Jump to content

Help - Bought Diamond, then noticed Girdle ..


JD_9955
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

First time poster here, and I hope to continue in the community, as Diamonds are really exciting once you get to know more about the various characteristics !!    Have been having fun reading about them and seeing the different kinds out there  :) 

I just purchased a Princess Cut diamond, whereby the website outlined the Diamond had an Excellent/Ideal cut, however after purchasing I noticed the girdle in in the range of "thick to very thick".    I also only found out that GIA reports don't grade the "cut" of a diamond,  so now I'm a little worried the diamond I bought (which is suppose to have an Excellent / Ideal Cut,  may not (due to having a really thick girdle)...  Should I be worried that my new diamond purchase may not have the best cut (due to the girdle thickness), and hence may not be as scintillating / reflective as expected ?

******************

For Reference,  the diamond I purchased is in the link below,   (and the GIA number is 1379436272)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.04-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-11082819

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1379436272

******************

Before I purchased, I ensured that all other elements were in line with what an "excellent cut" means for a Princess cut diamond (eg.. table and depth percentages within range,  table percentage being less than the depth percentage, excellent polish, excellent symmetry, L/W ratio 1.0,  Cutlet = none, etc),  however I didn't think to look at the girdle (until after I purchased it)...

From the specs above (in the links) do you guys think the "thick to very thick" girdle can take away form my diamond having an "excellent" cut, and hence take away from how striking it should play with the light?

Thanks in advance guys  :)

-JD

 

*******************

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, JD_9955 said:

having a really thick girdle)...  Should I be worried that my new diamond purchase may not have the best cut (due to the girdle thickness), and hence may not be as scintillating / reflective as expected ?

The good news: girdle thickness, within rather broad limits, is not going to impact optics.

The not-so-good news: girdle thickness will impact the visual size of the diamond: the thicker the girdle, the smaller the diamond will look (for the same weight).

7 hours ago, JD_9955 said:

all other elements were in line with what an "excellent cut" means for a Princess cut diamond (eg.. table and depth percentages within range,  table percentage being less than the depth percentage, excellent polish, excellent symmetry, L/W ratio 1.0,  culet = none, etc)

(Italic mine)

The real issue is that while those elements - including the girdle - are somewhat relevant, they don't really tell you very much about cut quality from the point of view of brightness, sparkle and fire. Table/depth ranges are largely meaningless in that respect - a bit like buying a car based on tyre size.

Looking at the diamond video and the GIA report, it seems like a nicely cut diamond; personally I prefer a different set of proportions, with a higher crown and narrower table, but the girdle thickness has very little to do with that (except for the fact that it's more profitable for a diamond cutter to have a thicker girdle than a higher crown: that way, they can cut a larger second diamond from the same rough crystal).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Hi David,

Thanks for your response and knowledgeable insights,  much appreciated !

29 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

he good news: girdle thickness, within rather broad limits, is not going to impact optics.

Phew !    That's reassuring to know !     : )

29 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

The not-so-good news: girdle thickness will impact the visual size of the diamond: the thicker the girdle, the smaller the diamond will look (for the same weight).

I can definitely see how this works out now,  as my 1.04ct Diamond really has comparable size dimensions to a 1.01/1.02 ish carat Diamond...  i.e roughly 5.5x x 5.5 x 4.0mm .    Can definitely see now how a thicker girdle can contribute to "wasted carat space" (as such)

Thanks again for your awesome reply !

Regards,

JD

PS: It really is interesting how a larger carat diamond can have the same dimensions of a lower carat diamond.  One would have thought that the general density of diamond (in general) would be the same across the board, and hence if you have a higher carat diamond,  dimensions must also be greater.. ?   hmm interesting isnt it.

Edited by JD_9955
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/28/2021 at 7:13 PM, davidelevi said:

; personally I prefer a different set of proportions, with a higher crown and narrower table, 

 

Hi David,

Just curious as to what dimensions you prefer in this space (for Princess Cut Diamonds) ?    i.e. what percentage for both the table and depth would you normally go for ?   

eg - 68% table and 71% depth ?   or   x ?

Thanks David

PS: the reason I ask is because I just received an email from the diamond dealer I put the order in for the abovementioned diamond, and apparently its been sold at the same time  :(   Im now on the hunt for another one, and the dealer has offered me this replacement (at no additional cost)..

image.png.e2f6e691e00b47f506c0c17c0b07a1e8.png

 

I am slightly concerned about the multiple clouding in the one central area,   so might look to give it a miss

Thoughts ?

PS: I am not hung up on a D color,  and would be happy to drop to an F,  so I presume I could get a better diamond (girdle and depth/table % wise) for my money ?

 

Thanks again  : )

Regards,

Jeff

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, JD_9955 said:

what percentage for both the table and depth would you normally go for ?   

It's not so much a (range of) percentage of table and depth - those are misleading by themselves. But I would definitely want a higher crown - which in turn would lead to a smaller table. The looks that result are quite different from (e.g.) the first diamond that we were looking at in this thread: a bit less brightness, and quite a bit more fire.

Here is an example (which I don't particularly like as such, but it represents those characteristics quite nicely, and it's from James Allen, so it has been filmed with similar technique): https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-613063

38 minutes ago, JD_9955 said:

I am slightly concerned about the multiple clouding in the one central area,   so might look to give it a miss

Thoughts ?

Nothing to be concerned about. It's graded VS1, which means the inclusions are somewhat difficult to see by a trained observer with a 10x loupe, and the stone loose - and they have no effect on the optics of the diamond.

This diamond on paper looks comparable to the first one, but there really is not enough information on the report to say whether it looks good in reality or not. The fact that it is 'the same price' when normally a D would go for a 10-15% premium over an E could mean that there is something not particularly nice with it, but whether there is and what it is can only be assessed by viewing the diamond. Will the vendor accept the diamond back for a decent period of time, and return all of your money if you decide to send the diamond back? If so, you have little to lose...

45 minutes ago, JD_9955 said:

I am not hung up on a D color,  and would be happy to drop to an F,  so I presume I could get a better diamond (girdle and depth/table % wise) for my money ?

Probably yes, but the devil is in the details of the cut, and to have more information on that you need to either get a diamond graded by AGS (who have a reliable cut grading system for princess cuts), have a cooperative dealer that sends you good quality videos and/or reflector images, or to be able to see the diamond in person. I really would not take a chance based on depth and table percentages alone - though having a less thick girdle would almost definitely be good (until it gets to 'too thin' and then there is a risk of chipping when setting).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the response again David,  much appreciated !

Wow - I suppose most of the figures cant really beat the way a diamond looks in person then, hey  ; )    I suppose that is the main factor in the end, and the dimensions/proportions/gradings can only help to roughly guide a buyer..

here is the second diamond the company has pointed me to..  with live video/picture  .  unfortunately,  the video/picture is not as clear as what James allen posts,  so can really see how good the diamond looks from a cut perspective..

https://www.77diamonds.com/diamonds/loose-diamonds?item=-1&diamond=PRIPUIFSV6S7CEFZ

Diamond Code = PRIPUIFSV6S7CEFZ

Kind Regards,

Jeff

PS: they have offered me a 20% discount on this one,  as I missed the last one (when it was double sold).  20% is good,   but I wonder about whether it will look good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

David,

I just want to say thanks again for your input,   

For the record, I decided to neglect the 20% discount diamond and go with this one..

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1378975244

Having a narrower table (at 69%), and a higher crown, was good advice,  and I can see the diamond looks better in the pictures

Thanks again mate !

 

Edited by JD_9955
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are very welcome - congratulations on the decision!

As far as one can tell from the report, it looks OK. Proof of this particular pudding is in the seeing - so if you can get the vendor to publish/send you images and video, happy to add more comments! The same if you have a question once you get the diamond.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
  • Create New...