeweler immediately comes into question because of the possibility of negligence. I say possibility because asking the jeweler to pay them back is not the same as getting it and accusing them of negligence does not make them guilty. The burden of proof is on the accuser. If the jeweler is clear about their breakage policies when they accept the job and the policies are found to be ‘reasonable’, the company would be expected lose this case and they try really hard not to waste their lawyers' and experts' time on cases that they expect to lose. Unfortunately, lots of jewelers are far from clear about their policies and most don’t want to talk about this issue in the midst of a sales presentation. Since it hardly ever happens, it’s easy to just put it off until the s**t hit’s the proverbial fan. Then it’s too late. The way for you and other jewelers to protect yourselves is to establish a policy and clearly communicate it to your customers. The receipt given when you take in repairs along with the customers signature agreeing to it is the first place an insurance company and a court will look.

 

Neil


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Our policy is easy..

 

We accept full responsibility for all damages done durring setting.. I can count all the damaged stones in the last 3 years on less than one hand.. But it usually happens to grandma's precious, irreplacable, flawless, D color, Old Mine Cut :lol:

 

We charge appropriatly for the service and refuse certain stones as well.. And generally $50 doesn't cover it..


Steve

Gear Head - Designer - Bench Jeweler - Artist - Web Developer

AnimalCharms.Net

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Hello,

I just came back to the site after recommending it to a friend of mine who is now in the market for a diamond. After looking over my old posts, I am very shocked and embarrassed to discover that I apparently did not bother to say "Thank You!" to all of you took the trouble to post such helpful replies to my question! (I promise that I thought I had, but I see that I was mistaken)

 

Again, I am embarrassed that this is coming so ridiculously late, but I would like to thank all of you for your generous help and trouble!

 

;)

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I live in South Carolina and have State Farm Insurance. I had a loose diamond that went back & forth to New York to be set & I was sweating it. My agent told me that State Farm does not insure loose stones,only jewelry & it is not considered jewelry until it is set into a setting The rider costs more than $10-$12 dollars. They have a different calculator factor per $100 of insurance based on the appraised value, a $25,000 ring has a different calculator than a $5,000 ring. I have a $25,000 ring & the insurance is around $375.00 per year. P.S. The rates are different based on where you live, South Carolina has one of the least expensive rates. I hope this is of information.

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