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khartleroad

Edwin Novel

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Does anyone have any experience buying a ring from Edwin Novel?  It seems that their reviews are overwhelmingly positive but from this Forum I understand that GGS Certified is not reliable.  Does anyone have first hand experience with them?

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I don't know them - which means nothing one way or the other. I am a potential competitor - which may influence my view. Their Terms and Conditions of sale seem to be quite generous and favourable to the consumer. I am however very sceptical when people "discount" their items by 75%

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You are also right that a GGS report (which BTW is not a certificate) is not reliable. That makes 2 strokes again them without doing very much other than opening their website...

Out of curiosity - how did you land on this particular jeweller? An online search for "engagement rings online" returns over 100 million results, and their name is not on the first 10 pages.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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I think it popped up on a Google Ad, but I had also done a Google Search and was looking for Reviews.  Again, I am skeptical of Google or any other reviews as I believe they are stacked.  Then in looking and comparing I like some of the settings and the price based on my filter criteria seemed reasonable to me.  I had tried some of the recommended sites like Blue Nile and found them TOO complicated and confusing and I did not feel they were upfront in the way they broke every item out so it wasn't until you had spent a LOT of time that you had an idea of the price.  I will check out your site.

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I share your skepticism of reviews and Google but I’m even more skeptical on unknown review sites like reviews.io, the one they’re using. 

 

I’m not going to comment either way on a piece I haven’t seen but I’m curious, what we’re your filter criteria that led to this?


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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3 minutes ago, khartleroad said:

the price based on my filter criteria seemed reasonable to me

Be careful - the fact that someone calls a stone (say) G/VS2/excellent cut is no evidence that it is any of these three things...

13 minutes ago, khartleroad said:

I did not feel they were upfront in the way they broke every item out so it wasn't until you had spent a LOT of time that you had an idea of the price

That's interesting - I would argue the opposite: by bundling things together you have no idea of what you are paying for. Especially with relatively small diamonds, where the cost of metalwork is comparable to the cost of the stone, understanding what you are paying for what is the only way of understanding if you are paying a fair price. However, I accept that I am far more "technical" than most consumers.

 


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Just now, denverappraiser said:

I share your skepticism of reviews and Google but I’m even more skeptical on unknown review sites like reviews.io, the one they’re using. 

 

I’m not going to comment either way on a piece I haven’t seen but I’m curious, what we’re your filter criteria that led to this?

 

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I acknowledge that I am not technical or a diamond or jewelry expert by any stretch of the imagination being a geologist by education I do not claim to be a gemologist. So I try to supplement my lack of knowledge with research and information gathering. Hence coming here to see if anyone had a personal negative experience or positive on for that matter.  To my jewelry is much like picking a partner, you like what you like, what looks "good" to your own eyes.  I had choose to sacrifice clarity (VS2) for color (G).  I wanted 1 ct center stone and just like the "look" of the 3 stone set.  Bottom line, I want to know if people believe they get what they think they ordered from this site.  Are they satisfied with their purchase. 

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Well, let me put it this way - here is a list of over 600 stones corresponding in their claimed attributes (G/VS2/Excellent cut/1.0 carats). Every single one diamond is more expensive than the ring set you chose.

https://www.diamondreview.com/diamonds?sortOrder=price&sortDesc=0&fShape=Rnd&fCaratLo=1.00&fCaratHi=1.05&fColorLo=G&fColorHi=G&fClarityLo=VS2&fClarityHi=VS2&fCutLo=exc&fCutHi=exc&fDepthLo=0.0&fDepthHi=100.0&fTableLo=0.0&fTableHi=100.0&fSymLo=&fSymHi=poor&fPolLo=&fPolHi=poor&fCulLo=&fCulHi=vlarge&fFlrLo=&fFlrHi=vstrong&fPriceLo=0&fPriceHi=1000000000&adv=1

This is before you take into account the gold, making and finishing two rings, the other diamonds and the work to set the stone - none of which is free and some of which can be quite expensive.

Other fact: the gross margin of Blue Nile is around 20%, and it has been at that level for more than a decade. The eras of 200-300% cost mark-up in engagement ring jewellery are long gone. The so-called "retail price" of $22,000 is not supported by what the market charges; even Tiffany would sell you something of those characteristics for less.

Put the two things together, and it is clear that whatever they are selling is NOT a G/VS2/Excellent cut/1.0 carat. Where it fails that standard is impossible to say without seeing the diamond (and it may well be different from one ring to the next - what you are shown is a CAD rendering, not a photo of a specific item).

8 minutes ago, khartleroad said:

To my jewelry is much like picking a partner, you like what you like, what looks "good" to your own eyes.

Absolutely, and I don't think you'll find anyone of the regulars here arguing otherwise; however while some things may look very good it doesn't mean they are being priced fairly. Nobody here is criticising your choice of design; we are (well, I am) pointing out that the numbers don't stack up.

9 minutes ago, khartleroad said:

I had choose to sacrifice clarity (VS2) for color (G).

Why do you see VS2 as a sacrifice? Pretty much the totality of properly graded VS2 and a vast, vast majority of SI1 are totally eye-clean in a 1 carat stone. Getting a higher clarity grade means you pay for rarity, but not for anything you will ever see.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Very good point about the difference in clarity and what can actually be seen by the naked eye.  I was looking at "sacrificing" clarity for color which is more obvious to the naked eye.  I appreciate the listing of diamonds from Diamond Review, but I assume that is ONE seller of diamonds, not the only seller of diamonds.  There has to be some variance in the market price based on seller, not different than any other commodity or product. You are making very good points, but isn't ANYTHING worth what someone is willing to pay for it? I realize that is not the actual ring but a CAD representation, it is not realistic to customize a diamond by size, cut, color and clarity and have a "picture" of it magically appear.  

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1 minute ago, khartleroad said:

I assume that is ONE seller of diamonds, not the only seller of diamonds.

It's a dozen or so of the largest "internet based" diamond retailers. Diamond Review per se does not sell diamonds; it sells advertising space to diamond retailers. Most diamonds are actually owned by wholesalers who will sell them through whichever retail channel happens to be able to place them - you will often find the same diamond advertised by different retailers at slightly different prices.

Also, you will see that there is a very significant range in price in the diamonds listed there; the most expensive ones are at well above $8,000 and the lowest ones are just above 5,000 - that is due partly to the characteristics of the diamond (G/VS2/Excellent doesn't cover everything that has an impact on price), partly to the seller and partly to the vagaries of the history of each individual stone. The point is that ALL of them are significantly above the cost of the ring set we are discussing; none are priced below. You are welcome to try this on any other listing engine, and you will struggle to find a 1 carat round GIA/AGS graded G/VS2 Excellent cut being priced below 5,000.

Just to prevent one argument that most (dishonest) sellers will put forward that "GIA/AGS are expensive and that's why diamonds with those lab reports cost more", a GIA or AGS report for a 1 carat diamond costs about $100, and other labs still charge for their services.

13 minutes ago, khartleroad said:

isn't ANYTHING worth what someone is willing to pay for it?

That's one of the definitions of value, but you have to make a choice here:

either what we are talking about is a totally unique product, with no close substitutes/replacements (say a painting by Picasso - though someone would argue that another painting by Picasso or a Monet or a Jackson Pollock or a Leonardo are substitutes), in which case there is no point in worrying about such things as colour and clarity grades - but there is plenty of point in worrying about having a CAD rendering as opposed to many, detailed photographs of the specific item. Would you buy a Picasso on the basis of "this is a photo of a Picasso painting, which may or may not be the one we ship"? Probably not, right? 

OR, what we are talking about is a product with "some" uniqueness but also some commodity-like attributes, in which case "value" is also relative to the prices being charged for similar products. You may pay $100,000 for "a car", but for it to be a fair price it's more likely to be a Mercedes or a Porsche; a Ford at $100,000 would need to be a pretty special one. A Ford Focus for $100,000 is definitely on the expensive side, and if you decide to buy mine at $120,000 I'm very happy, but it doesn't make $120,000 a fair price for a Ford Focus, even if you really like the colour.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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25 minutes ago, khartleroad said:

it is not realistic to customize a diamond by size, cut, color and clarity and have a "picture" of it magically appear

It is very realistic to have real images of the diamonds you sell... and of the rings you sell. Plenty of vendors do that.

Unfortunately, jewellery has the bad habit of being quite difficult to photograph well, and of usually not looking quite as good when in hugely magnified photos as it does at natural scale on somebody's hand, especially if the finish isn't the best because of cost constraints.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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