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scoopo16

Can someone review my Diamond?

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Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum and buying diamonds, my lady is look for a diamond band halo pear ring.

I've got a few options on the table, however I'm stuck on whether the symmetry of this diamond is bad or if it has bow tie effect?

https://bg.prolanceit.in/media/vision360.html?d=H61304107

Any feed back would be appreciated.

The diamond is;

  • D color
  • IF clarity
  • 0.80 carat
  • Fluorescence - None
  • Polish - Excellent
  • Symmetry - Very Good
  • Characteristics - Minor details of polish

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Under such level of magnification almost every pear and oval will show some level of bow tie effect. How that translates into real life is totally different. Some excellent symmetry diamonds may have bow tie effects as well. The symmetry relates to how well aligned are the facets to their corresponding facets. It doesn't take into consideration the crown and pavillion angles of which a product is your bow tie. 


Swanstar Diamonds.
http://www.swanstar.com.au
Melbourne, Australia.

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As Furqan says, it is difficult to say based on the limited information we have.  All oblong shapes will display some degree of bowtie but the intensity can be modulated by the cut (proportions).  Can you post the grading report?  My guess is that this stone has a depth in the 60 to 62% range, in which case the bowtie may be a little more pronounced, but this is only my opinion based on the 360v imaging.


Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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As Furqan and Laurent have said, yes, there is some bow-tie/darkening, and it is largely unavoidable. No, it's not bad, and no, the symmetry is not what is causing it (and a pear with VG is definitely not "bad symmetry")


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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This is an extremely shallow diamond, much more so than I had estimated. It would probably help you to see it on a live video, rather than what has been provided. My experience leads me to believe this stone will have a pronounced bow tie as well as a fairly glassy look, but this is only an educated guess. Sometimes, other factors can play a role in the overall look. 


Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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12 hours ago, LaurentGeorge said:

This is an extremely shallow diamond, much more so than I had estimated. It would probably help you to see it on a live video, rather than what has been provided. My experience leads me to believe this stone will have a pronounced bow tie as well as a fairly glassy look, but this is only an educated guess. Sometimes, other factors can play a role in the overall look. 

Extremely shallow? The table and depth % fits within the “ideal” range for a pear shaped diamond? I believe that pear shaped diamonds are normally like this. What is the ideal mm depth for a pear 0.8ct diamond?

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14 hours ago, denverappraiser said:

The 'bowtie'' is the dark-colored stripe across the center of the stone. 

Pear bowtie.png
 

here’s a few photos of a different diamond (see GIA report 5356917000 above) this diamond “to me” doesn’t appear to have as pronounced bow tie - it’s also doesn’t appear as glassy as LaurentGeorge pointed out in a previous post)

 

355DC961-0179-4D3A-99A9-77EB303AF910.jpeg

39C9FD6C-84A5-42BB-BC74-1A22C23645AA.jpeg

EE280C25-2EB0-4D02-A8E4-59C483138B95.jpeg

00C1CC82-42B1-447C-8225-C8D056F7114F.jpeg

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6 hours ago, scoopo16 said:

The table and depth % fits within the “ideal” range for a pear shaped diamond?

According to whom? I don't know of any such thing as a definition of ideal proportions for pears. 

6 hours ago, scoopo16 said:

What is the ideal mm depth for a pear 0.8ct diamond?

That depends on the rest of the stone. And I doubt there is a single, definitive answer: a squat, rounded pear will "work" with different proportions than a thin, pointed one.

FWIW, and as far as it can be judged from a short video and a few photos taken in unknown conditions (conditions that are almost certainly different than the first stone's - making comparisons that much harder), this second stone has at least as much of a bow-tie as the first one (and it certainly has a wide table and too shallow a crown for my taste).

Two observations, if I may:

1. A bow-tie of some sort is pretty much unavoidable in an elongated shape. It's not necessarily bad, and it can add visual interest.

2. You seem to be very keen on "D/IF". If there is a symbolic meaning behind this, all well and good. But there are relatively few D/IF stones, and this limits your choice in other respects, such as cut. If your concern is that colour and/or inclusions would be visible, be reassured that a G/VS2 pear will look very white and clean.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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16 minutes ago, scoopo16 said:

Here is another option I’ve been floated, although it a heavier diamond it’s visually smaller that the two above.

I find the proportions more pleasing than the other two, but the thick girdle is taking a big toll in terms of size/weight. The videos are so short and with the stone in such a fixed position vs. the light that it's impossible to say anything certain re: bow-ties, but it seems to have a smaller one.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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The range of proportions above is complete nonsense. Sorry. Very well cut stones can certainly be found within those ranges but extremely poorly cut stones can as well. A stone with a 56% depth and 64% Table is unlikely to have the sparkle and scintillation of a stone with D64 T57. Yet both are within the so-called ideal range above. And we have not even looked at girdles or any other parameters yet. There are no defined ideal parameters for pear shapes but if you are trying to minimize the bow tie effect then a relatively small table in the 55 to 59 range with a little depth, 63-66 and a thin to medium girdle would be where I would focus my attention. 

  • Like 2

Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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GIA doesn’t have a cut grade for pears and they don’t use the word ‘ideal’ at all, even for rounds. The problem with cut grading pears is that it’s too complicated. Even with rounds, which only have a dozen or so variables, it’s hotly argued what is the ‘best’ set of parameters. Pears have far more, and the set of stones is far smaller.  AGS has tried. That’s a pretty good lab and they put some real effort into cut grading fancies. They’ve been at it for decades and they STILL haven’t tackled pears.  To call it harder than it looks is an understatement. The approach you’re showing above does raise an interesting question. If they’re not using GIA grading standards, what are they using (and why?)

  • Like 2

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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On 10/10/2020 at 10:51 PM, LaurentGeorge said:

The range of proportions above is complete nonsense. Sorry. Very well cut stones can certainly be found within those ranges but extremely poorly cut stones can as well. A stone with a 56% depth and 64% Table is unlikely to have the sparkle and scintillation of a stone with D64 T57. Yet both are within the so-called ideal range above. And we have not even looked at girdles or any other parameters yet. There are no defined ideal parameters for pear shapes but if you are trying to minimize the bow tie effect then a relatively small table in the 55 to 59 range with a little depth, 63-66 and a thin to medium girdle would be where I would focus my attention. 

Thanks for your feedback, here is another Diamond, that fits within the parameters of what you've outlined above, from the video it doesn't appear that there is any sort of pronounced bow tie.

On 10/10/2020 at 7:11 PM, davidelevi said:

2. You seem to be very keen on "D/IF". If there is a symbolic meaning behind this, all well and good. But there are relatively few D/IF stones, and this limits your choice in other respects, such as cut. If your concern is that colour and/or inclusions would be visible, be reassured that a G/VS2 pear will look very white and clean.

There is no symbolic meaning, I just figured those parameters automatically meant it was a better diamond - apart from cut, shape and sizes. I think you have a point in that a lower colour and clarity would look equally as good and possibly better if it has a good shape, cut and size.

Have a look at this one and let me know your thoughts? I think the girdle could be better but don't this will matter too much as its being set in a halo style ring.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0-RSRg_qlqE_6i8ebtiZWFMcQ

 

Capture.PNG

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I think you should search for diamonds based on price first then on color clarity. Here's a small tip on searching

Search for D-G color, IF - VS2 clarity, None - Medium fluorescence. Sort them by price lower to highest. And start finding diamonds in that order in different carat categories. And see what you get in your budget. It's wiser to maximize size first within reasonable color clarity range. 

 

Try again. 


Swanstar Diamonds.
http://www.swanstar.com.au
Melbourne, Australia.

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47 minutes ago, Furqan Shafi said:

I think you should search for diamonds based on price first then on color clarity. Here's a small tip on searching

Search for D-G color, IF - VS2 clarity, None - Medium fluorescence. Sort them by price lower to highest. And start finding diamonds in that order in different carat categories. And see what you get in your budget. It's wiser to maximize size first within reasonable color clarity range. 

 

Try again. 

I'm dealing with a specific Jeweller in Dubai - he knows my Budget and is recommending Diamonds based on that.

When you say to maximise size I assume you mean weight - I can maximise size by having a shallower diamond, however as per conversations above that will result in a lesser quality diamond with likely a more pronounced bow tie and less scintillation etc.

Did you see an issue with the shape or cut of the last diamond I posted;

5 hours ago, scoopo16 said:

 

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1 hour ago, scoopo16 said:

I'm dealing with a specific Jeweller in Dubai - he knows my Budget and is recommending Diamonds based on that.

When you say to maximise size I assume you mean weight - I can maximise size by having a shallower diamond, however as per conversations above that will result in a lesser quality diamond with likely a more pronounced bow tie and less scintillation etc.

Did you see an issue with the shape or cut of the last diamond I posted;

 

Yes by size I mean the size category. I say this because instead of 0.90 E Vvs2 you might be able to get a full carat G Vs2. And it would generally have no legible difference, given other things remain same.

You can use the diamond finder on this website and see what you can get for your budget so you know exactly what you can expect within your budget. You may also be able to see videos of the diamonds which tell you much more about the stone than just a certificate. 

About the certificate - there's nothing on that certificate that can tell you how will that diamond look. It only tells you depth and it tells you table size. See it says profile not to actual proportions. That diagram represents nothing. The fact that it says the stone have Excellent polish and Very Good symmetry means nothing much except that according to GIA it has excellent polish and VG symmetry. Even a glass type shallow diamond can have excellent polish and excellent symmetry.

 


Swanstar Diamonds.
http://www.swanstar.com.au
Melbourne, Australia.

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19 minutes ago, Furqan Shafi said:

Yes by size I mean the size category. I say this because instead of 0.90 E Vvs2 you might be able to get a full carat G Vs2. And it would generally have no legible difference, given other things remain same.

You can use the diamond finder on this website and see what you can get for your budget so you know exactly what you can expect within your budget. You may also be able to see videos of the diamonds which tell you much more about the stone than just a certificate. 

About the certificate - there's nothing on that certificate that can tell you how will that diamond look. It only tells you depth and it tells you table size. See it says profile not to actual proportions. That diagram represents nothing. The fact that it says the stone have Excellent polish and Very Good symmetry means nothing much except that according to GIA it has excellent polish and VG symmetry. Even a glass type shallow diamond can have excellent polish and excellent symmetry.

 

I did post a link to a video of the Diamond?

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0-RSRg_qlqE_6i8ebtiZWFMcQ

These videos from this jeweller show 360 degree view of the diamond stand upright, which is good because it allows you to see the top of the diamond face on and see if there are any bow tie etc.

Most other suppliers do a 360 video of the diamond sitting on its side, which means you don’t get the full alignment with the top of the table on the diamond. 

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4 hours ago, scoopo16 said:

which means you don’t get the full alignment with the top of the table on the diamond. 

Which in turn means very little, since what also matters is the presence of any obstruction (e.g. your head between the light source and the diamond) and the angle to lighting. In a light box, where these images are taken, there is so much light coming from all directions and the camera lens is behind the light, so there is no (or very little) "problem" with either of those things...

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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It's extremely difficult to determine based on the the videos you have posted because none of them are done side by side but if you pay attention to the last video, you will notice a couple of things: the table is noticeably smaller creating a smaller window into the bow tie and (and this takes a little squinting) the bow tie area  appears to have a larger number of distinguishable facets and less large lifeless areas.  You might be better served by asking your jeweler to make a video for you with a couple of the top candidates set side by side in a real life setting, as opposed to this clinical grey scale background.


Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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I got a few more videos and photos of this diamond, thinking of locking this in with a platinum halo diamond banded ring (0.40 carat total approx. – Round Brilliant – VS/SI clarity and F/G color) all in cost of AU$7000 including shipping and tax/duty. 

https://share.icloud.com/photos/07Yqtm8LxZTnvF49CwMl9sF_g#Morningside

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0-RSRg_qlqE_6i8ebtiZWFMcQ

On 10/12/2020 at 2:00 PM, scoopo16 said:

 

WhatsApp Image 2020-10-16 at 12.05.43 AM (1).jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2020-10-16 at 12.05.43 AM.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2020-10-16 at 12.05.44 AM.jpeg

Capture.PNG.6ef5127a4096a521dc205241c41302dc.png

thumbnail_image009.jpg

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