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Advice emerald cut diamonds GIA/0.7/0.9Ct


Eme12
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Hi everyone!

We are currently looking for an engagement ring and decided on an emerald cut. We live in Antwerp so the heart of diamonds and these are the 2 we have been shown so far:

 

F/VVS1/0.70
F/VVS2/0.90

 

We are a bit worried about the fluorescence in the 0.9 diamond and the girdle thickness in both. We are leaning more towards the 0.9 but were thinking of asking for additional diamonds without fluorescence and a less thick girdle so we will be spending less € on weight that we can't see. 

 

Any other advise on emeralds would be much appreciated as we've learned it's one tough cookie to find a proper cut one. Most we've been shown so far are either see through or have weird inclusions. For me it's important that the facets are clearly shown as I love the hall of mirror effect. It doesn't have to spark.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

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The problem is that there is very little on a lab report that tells you (or us) whether the stone is well cut or not. The only way to really address this is to see it. FWIW, from the two photos that you posted, if they look anything like the stone typically does in reality, that is a really poorly cut stone. The big advantage of living in Antwerp is that you can probably see a lot of other ones quite easily! Don't be rushed into making a decision too soon, and keep looking. When you find 'the one' you will know it.

Also FWIW, I would be much less worried about fluorescence than you seem to be. You may find this GIA article interesting to read: https://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/winter-1997-fluorescence-diamonds-moses

Final note: I don't know what diamonds 'with weird inclusions' you may have seen, but VVS clarity is usually overkill - it is definitely paying € for something you can't see.

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Really appreciate your feedback David! I'll post a professional picture from the jeweler for the 0.9ct I don't think I have one for the 0.7ct. 

I guess that's it, it was a beautiful stone but for some reason I didn't feel the 'click' with it. The center looked very dark which looked a bit weird as I like to see the facets of each pavilion. We were first looking at much lower clarity and most of the stones had inclusions I could spot right away. I'm a perfectionist at heart and even the jeweller was shocked I could see it with my eye instead of a loop. So because of that we decided to go to VVS, also because we thought (correct me if I'm wrong) that emerald is all about the clarity. 

Price wise it's okay, it's €4000 with the band included (pave) which will be set in the same color grade and clarity as the center stone to match. I just hope this jeweller won't think we are wasting his time denying each stone he shows us. The patience these guys have ha!

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If the big black below the keel (the sharp edge at the bottom of the stone) is just due to the photograph angle (i.e. it's not there permanently or most of the time as you rock the stone back and forth and from side to side), then it's much better than the other one. Is it the right one for you? Only you can decide.

Clarity - in my opinion it's one of those things that you have to do up to the point where you are happy that you don't see or worry about the inclusions, whether that's I2 or VVS1. It varies significantly from stone to stone, and from person to person. But going above brings no visual benefit: you just pay for rarity. If you are happy with VVS, absolutely fine - I would just encourage you not to think that there are no VS (or even SI) stones without bothering inclusions.

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Yes totally agree but we prefer to have the ideal grade on paper as well besides just being eye clean. We're going back next week and have a look again, I've had some time to think about it and I'm missing the hall of mirror effect. 

Another jeweller contacted us for a 0.7ct stone he has at the moment but it looks like the stone has a dent on the right side... Am I seeing things or is this actually the case? It's a F/VS2 with crystal and feather inclusions. It's especially noticeable on the band + bottom is see through there. 

 

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Edited by Eme12
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15 minutes ago, Eme12 said:

Am I seeing things or is this actually the case?

I wish I could tell you for certain. 🙂 Is that in red what you are referring to?

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It seems like a whole chunk is missing from the side... which would be very difficult to do by cutting! So I suspect it's just an effect due to the setting below the stone becoming visible (and the stone not being very good, so you actually see the setting)... However, all this said, it could only be an artefact of the photo. Is that something that you have seen 'in reality', or just a couple of photos the vendor has sent you?

I would recommend you taking the photos as close as possible (with the diamond remaining into focus!), and then cropping the resulting photo just around the diamond before pasting it into the post. This way we can get maximum magnification.

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Will do! Maybe it's because that side is see through as well and the camera didn't pick it up due to it not being focussed. We asked for different pictures perhaps he can send some proper ones before we go check it out. Unfortunately due to covid it's difficult to go together (only 1 person allowed) and we're seeing high infection rates here. Not a great time to go check out engagement rings 😆

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Unfortunately we will not be able to go there due to this pandemic so we are currently in contact with a jeweller that does everything online and has great reviews. He proposed a 0.9 stone that is H/VS1 for 4600 euros. The 0.9 stone in my first comment is 4300 but a F/VVS1. He says that the stone is cheaper due to the fluorescence and he highly does not advice to buy this stone as it's like buying a brand new car with a broken engine. It devalues the stone. The fluorescence is not visible though so it's a better and cheaper option than what he proposed. He now said he might have a better option so I'm curious how this will pan out! Below a picture of the H stone.

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I rather like fluorescence, but he's correct that it generally makes most diamonds, especially high color diamonds, less expensive. To me, that's a feature, not a problem. To use his analogy, I would call it like buying a new car that's an unusual color. That makes them hard to sell, and that's a problem for THEM, but for you, it's a matter of your taste in colors.  

 

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Thank you @denverappraiser, my partner has the same opinion he doesn't see the issue with a fluorescent stone. Not an issue for me either as long as there is the guarantee it will not turn blue in the sun. It would be a cool feature but I would have preferred a different color to blue 😉

We received 2 different stones from the first jeweller we went to, living in the heart of diamonds is great but it can make the choice overwhelming. He contacted us he with 2 new stones (previous one were see through and included). The right stone is the D stone. I'm looooving the hall of mirror effect the right one gives so let's hope it's the same in real life. Corner/centre ratio also looks great and I love that it's less narrow as the left one. Price is however a bit more expensive, stone alone is 3600 euros so we'll have to top that with an additional 1000 for the band.

Feedback is much appreciated, your help has been great so far!!

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Thank you David! We have 1 more stone to look at on Thursday. It's priced at €2800 for a 0.72ct. They also have a 0.9 but not sure yet how much that one will be. Here is a video and certificate: 

https://storageweweb.blob.core.windows.net/files/INVENTORYDATA/VISION360/Vision360.html?d=1390720&autoPlay=1

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In the video it looked like I could see an inclusion but she claims it's impossible and it's coming from the camera: 

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I don't have anything besides the certificate for the 0.72 yet so waiting game! I did tell her I didn't like that the tables are so high in these 2 but she's confident they are great diamonds and I shouldn't look too much at the report.

 

So far the update! Curious which stone we will end up picking!

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From photo and video, it's not bad but I still prefer the other one*. Also, this one seems quite a bit more rectangular (which is OK if this is what you want; I usually prefer a slightly squarer aspect ratio).

* The problem is that the photos (and video) have not been taken by the same people in the same conditions - so to a large extent the comparison is invalid. If - big if - the stones look to you in reality as they do in the photos, I'd pick the D. Again, ignoring cost considerations. The large table and low crown of the F are consistent with what I see... and those are facts, not artefacts.

FWIW, on clarity, I think the vendor is correct - in the sense that the report does not show a pinpoint or a crystal in that position, so I'd think it's a grain of dust on the stone or on the lens.

Edited by davidelevi
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Couldn't agree more! I already have slender fingers so that's another reason why I would prefer the D stone too. The seller of the 0.72 said the stone is the perfect ratio and is convinced it's the best EC out there so I have high expectations for Thursday. Although the "perfect" ratio is highly subjective.

My doubt is merely about the facets, for some reason it's more visible and clear in VVS (at least from what we've seen so far). Some seem to push to buy a higher color diamond, others clarity. Makes this search quite difficult!

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2 hours ago, Eme12 said:

The seller of the 0.72 said the stone is the perfect ratio and is convinced it's the best EC out there

Of course it is! It's his/hers... 😉

2 hours ago, Eme12 said:

My doubt is merely about the facets, for some reason it's more visible and clear in VVS (at least from what we've seen so far). Some seem to push to buy a higher color diamond, others clarity.

My (semi-requested) advice: ignore any advice about "higher colour" or "higher clarity" (they are largely relevant to establish a price, frankly) - buy what you like. Higher colour will not make a badly cut stone look better, and the same goes for higher clarity.

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mmm... the video is taken in such a way as to look almost inevitably bad for an em-cut... the angle changes only for the short sides, and those do show significant changes in contrast. The fact that you have alternating black-and-white "frames" is a pretty good sign; those would swap place if the stone moved along another plane.

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Well she suddenly said she doesn't have the 0.9ct anymore. So we'll have to wait for other options, she has some other ones that might be good as well and prefers to show. For some reason she also said she prefers to not show the 0.72 one anymore. It almost sounds like a plot to show a good and bad diamond and that will make me choose the 0.9ct one but her plot got a twist as the 0.9 wasn't available anymore. 

More news tomorrow! Thank your for reading this loooong thread with my updates, much appreciated! Oh 1 question I thought of: is it useful to ask for ASET pictures? How should it look like ideally?

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11 hours ago, Eme12 said:

is it useful to ask for ASET pictures? How should it look like ideally?

It may be useful if the vendor is willing and knows how to take the pictures. I'd be surprised if an Antwerp retailer even knew of ASET. Also, if eventually you are going to see the diamonds in real life before committing, I would say the use is quite limited.

In terms of "how should it look like" - not dissimilar from a real life picture, except coloured: symmetric, alternating bands of red and blue (or green and blue), as little white and black as possible (there will be some).

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Indeed the ASET is not known over here... They had a scope at one jeweler but in general most don't know it.

But good news! I've found the ring finally and even decided to change up the band.

Thank you so much for your help!! The D stone was a very good contender but I was missing the tight step cuts there. This one has it all, an E/VVS1 and also 0.8ct.

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