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Opinion on this 1.85 ct, RB, G, VVS2


SparkleTastic
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Good afternoon. I am hoping to get some expert opinions on this stone, which is a contender for an upgrade to my current 1.01 ct RB.  As  noted above, the stone is 1.85 ct, RB, G, VVS2.  Measurements, fluor., etc. are below.  Any input is greatly appreciated!  Thank you!  

Measurements
7.83 - 7.87 x 4.86 mm

printimages.jsp?IMG_TYPE=PROPIMG&IMG_NO1=338158DE3DD21EECF57392BB33F68131

printimages.jsp?IMG_TYPE=PLOTIMG&IMG_NO1=338158DE3DD21EECF57392BB33F68131

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This stone looks like a winner.  I really cannot say anything would be a potential problem.  If I had to be hyper-critical, I would question the need for a VVS rather than getting a slightly larger stone with a VS clarity, but that's me really looking for something to say. 😉

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16 hours ago, davidelevi said:

Thank you, all!  I went ahead and ordered this one since the color and clarity far exceeded what I expected to find in my size and price range.  My current stone was purchased on a whim (engaged and married within 3-4 hours in Vegas 10 years ago).  No regrets, but the stone purchase was done without forethought or research, so I am sure this one will be amazing compared to what I currently have.  

  @davidelevi, this stone is actually one of the ones listed in your comps.  Priced at $16,900.

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2195260920

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Quick question. I am considering putting a hold on this stone as a back up in case the one I've ordered doesn't meet my expectations IRL (the trouble with buying sight unseen).  It is priced a bit lower, but my guess is that the one I've ordered is better diamond?  But I am happy to put a hold on this one if in your opinion it's a superior...my priority is cut above everything, then color, then clarity.  Thanks for your input!

image.thumb.png.b7d84ff37d771623a50a035573f19bb0.png

 
 
 
 
 
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Nothing wrong with putting a hold on a stone but I don't expect you will have any issues with the one you have ordered.  This one will also be stunning.  The difference between G and H will be virtually indistinguishable once set and on her hand.  The VS2 should not be visible, so again, indistinguishable from the VVS.  The 0.5° on the crown will not make a difference as it is within the margin of error of that measurement to begin with (that angle is an average of several measurements taken all around the girdle). 

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7 minutes ago, LaurentGeorge said:

Nothing wrong with putting a hold on a stone but I don't expect you will have any issues with the one you have ordered.  This one will also be stunning.  The difference between G and H will be virtually indistinguishable once set and on her hand.  The VS2 should not be visible, so again, indistinguishable from the VVS.  The 0.5° on the crown will not make a difference as it is within the margin of error of that measurement to begin with (that angle is an average of several measurements taken all around the girdle). 

Thanks so much.  Appreciate your input.  Will post my ring once it arrives, along with my current ring for comparison.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm back with photos!  Though I am using an iPhone, so they aren't the best quality.  I am thrilled with the stone and it seems to perform beautifully!  Below are a few pics of my 1.85 ct upgrade and my original 1.01 ct center stone ring (purchased on a whim with no research, so not a great diamond).

I have some questions/observations about scope images and light leakage....I know the crown angle at 36 degrees is a bit steep and since my stone did not come with any scope images, it seems there is no way to determine if it is "leaky".  I inquired with several local appraisers and jewelers about getting scope images for my peace of mind, but none of them could provide.  So I find the concept of light leakage confusing...it seems that it can only be identified in scope images.  If that is the case, it doesn't seem like it should be much of a factor since it is hard to determine (if not impossible) IRL (without scope images)????  Also, if determining light leakage is so important, why is it so difficult for me to get these images from local appraisers or jewelers???  And it seems near impossible to send a stone to AGS for a report with images, whereas apparently it is quite easy to send AGS rated stones (or any stone for that matter) to GIA for a report.  What gives?!?  The cynic in me tends to think the whole scope image thing is a gimmick to push the sale of these imaging tools and/or AGS rated stones over GIA?!?  

Would love to hear your feedback!  Thanks!

1.85 ct, GIA Triple Ex, G color, VVS2 clarity, 1.8 HCA:

UpgradeA.jpg.3ed6b36c37c9b7f7acca7fbaefa99cd3.jpgUpgradeB.jpg.88906f8036c8ff18232f12bae95a614c.jpgUpgradeC.jpg.675f498a12d26069a2ddc22bd6559d2e.jpgUpgradeC1.jpg.cb387da8960a2ee8122939e9823a18c8.jpg

 

1.01, GIA Good/VG/VG, I color, SI1 clarity, 4.8 HCA:

UpradeD.jpg.bed4f25f60af5868ecab4d4200e6c597.jpg

 

UpgradeD.jpg.57df242ff91f88ee5b7746abd40b5ac3.jpg

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"Leakage" is fairly ill defined, which accounts for some (or much) of the confusion. I would say that while "scientific" measurement and comparison across stones of various types of "leakage" requires reflector images, if there were anything untoward with your stone you'd see it. In the images there is nothing to suggest any major form of "leakage" - whether in the form of windowing, non-uniform reflection or major light obstruction (assuming the iPhone's focusing distance is ~ 30-50 cm).

Excellent photos, BTW!!! 

To the "lab" point: I'm not sure it is a conspiracy - GIA could not be seen to endorse methodologies that originate in one of it's main competitors, no matter what the merit of reflector images and ray-tracing may be, and GIA decided relatively early on to discard reflector analysis as part of its cut grading methodology.

AGS does not accept stone submissions directly from the public, but only through its network of associates; it does make for a slightly more complex process than with GIA, but there are hundreds of associates in the US; it should not be a problem to get an AGS report if you want one - however it will require (as would another GIA report) removing the stone from the ring.

If what you want is an impartial analysis of your stone's optical performance, think about using an independent appraiser instead since it may well be cheaper and certainly will be faster; Neil (@denverappraiser on this forum) is an AGS affiliate and (hyper)qualified to conduct these analyses to AGS standard; I think he would also be able to arrange for the removing and resetting of the stone.

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The history of using reflectors to evaluate diamonds goes back to the Okudascope way back in the 70s. The ASET at AGS is a relatively recent addition. In any case, Davide is right that GIA despises innovation unless it’s THEIR innovation and it’s led to some peculiar decisions. They don’t use or even acknowledge reflectors of any kind.

 

ASET scopes are cheap and easy to use, as are Idealscopes and a few other reflector based tools. The tricky part is taking the photographs.  It’s led to a peculiar problem in appraiser circles. Several of the online dealers, in particular, James Allen, are REALLY good at this and have invested tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment to get it just right. They have trained customers to look at those pictures in tiny detail to decide what to buy. It gives them a competitive advantage because you can really only get them on stones that come from them. Put bluntly, they’re trying to prevent exactly what you’re trying to do. Meanwhile, the primary job of an appraiser is to document what you have, not so much to help you decide what’s better than what.  It’s like the difference between a mug shot and a glamour shot of the same girl.  The result is that it’s a can-of-worms for appraisers to get into the whole reflector question and most just avoid it.  FWIW, I have all of these tools and yes, I’m happy to talk to clients about how to analyze things (I charge by the hour, not by the piece for this sort of work, which is another part of the issue).

 

AGS lab won’t take work from the public but they will from anyone in the trade, whether they’re AGS members or not.  Any jeweler and any appraiser can do it if they want. Basically, this is for the same reason. They don’t want to get into explaining how to analyze and compare things because that’s the job of the retailer and it sucks up a lot of time. If they make you go through a reseller, it makes for a smoother process.  
 


Be aware as well that there are two types of ASET pictures.  Photographs and images generated from scans. They aren't the same.  Very few retailers and/or appraisers are prepared to do this for you. AGS lab uses scans. JA, Whiteflash, and most of the other retailers who take this seriously use photographs.     

Edited by denverappraiser
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Thanks so much!  This is all very fascinating.  When I started my journey, I knew I wanted the best cut I could get in my budget.  Little did I know the can of worms I would open.  The whole "GIA vs AGS" certification thing just scratches the surface.  It is a lot to take in and I can see why many people would rather not deal with it and head to their local brick and mortar to get sold what they are told is great diamond.  All this knowledge is a double edged sword...on one hand, I feel very confident about the performance of my diamond based on my due diligence, on the other hand I know full good and well that there are many diamonds out there that are far superior.  Ah...if only money were no object. LOL  Thank you all for your input.

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Great pictures !!!

Davide and Neil covered the vast majority of the points very well.  When it comes to your last statement that

1 hour ago, SparkleTastic said:

 I know full good and well that there are many diamonds out there that are far superior. 

...your stone is in the top performing stones out there.  You can rest assured it likely performs in the top couple of percent of all stones.  The last couple of percent could potentially cost you an extra chunk of change and the net result is that you would get a stone which would look identical to the one you have.  That extra little bit of perfection is indistinguishable to the naked eye and it takes computer analyses to determine the difference.  I think you did extremely well and there is no need to second guess your choice.

 

Congrats!

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