Jump to content

Should I buy this 2.01 ct. GIA/IF/I round brilliant


JAX
 Share

Recommended Posts

I am interested in this stone to put into a custom setting. I would appreciate any feedback on this diamond. I was told by a jeweler that because it was IF that it may have "structural" problems around the edges and that they would not set the diamond. I would also appreciate any input/opinion on this "I" color.

I have purchased this diamond but have not received it yet. I would appreciate an honest opinion as to whether I should return it and start a new search.

The GIA number is 5211299763. A video of the diamond can be seen by going to

https://dna.stonehdfile.com/ViewHD.html?d+520331743#View360 or on RareCarat.com by searching for the GIA number. I could not get the link to work but have attached the GIA report.

Thank you so much for your opinion 

GIA Report.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, JAX said:

I was told by a jeweler that because it was IF that it may have "structural" problems around the edges and that they would not set the diamond

That is BS. What is true is that setting it may cause microscopic damage to the finish and it would no longer qualify as IF. Since there is typically a fair amount of money between VVS1 and IF (all else being equal), they may not want the responsibility, but there are no structural issues with any diamond just because it is graded IF. If anything, the absence of inclusions visible at 10x and the fact that the surface has polished up nicely without leaving graining lines or pitting - both necessary to get an IF clarity grade - would indicate the opposite!

57 minutes ago, JAX said:

I would also appreciate any input/opinion on this "I" color.

There is nothing wrong with it - but colour sensitivity and taste are very individual things. Especially in a relatively large stone, you may see some tint through the side when observed against a white background.

The cut is fine, although there is some weight 'hidden' in the crown, to get the stone over the magical 2 carat barrier.

Assuming you paid a fair price, whether you should return it really depends on whether you like it... and only you can be the judge of that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, davidelevi said:

That is BS. What is true is that setting it may cause microscopic damage to the finish and it would no longer qualify as IF. Since there is typically a fair amount of money between VVS1 and IF (all else being equal), they may not want the responsibility, but there are no structural issues with any diamond just because it is graded IF. If anything, the absence of inclusions visible at 10x and the fact that the surface has polished up nicely without leaving graining lines or pitting - both necessary to get an IF clarity grade - would indicate the opposite!

There is nothing wrong with it - but colour sensitivity and taste are very individual things. Especially in a relatively large stone, you may see some tint through the side when observed against a white background.

The cut is fine, although there is some weight 'hidden' in the crown, to get the stone over the magical 2 carat barrier.

Assuming you paid a fair price, whether you should return it really depends on whether you like it... and only you can be the judge of that!

Thank you for your reply. I should receive it next week. I price was in the mid 18K range. Do you think that was a fair price?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm hard-pressed to imagine what they're talking about beyond just trying to spike someone else's sale. Nothing about IF increases damage risk. Med-sl thick girdle is just fine. Optimum even. Given the examination date of less than a month ago it is almost certainly 'new' stock that has never been set. 

I don't blame them for not wanting to set it for exactly the liability reason Davide mentioned. Does the company selling it also set? If so, consider using them. It avoids fingerpointing issues.  


I am curious though. IF/I is an unusual combination. May I ask why you picked that particular stone?

Edited by denverappraiser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, davidelevi said:

It worked for me right now - GIA website problem?

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5211299763

Curiouser and curiouser.  Your link works, but when I use the GIA report lookup feature with the report number it doesn't.  I interact with this GIA lookup system fairly often and it doesn't seem to be entirely broken. Just this stone.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, JAX said:

Hi Neil. Thank you for your response. I do appreciate it. The link to the video of the diamond does not appear to be working but if you manually put it in you can see the diamond. I would appreciate any feedback. 

https://dna.stonehdfile.com/ViewHD.html?d=520331743#View360 

Thank you 

I don't actually find those sorts of videos to be very useful, especially for high clarity stones. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, denverappraiser said:

I interact with this GIA lookup system fairly often and it doesn't seem to be entirely broken. Just this stone.  

Interesting. Sometimes clearing cache and cookies works - although it's a pain - or working from an incognito window (which is a different type of pain - it generally asks me to find all the images with buses...).

Many sites leave a lot of rubbish behind, especially if there has been an error on the site when retrieving something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/26/2021 at 4:09 AM, davidelevi said:

FWIW, it seems fairly 'lifeless' and without contrast in the video. Whether that's because of the video technique or because the stone actually shows that way is a different question.

Curious here Davide,

You said lifeless. On paper, it seems the numbers aren't so bad on this stone. If the lifelessness is not from the video technique, then what do you think it's from?  Can you tell us what you think the issue is here? Is it because the crown angle is 36? Your explanation will certainly help in researching future stones.

I see it does take a hit on the AGS  Guidelines chart.

Thanks,

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Bill - good to see you! Hope all is well in these uncertain times!

I agree, the numbers don't seem bad at all, and the crown angle is the only thing that seems a bit off from a classic 'Tolkowsky' set of proportions (plus the girdle).

In purely theoretical terms that should not give the feeling of 'uniformly bland' that I'm getting from the video - it may make the diamond a little darker, but not like that. The main effect is that of making the crown weigh more for no visual benefit - which is important to take this stone over 2 carats: a back-of the-envelope estimate says the difference between the 36° crown angle and a canonical 34.5° is about 1 point for this stone... coincidence? I think not.

I cannot think of a reason why an IF stone with these proportions would show like that - there are no macroscopic inclusions, no fluorescence to mess things up (if the lighting sources were not UV filtered) and if there were so much strain in the lattice as to affect transparency and diffuse light to that extent there would be signs such as internal graining that would preclude the stone getting an IF grade.

This is why, personally, I think the issue is in the video technique - mostly lighting, possibly the camera position and setup. As Neil said, this type of video is useful to demonstrate visibility of inclusions (fairly useless for an IF), but doesn't do much for showing other cut properties.

However, if I were buying the diamond I would definitely want to check that the diamond has good contrast and scintillation when seen 'in real life'; I would do that anyway, but here in particular since there is no evidence 'for' it being a visually nice stone, and there is some - albeit very limited - 'against'. 

Sorry - simple question, and a novel in response...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very interesting.

So perhaps if a video of this stone with different lighting, setup and technique would produce a completely different perception?  For personal knowledge, I'd be eager to see that.

All the more reason to have a trusted and knowledgeable jeweler at hand to decipher all this. 

Thanks for your explanation.

Bill

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are very welcome.

3 hours ago, satbeachbill said:

So perhaps if a video of this stone with different lighting, setup and technique would produce a completely different perception?  For personal knowledge, I'd be eager to see that.

Very likely. And I'd be interested too, but the chances of it happening are low, unfortunately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your input and opinion. I received the diamond and it looks beautiful. The diamond is GIA certified. I took it to a jeweler to shop for a setting and was told that my diamond was certified GIA India and that makes it a "lower" quality or not "rated as it appears" than if it was GIA certified in the United States.  Is that true? At this point I am thinking jewelers don't want to set a stone you didn't buy from them because that is where they make most of their money. I would appreciate you feedback.

Thank you

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JAX said:

my diamond was certified GIA India and that makes it a "lower" quality or not "rated as it appears" than if it was GIA certified in the United States.  Is that true?

No. 1) there is no way to tell from the report which GIA lab has graded the stone, and that is deliberate on GIA's part. 2) it is true that in relatively recent times GIA has suffered from consistency problems, and that part of the issue was maintaining that consistency in grading across 'new' labs, but that was 4 years ago and as far as I can tell the issues have been resolved since.

5 hours ago, JAX said:

I am thinking jewelers don't want to set a stone you didn't buy from them because that is where they make most of their money.

There is a 'didn't make money' side to it, and there is a 'stand to lose money' side. Especially assuming you have bought both the ring and the stone somewhere else, I would think the latter dominates.

Seen from their point of view, for a relatively low fee to cover the setting work you will hold them responsible for the final look of the ring and any loss/damage to stone and metal. Their insurance is unlikely to cover them for loss or damage to new items that are not their property (i.e. brought in from a third party as opposed to their stock). Even if you explicitly waived their responsibility for loss or damage, there is still a chance that you are not going to be happy with the work and would give negative referrals/reviews.

Edited by davidelevi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are very welcome.

One more clarification - I'm not saying the jeweller refusing the work is right (or wrong); I'm just trying to explain their likely point of view so you can have a more productive conversation with someone else (who hopefully doesn't rubbish a perfectly good stone for no reason 😉).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for clarifying. Being told that the diamond was certified with GIA in India and may not be correct made me worried that I didn't purchase a good stone and that something was wrong with the certification. I brought the stone into the store to buy a setting or have the jeweler custom make a setting. I was able to see the diamond with a loop and also with a Firescope. It looks beautiful and had full hearts and arrows (although the jeweler told me the that the hearts and arrows were "ever so slightly off" but in her words that would be "picking the diamond apart".

My only complaint, and it is not really a complaint, is that I would prefer if it was closer to an G or H in color but it is still beautiful. The diamond was sold on RareCarat by multiple vendors and the price was between $19,200 to $21,700. I ended up paying mid $18K range. Do you think this is a fair price for the stone and does that price raise any red flags for this diamond based on the GIA report without being able to see the stone in person?

Thanks again for your input and feedback. I am running out of time to return the stone.

Edited by JAX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The price seems fair. As with everything:

1. The report (and photos etc.) only goes so far in establishing a basis for 'fair price'. For example, an 'I' which is nearly an 'H' will typically go for more than an 'I' that is nearly a 'J', but there is no way of knowing where a specific stone is without having it in hand (and having some kit, and a fair amount of training).

2. Value is in the eye of the beholder. Especially if you 'regret' the colour, it shouldn't be difficult to exchange the premium you've paid for clarity for less tint and keep the other parameters where they are (or even improve on them a little).

I would dismiss any concerns brought in by people that have a horse in the race (i.e. 'other jewellers that could have sold you a stone'), at least until you answer the following positively:

a. Do you like the stone enough to want to keep it? This includes resolving niggling doubts about 'I don't like the tint', but not 'I am worried that it may not be graded correctly and therefore I overpaid' (you'll see why below)

b. Can you find someone that will sell/make you a setting for the stone and that you are happy working with?

Once you have resolved both of those with a positive outcome, then find a good independent appraiser (i.e. NOT a jeweller!) and ask them to provide you with their unbiased, expert opinion on the stone, and specifically whether they think it matches the report and whether you paid a fair price. It's probably going to cost a couple of hundred $, but as well as providing peace of mind it will also help you get the ring properly insured (and it will get you an opinion on whether the ring is made and set properly too, after all that is complete). If everything checks out, then go ahead; if any one of these three tests on the stone fails, then return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi David,

Thank you so much for your response. The vendor I bought the diamond from will make me the setting so I can definitely use them. I was just trying to find a local jeweler because they are out of state. But I can make that work no problem. The stone is beautiful and my husband really liked it. When I very first inquired about the stone from the vendor I was told by him that it was a "high I closer to an H" and the vendor is telling me that when it is set (in platinum) it will be even brighter. I hope that is true! As for the appraisal, I will look for someone to do that. I do not mind paying for that. Thanks again for all of your help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
  • Create New...