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Chick21

Oval Diamond

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Thoughts and advice on the diamonds below? No GIA certificate from London Jeweller - Vashi.

Oval 1.52ct, G colour , VS1 - super ideal cut. £12,765,00

Circle 1.50 ct, F colour, SI1 - super ideal cut. £14,630,00.

The circular one had two visible black dots and a linear knot inclusion when inspected using a lupe.

I couldn’t see much on the oval.

 

B260AB71-F660-4AF3-A0A8-D362C4DA588F.jpeg

02F21624-9707-44C7-8085-D76F98205F3C.jpeg

BBACDA25-EB94-46B4-B7BB-84CA409D3580.jpeg

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At those prices I would expect there to be an independent lab report... not least because you have really very little information otherwise. What do they mean by "super ideal cut"? (And for that matter, what do they mean with F or G and SI1 or VS1?)

Prices are at the high end for an internet retailer if the descriptions are right (i.e. matching GIA standards for colour and clarity, and top quality cut - which is a bit of a can of worms in and of itself on ovals) - I am assuming the prices quoted above include 20% VAT. Vashi has expensive retail premises in the centre of London, which makes me think their descriptions aren't exactly spot on, since I would expect significantly higher prices to cover their overheads. And if that oval is a G either your camera's white balance is off by miles or I'm Spongebob Squarepants.

Unless you have reason to trust the retailer, don't.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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I asked for GIA report, they said certifications they have in place is in-house. This was viewed in their London Selfridges Store. Price quoted includes VAT. What would you judge the oval colour to be based on the above? Clearly I don’t seem to have a good judgement in person as I’ve not seen enough to judge correctly?
I did look online at 77diamonds.com which has GIA certificate links (GIA.edu) - would this be a better choice? This is without setting, but concerned without viewing.

9AD127F2-16C7-4C45-B83D-88E7B4F8C5E0.jpeg

2BB73D3E-9B82-493B-8805-686983163B14.png

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The whole point of a lab report is to get an independent third party to express their unbiased view on several parameters; in-house reports cannot do that. I haven't seen enough "Vashi" in house stones (I haven't seen any, as far as I know) and their associated reports to say whether they are reliable or not; Tiffany's in-house grades are quite good, but other jewellers aren't, and by default the answer is "don't trust unless you have a reason to do so".

Grading colour from photos is an impossible task, more so when the photos are taken with an unknown camera in an unknown environment, but a correctly graded G should not show colour face up; that one looks from the photo more like a K. 

The other stone might be a better choice, but with ovals it's very difficult to say anything about cut without seeing them (or at the very least getting several good photos and preferably video). At the very least here you are guaranteed colour and clarity are graded to a high and consistent standard. What are their return conditions? Most internet-based vendors will allow generous return windows with no penalty.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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I second everything Davide has said above.  In this day and age, it is probably harder to find an uncertified stone than a certified one which begs the question, why would any high street jeweler offer an expensive stone without a grading report.  The second oval you have attached would only be better because there is GIA backup but it still does not mean much in terms of what the stone looks like.  As Davide says, with oval you really need to see the stone itself, either in person or in video.  From my own 30+ years of experience, an oval with a 59.7% depth is likely too shallow to help minimize the bow tie effect present in every oval.  This is a darker area around the center of the stone where the depth is shallow and the faceting not as dense.

Another question I would ask is about the need for an IF stone.  The vast majority of VS2 graded stones are perfectly clean to the naked eye, so the sweet spot in terms of value is in the VS2, VS1 and eventually VVS2 clarity range.  Some would argue that most SI1 stones are clean to the naked eye as well, and mostly I would agree with that, but there are some SI1 stones that are not.  So why spend the money of Internally Flawless unless this is something particularly important to you.  It will not give you a better looking stone.


Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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Thanks davidelevi and LaurentGeorge.

They have a 30 day return policy and also has the option of buying and checking in store.

I could make out SI1 issues in store but could not with the VS1.

The IF was selected as it hit the sweet spot in specs:

What oval depth range would you recommend in your experience?

see picture from the video:

547F4050-FDC7-4E66-8270-2E2AA2E7131E.png.42e32b884fd822c3c7965b9b969d685e.png

E73FD80A-7F00-46A2-92CF-7E7AFAE949B7.jpeg

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There is no real sweet spot and the image above is what I like to refer to as an X-ray image.  It shows you what is inside the stone but not what the stone actually looks like.

 

This is an image I took show 3 very well cut oval stones in a more life like setting, not inside a totally white box.  The bow tie is most evident in A and least in B.  C has a very large table and gets a little washed out.  When scanning through lists of stones, there is no "ideal" or sweet spot, but there are more favorable combination which I tend to gravitate to.  Depths in the 62 to 66% range and tables in the 54 to 60 range. But not all combinations within those ranges are necessarily desirable.  Length to width proportions are important as well.  1.46 is rather on the longer side.  My customers tend to select +/- 1.35:1 ratios for the shape appeal.1755381956_1000x72-251hvs1v252gvs1v250gvs2b-.jpg.9c28ce98ebbb522f9551bb1262f3318e.jpg


Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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I would likely end up with b - there seem to be bits in A and C?

another one below based on your figures:

B84F8690-76D2-4971-9B83-A0A5EE248B28.png

5FB3C0A7-2975-4DA2-BCDB-4DE1126812FF.png

Edited by Chick21
Change mind

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What you're looking for is not on the GIA document. Cut is not even part of the GIA analysis. Mostly that comes from looking at the stone. ASET images are helpful if taken in a consistent sort of way.  Mind you, there are no red flags on that report, just that what you want isn't there. 


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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