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Andi Stahl

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Hello everyone, I have a request for you.
I want to buy an engagement ring and look for the matching Princess or Radiant diamond.
I have been dealing with the topic for a week and have read and understand a lot, but unfortunately no practical experience
how to recognize a diamond that is good value for money and has a great fire.
After countless consultations with the respective dealers, I have now selected the following stones.
I would be so grateful if you would. I am happy to accept a suggestion from you which was not within my scope. My stones found:

1) https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-4189500.htm

2) https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.80-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-8032225

3) https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.83-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-7829090

4) https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.90-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-7884780

5) https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.80-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-7832561

6) https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.73-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-7230021

My budget was actually around $ 2500 for the stone. 
But I'm also ready to go a little higher. If it's cheaper, that's a good thing. 
On the one hand I want the stone to be a certain size or as big as possible, but I don't want to miss the 
wonderful shine and fire. With the local dealers there are the top lines like "a cut above" or "true hearts"
or Astor. Unfortunately, with my budget there is onlya lower carat number available or none at all. 
Hence the attempt to find a beautiful stone with anideal cut, symmetry and polish. FOr sure I like to have them in a more white color like E, F, G.My favorite so far 
is No:

1) I like that for the ct the dimension is nearby 0.5mm (4,92mmX4.92mmx3.62), so a bit bigger than the other 0.73ct I have listed. + the  overall impression on Whiteflash is great to me.

 

2) Thats the latest one I have looked at and blocked it at JA. Wondering a bit thta with 0.8ct the dimension is nearby similar than 1).

 

Anyhow, I would appreciate your help ans suggestions on my search. I need to give a feedback to WF and JA until Monday next week.

It would be very nice if you can help me here.

 

THank you so much

 

Andreas from Stuttgart, Germany

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Hi Andreas - it's year end, and it's the weekend... be patient! In addition, you have posted something formatted very strangely and nearly unreadable on a mobile phone because of formatting, which doesn't help.

On 12/28/2019 at 4:53 PM, Andi Stahl said:

good value for money and has a great fire

Why focusing on fire specifically? But in any case, there is no reliable way of telling you what has "great fire" except for direct observation. A good comparative video is your next best option, but the two vendors you have mentioned won't normally do that, and in any case can't do it with the other vendor's stones

On 12/28/2019 at 4:53 PM, Andi Stahl said:

I want to buy an engagement ring and look for the matching Princess or Radiant diamond.

You are comparing apples with pears in terms of looks; radiants and princess cuts look quite different (well, at least to me they do). You can bet your last euro that the Whiteflash princess is going to be cut at a standard at least as good as the best ones on James Allen (in fact, almost certainly better than them), but if you like a radiant... Whiteflash doesn't cut them. Then again, you only picked princess cuts for your "shortlist", so I'm confused as to what you are actually looking for.

Assuming that princess cut it is, I'm still very unclear as to what is most important for you. I'll assume it's not price, since prices for your shortlist go from $3180 to $2350, which is nearly a 40% difference.

Colour and clarity within your shortlist will largely look the same, especially in isolation and without a loupe. Yes, you may be able to tell the difference between D and G when they are loose and next to each other, but when they are both set in a ring and by themselves they will both look very white. Same for VS2 and VVS2: without a loupe, you won't know which is which, especially once set.

Size-wise, there is only one stone that will look larger than the others, and that's the 0.83 F/VS2. The 0.90 might also look a little bit larger than the rest, but I don't see the point of considering it if the main priority is size: it faces up smaller than the 0.83 and it costs $400 more.

The rest will pretty much look the same size (0.1 mm is enough to tell the difference only if they are unset and next to each other), so the 0.83 wins that particular competition.

When it comes to cut, the 0.733 is - ahem - a cut above the rest. Especially the 0.83, and especially if fire is the criterion - the 0.83 seems to have a fairly flat crown, which usually means less fire. The 0.733 is also the second cheapest, and as far as I can judge from the video the cheaper 0.73 D/VS2 is not as well cut either. So the 0.733 from Whiteflash wins this one. None of the others are badly cut, but none seem to be as good as - and they cost more.

So, for size, 0.83; for cut 0.733. Cut for me wins, especially given that the difference in size is not huge, and a better cut will be more visible.

Hope this helps...

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Hi David, thanks for your advice and please excuse the confusion.  

I am generally interested in a Princess or Radiant.  I have, as you correctly interpreted, meanwhile focused on the Princess.  Yes, the information you give me regarding color and clarity is exactly what I need!  Thanks for that.  

And the quality of Whiteflash seems to be confirmed everywhere, including you.  What I was trying to do with this post was to find a larger stone that had at least a similar “fire / sparkling” effect to that of Whiteflash.  Do you or someone else in this forum have a suggestion for a larger stone which, as you say, still looks colorless and  has by eye no visual  inclusions but has a good fire with max for 3kUSD? Cheaper is very welcomed 

My listed don't seem to represent this.  I have now listed a few stones that are slightly larger. All were selected with ideal cut, symmetry and polish:

1) https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.90-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-7884780.  

2) https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.93-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-8088713.  (> measures will be a jump but I guess that the table is too big/flat to allow fire?)

3)https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.90-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-8251740 ( I‘ve tried to avoid that amount but if it’s worth it ?!)

Another option at Whiteflash is stone:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-4133765.htm with very nice measures. But color is F and above 3kUSD

So by now I have a recommendation for Whiteflash 0.733ct. Is one of the other stones able to change your recommendation? I‘m also open for other stones which I was unable to find.

Thank you so much David 

best-

Andreas

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Andi Stahl said:

What I was trying to do with this post was to find a larger stone that had at least a similar “fire / sparkling” effect to that of Whiteflash.

There are two "problems" with this:

1. Cutting a diamond with high(er) precision and (more) exacting symmetry costs time and money. You largely get what you pay for, especially at these price levels - the difference between WF and JA here is a few hundred dollars, the rest being like-for-like.

2. Especially with princess cuts, there is no authoritative cut grade established* which means the only way of figuring out whether a stone is well cut or not is to see it. Not all stones have video and/or reflector images, and comparing across those that do is difficult because they have been taken in different ways. There may well be stones which are as well cut as those at Whiteflash (or Brian Gavin, or Cut By Infinity, or...) which are a little cheaper, but finding them takes time and effort.

(* The AGS cut grade system is authoritative and technically excellent (in my opinion), but there are so few AGS-graded stones out there, and the majority of these from a premium cut vendor anyway, that it is almost pointless to search for them outside those vendors' inventories.)

From that point of view, by the way, it's worth remembering that James Allen (and many others - I'm not calling out JA specifically on this) calls the cut of their non-rounds "ideal", but they don't have (or at least don't publish) a good standard of reference for doing so. They like the cut, and call it ideal; don't like it and call it excellent. Someone else may have a different idea of what a well cut stone looks like, and I definitely have a different idea of what a cut grade looks like!

I think bringing more stones into the mix is only going to add to your confusion; you need to sort out if the just-below-5 mm size of a 0.75 - 0.80 well cut stone is enough for you, or if you definitely need higher. Second, look at your budget and decide if you can go higher and if so by how much; with diamonds there's always going to be one that's just a little bit better and a little bit more expensive. Third, if budget and size - assuming a really nice cut - don't fit, consider lowering clarity or colour: most SI1 will be eye-clean in the size you are looking at, and most H or even I stones will look white; clearly if you bring clarity down but colour and size up... price may well stay where it was or even increase (e.g. the 0.834).

FWIW, although the 0.834 is going to be visibly larger, I prefer the cut of the 0.733; if size is such a huge problem, a well built halo will make the centre stone look much bigger and it will cost less. I can't get to any of the JA stones by copy-pasting the links (there is some weird formatting added by whatever you are using, and I don't have the time to strip it out), but I doubt any are as well cut as the Whiteflash stones; JA has a premium collection for those ("True Hearts"), and even the True Hearts are not as finely detailed in my view.

I'm about to go out for the rest of the day; I will respond to any further posts when I return late this afternoon (CET).


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Hi Davide,

this is real help what you do ! Thanks for taking the time to write all this that detailed to me ! I have chosen the 0.733 ct. There was the hope that.... bigger etc, but I also compared the 0.1mm difference and draw that on a paper and, as you said, was hard to see the difference. I was then blended by the bits of more ct, the color and clarity even I've read this before online that it is not that visible for the eye. You brought be back in the right position.

Thank you for being part to find a great gift for an incredibly great and loving person. THANK YOU

 

Andreas 

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Hi Andreas, you are most welcome! I think that 0.733 is particularly well cut - so double congratulations on finding a nice stone and an even nicer person to give it to.

Best wishes for the New Year!


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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