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Grobo

Purchased a diamond without realizing 'knots' could be a concern. Any thoughts? [1.20ct I-VS2]

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After spending several months looking at 200-250+ diamonds, I finally pulled the trigger and purchased this diamond:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-9029911

 It was a really hard decision and ultimately I went with the best cut for all of the diamonds in my price range (with limit on VS2 and I). The colour seems good for an I and the inclusions don't seem to be that bad. The table is 58, crown angle 34.5, pavilion angle 40.8, girdle 4.0%, depth 61.3%. 

There is a knot inclusion and I hadn't realized it might be of any concern since I actually couldn't find it when looking at the diamond on James Allen. I posted on pricescope to get a feel for peoples thoughts on the diamond (cut/clarity/color) and someone pointed out the knot so I started reading up on them. The first couple of articles I saw basically said to avoid all knots but the more I read it seems to be a case by case basis...

I just chatted with a gemologist from James Allen and asked them to show me the knot and if it's a concern. They tried for a few minutes to move the diamond around but they told me they couldn't locate the knot to show me. They said the diamond is eye clean and it shouldn't be of concern and they haven't had many complaints about knots before... all of this is confusing and I'm not sure how I never heard of knots being a concern before. I read about inclusions but for a VS2 that looks clean I guess I just assumed no inclusion would be a concern.

I've attached the GIA certificate. If the "Key to Symbols" is supposed to be listed in order of significance to the rating (not sure how true that is), the knot is third on the list. All honest feedback on this diamond would be appreciated. I went back and forth between several diamonds even after narrowing down so I'm really hoping I made the right decision on this one.

cert.jpeg

Capture.PNG

Edited by Grobo

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Hello, welcome to Diamond Review!

It's important to understand what a knot is. Diamonds often contain crystals of diamond or other minerals which are fully included in the larger rough diamond to be turned into a cut stone. When the diamond is cut and polished, some of these inclusions may break through the surface. If the included mineral is "something other than diamond", it is so much softer than the rest that it is typically torn away leaving a cavity; when the inclusion is another diamond, it may do the same and fly off, or it may remain as part of the finished surface of the main stone but as a separate crystal: that's a knot.

Three key points to note:

1. The knot has survived the cutting and polishing. That is a LOT of pressure and very high temperatures. It is extremely unlikely to "come out" and leave a cavity during normal use.

2. The diamond has been graded VS2 by GIA; this means that they (subjectively but expertly) assess that there is no risk to integrity or durability of the stone from its characteristics (including the knot - i.e. it's solidly in its place)

3. As you assumed, the symbols are usually listed in order of importance, which would mean that this knot, even though it's relatively large, has the grain oriented in the same direction as the main crystal and it is not causing any strain

Add to this that it seems quite difficult to locate  (however, be careful: I'm not sure that the person at JA actually had the diamonds in his/her hands, unless you were on a video call and could see what's going on at their end.. so check carefully when it gets to you; a decent loupe is only about $25), and I think you are in a pretty safe place.

The rest of the proportions look absolutely fine. Congratulations!


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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58 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

Hello, welcome to Diamond Review!

It's important to understand what a knot is. Diamonds often contain crystals of diamond or other minerals which are fully included in the larger rough diamond to be turned into a cut stone. When the diamond is cut and polished, some of these inclusions may break through the surface. If the included mineral is "something other than diamond", it is so much softer than the rest that it is typically torn away leaving a cavity; when the inclusion is another diamond, it may do the same and fly off, or it may remain as part of the finished surface of the main stone but as a separate crystal: that's a knot.

Three key points to note:

1. The knot has survived the cutting and polishing. That is a LOT of pressure and very high temperatures. It is extremely unlikely to "come out" and leave a cavity during normal use.

2. The diamond has been graded VS2 by GIA; this means that they (subjectively but expertly) assess that there is no risk to integrity or durability of the stone from its characteristics (including the knot - i.e. it's solidly in its place)

3. As you assumed, the symbols are usually listed in order of importance, which would mean that this knot, even though it's relatively large, has the grain oriented in the same direction as the main crystal and it is not causing any strain

Add to this that it seems quite difficult to locate  (however, be careful: I'm not sure that the person at JA actually had the diamonds in his/her hands, unless you were on a video call and could see what's going on at their end.. so check carefully when it gets to you; a decent loupe is only about $25), and I think you are in a pretty safe place.

The rest of the proportions look absolutely fine. Congratulations!

Thank you very much for posting such a detailed response! That certainly calms my nerves a bit because I thought I had just made a grave error (although they do have a 30 day refund window).

As for the James Allen gemologist, it was one of those live chats where you both see the 360 HD video and their rep can move the Diamond around and zoom/highlight. They highlighted all of the other inclusions (crystals/feathers) but didn't highlight the knot so I asked them to show it to me. The rep moved the Diamond around in different directions for a couple minutes, began typing and then stopped and tried moving it again to a different angle but responded saying they couldn't locate it on the 360 video. Nonetheless, they obviously did not have the diamond in hand so I'll inspect it with a loupe when it arrives.

My main reason for choosing this Diamond over the other options was that the proportions meet both GIA Excellent and AGS Ideal criteria (dead centre on the graph), has an HSA score of 1.3, and I really liked the crown/pavilion angle combo. From what I've researched, the cut is the most important of the 4 C's and can hide some of the negative qualities of colour/clarity, or in the case of a non-ideal cut it can be an anchor on a good color/clarity diamond. 

I guess another thing is that if the Diamond was graded VS2 while having a knot, then the knot must not have been that bad or it would be graded lower. I guess that's why it's third on the list of symbols? I was also looking at the Polish being 'Excellent'.. other similar posts I've seen usually have Polish at VG or lower because of the knot so do you think it being excellent also gives some indication on the knot or is that unrelated?

 

Edited by Grobo

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7 minutes ago, Grobo said:

I guess that's why it's third on the list of symbols?

That's what I was trying to say with my "point 3." above. Yes, it's definitely not a bad knot.

FWIW, I think I have located it in the video; it's on the star facet at 1:30 (between noon and 3 o'clock with the table facing you), but the easiest way to see it is as a "shimmer" in the side view as the video rotates: that's the edge between the knot crystal and the main crystal, and you can see the grain lines there. At least, I think.

This said, the only real way of seeing these things (and assessing whether they are visually bothering you or not, apart from any concern on the integrity, which I hope is addressed to the extent I can from my first post) is to do so in person. A video is not really a good proxy for a real diamond in which you are trying to find an inclusion.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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37 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

That's what I was trying to say with my "point 3." above. Yes, it's definitely not a bad knot.

FWIW, I think I have located it in the video; it's on the star facet at 1:30 (between noon and 3 o'clock with the table facing you), but the easiest way to see it is as a "shimmer" in the side view as the video rotates: that's the edge between the knot crystal and the main crystal, and you can see the grain lines there. At least, I think.

This said, the only real way of seeing these things (and assessing whether they are visually bothering you or not, apart from any concern on the integrity, which I hope is addressed to the extent I can from my first post) is to do so in person. A video is not really a good proxy for a real diamond in which you are trying to find an inclusion.

I think I see what you're talking about near the 1:30, but do you mean the dot that is closer to the centre-right or that area that's right at the edge near the girdle? The GIA map lines up better with the dot but the area near the edge seems more in line with the size of the knot.

You're right that the only way to tell is to look at it in person so I guess I've gotta wait until it comes in. My main concern was with the integrity of the diamond and not so much the visual aspect because I'm already having trouble properly finding it on a 40x magnified video so I doubt it will noticeable to the eye (especially since it's a VS2 so it's supposed to be eye-clean). Knowing that the diamond is subject to a vigorous polish and high temp puts my mind at ease. All-in-all I think I still made the right choice as the diamond has most of the qualities I was looking for (emphasis on cut, with minimum I and VS2). None of the 200-250 diamonds in my range had as good a cut (or if they did, it would be a 1.0ct). Thanks for the info I really appreciate it :)

Edited by Grobo

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It's not going to look like a dot at all. If the external edges were visible it would not have got "excellent" polish (or a VS2 overall clarity). It should look a bit like this:

Graining | gems-inclusions

(the parallel lines "inside" the facet - they are a grain boundary)


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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If that's what it looks like I think I found it (in the exact facet that's shown on the GIA map) between 4:00 and 6:00

firefox_GkvfAhQI69.png

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Very likely! It's possible that JA's supplier has been extra careful, and oriented the stone as in the report; nice of them. You see: you have good eyes, and I know what to look for... together we make a good team. 😉

I've looked at the video again, and I can still see something very similar "higher up" (i.e at 1:30) - either one could be a reflection of the other (or my eye-brain system making something up), which is another reason why it's really important to see these things "live".

Honestly - nothing to worry about, and you got yourself a lovely stone. Congratulations!

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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