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Cwinn

Is this SI2?

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I just bought this for my whife. Im not an expert on diamonds, but trusted the seller who told me it is SI2 -H coulor. Today i noticed a Big Black carbon spot - is this okay on SI2?

 

tried to get a photo of the spot 

 

its 0,7 ct

SI2

H

BF32D5F7-BB47-495C-88C3-8886961E8D29.jpeg

Edited by Cwinn

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It's essentially impossible to grade a stone based on a picture and if the ring is dirty or the picture is not totally focused and zoomed in, it's entirely futile.  Was the stone graded by a reliable independent lab like the GIA or AGS?  Or did you rely solely on the vendor's description?  In his defense, SI2 imperfections can be and often are visible to the naked eye, but they should not be blatantly obvious.  Had you seen the stone before purchasing it?  To me, in this picture, this does not look like a new ring, but that could just be the photography.  Try cleaning the ring and putting down on a white surface.  Then take your camera/phone and stabilize it on the table and zoom in.  Take a few shots until you get one that clearly shows what you are referring to.

  • Thanks 1

Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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1 hour ago, LaurentGeorge said:

Take your camera/phone and stabilize it on the table and zoom in.  Take a few shots until you get one that clearly shows what you are referring to.

+1 to all of Laurent's comments above; one additional suggestion for photography: in addition to/instead of zooming, crop the image so that it takes on little more than the diamond. A good quality image taking a quarter of an HD screen is ~1000 x 500 pixels; that's a small fraction of a modern camera/phone's sensor resolution, so don't be afraid to zoom in and crop.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Hey mate - unfortunately there are quite a few big black centre inclusions out there. This pic is a similar carat weight to yours - same colour - same GIA SI2 clarity grade. As you can see, it's a fairly big black table inclusion.

If it is an inclusion in yours, you should have been made aware before purchasing.

If yours is a similar inclusion, ask yourself a few questions:

  • Will you (she) care? - Many people actually don't care as long as it doesn't detract from the overall beauty of the ring.
  • Did you over pay? - look around to see what else you could get for the same money (make sure you're comparing apples-with-apples)
  • Or was it priced really 'cheap' compared to other similar diamonds and you thought you were getting a 'bargain'? - there are plenty of nice SI2s out there, so if this one was way 'cheaper', maybe you got exactly what you paid for. 
  • What does the vendor have to say? Was this pointed out to you pre-sale? - Most legit retailers would make sure you were aware before buying, as this is exactly the sort of thing that has customers marching back into the shop soon after purchasing

Good luck - hope this helps

 

 

 

visible SI2.jpg


Australian Diamond Network

www.AustralianDiamondNetwork.com.au

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Its hard for me to get at photo thats shows the diamond properly, but i managed to get the Black spot in the photo - the other Black spots on the photos is just the picture - i only see one Black inclusion in the Diamond - marked with red.

 

Don’t know why I did not see it at first, but now it is so visable. I still Think it is a very beautiful diamond/ring, I just wanted to know if the seller told me a wrong clarity. The ring is new, and made by the seller himself, as he works as an goldsmith and sells rings on a private base that he made on his sparetime. 

I paid about 1500 USD - Compared to shops here i Denmark, it was very cheap.

thanks for all of your replys. 

 

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Based on the photos, I'd say it's more likely to be an SI2 than anything else; if it is a diamond and the colour and weight are 0.70/H you definitely didn't overpay - whether you have something that you like is a completely different question.

Unfortunately human eye/brain systems learn to see things, and inclusions do tend to become more visible once you know they are there.


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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I like the diamond very much, I just read somewhere that SI2 and up are eye clean, that gave me a scare 

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No, if you want a "guaranteed" eye clean you would need to look at VS1 and above.

In a size 0.50 up to a carat/1.50 ct I'd say that most I1 are not eye clean, many but not most SI2 are eye clean, most SI1 are eye clean, and very very few VS2 are not eye clean, but you'll notice that there are plenty of weasel words in that statement... :)


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Yes, definitely - but you still got a very good price, if it is an H/0.70! You could pay $1500 just for the setting...


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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I agree with Davide.  Based on the photos, SI2 is likely a fair grade.  Old euros and old mine cuts are not as brilliant as modern cuts and imperfections tend to be more visible in these cuts. 

The only thing that bothers me is the fact that you did not seem to know it was there before bringing it home.  The jeweler should have made you aware of the imperfection.  Diamonds love oils and dirt and when they are not at their cleanest, it is easier to see imperfections.  The ring was probably very clean in the store and there was probably a multitude of spotlights on the ceiling which adds more sparkle to everything.  You need to decide if you can live with the imperfection and consider your jeweler's return policy before making a final determination.

  • Sad 1

Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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1 hour ago, LaurentGeorge said:

I agree with Davide.  Based on the photos, SI2 is likely a fair grade.  Old euros and old mine cuts are not as brilliant as modern cuts and imperfections tend to be more visible in these cuts. 

The only thing that bothers me is the fact that you did not seem to know it was there before bringing it home.  The jeweler should have made you aware of the imperfection.  Diamonds love oils and dirt and when they are not at their cleanest, it is easier to see imperfections.  The ring was probably very clean in the store and there was probably a multitude of spotlights on the ceiling which adds more sparkle to everything.  You need to decide if you can live with the imperfection and consider your jeweler's return policy before making a final determination.

 

It was not bought in a shop, but private from a seller who works at a shop. I will keep the ring, just wanted to know if SI2 was an option with naked eye spots, and now I know it is. 

 

And yes, the seller should have pointet out the Black spot, and told me it was part of the price, I will let him know. 

 

Anyway, a new 14k gold ring with 0,7 +10X0,01 diamond, special made for my whife, who loves the ring - im still very happy with the deal

 

Btw. How big should a diamond be before it is worth something. I took a 14 k gold ring with one 0,02 diamond - the would only pay for the gold nothing for the diamond? 🤨🤷‍♂

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'Worth something'?  Are you now talking about resale markets?  That's a totally different question.  Most of the pawn shops and scrap buyers around here won't buy a stone below half a carat. A few won't buy below a carat.  It is, of course, their choice.  They are under no obligation to bid no matter what is offered to them.

 

 

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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17 hours ago, Cwinn said:

Btw. How big should a diamond be before it is worth something. I took a 14 k gold ring with one 0,02 diamond - the would only pay for the gold nothing for the diamond? 🤨🤷‍♂

As Neil said, in terms of reselling different shops will apply different standards/requirements, but in general melée (below 0.10/0.15 ct) is practically worthless for scrap/resale unless you have huge quantities of it. Over 0.70-1.00 carat in general is resalable (well or poorly - different question). In between... it depends, but in most cases it is easier to get some money for the stone as part of a complete piece of jewellery than as scrap (which doesn't mean it's easy to sell, BTW!)

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Smaller diamonds are not worthless but you have to consider the process. Small stones or melees are usually purchased by jewelry manufacturers in specific sizes for the pieces they are making.  These are not stones that are purchased individually by their customers. So when you go to sell these little stones, the jeweler has to consider the cost of the labor to remove them from the setting, the probability of some being damaged in the process and the resulting odd number of sizes he/she may not have any use for. Remember that a large portion of the original cost of the setting is the labor that went into making the ring. This is why settings, with or without smaller stones in them are not worth more than scrap at resale. 


Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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Think of the parts on your junker car.  There are plenty of individual parts and pieces that are actually are worth a decent amount of money to the right customer. The junkyard may or may not succeed in selling that mirror or lens cover but when they BUY, they are paying by the pound for the steel.  Nothing more. Is this a ripoff?  Maybe, but they have to take it off and they have to wait for a customer to come along who needs that particular part. They have to clean it and they have to warranty it. They have to find that customer. Parting it out yourself if a PIA and it requires a storage lot before the final customer comes along. You can do it, and there may even be money in it in the end, but it’s definitely not money for nothing. Does this mean that the rear view mirror on a 2008 Camry is worthless? Absolutely not. To the right customer at the right time it might be worth quite a bit, but they're still hard to sell.  

Edited by denverappraiser

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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I get it  - Thanks for your reply. 

 

I think I will drop by an auctionhouse and have them look at the diamond - then I will have an answer on the clarity grade an value of the ring. 

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Just out of curiosity, although some auction houses do have employees who are prepared to do a competent grading and/or appraisal, that’s not normally the case. May I ask why aren’t you using a professional appraiser?


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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1 hour ago, denverappraiser said:

Just out of curiosity, although some auction houses do have employees who are prepared to do a competent grading and/or appraisal, that’s not normally the case. May I ask why aren’t you using a professional appraiser?

Don’t know where I could do that here i Copenhagen, and I guess that I would also have to pay for it?

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Every pro I know in every field charges charges for their work, especially people who are actually qualified. This includes the auction houses by the way. If you want a 'free' bid, ask a pawn shop, although it sounds like you already did this.

Edited by denverappraiser
  • Like 1

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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Just a consumer but have been a beginner in buying diamond before and so wanted to alleviate one worry.  Yes you can have black inclusions centre in a stone, it is how easily it is seen with the naked eye which counts, the size and relief which counts as the grade.  Lots of consumers say they would not buy a stone with a black inclusion.  I have very good eyesight for seeing inclusions, can even see SI1 white inclusions with my eye when I know where they are although the diamond is a GIA SI1.  I own a diamond under 1 carat which is a G VS2 GIA it has a small black inclusion under the table but not centre, there is no way I can see it with the naked eye although it is very black under a loupe.  So don't let the black colour put you off if it is invisible.  However at SI2 I believe it is possible to see some inclusions with the naked eye depending on your eyesight, how close you are looking, in which light, is light behind you as I found that makes a difference and I can easily see with light behind my head e.g. before an upstairs window getting light from the sky.   A lot of it though has to do with knowing where the inclusion is prior in the ring and then you are focusing on that spot of the diamond.  Other people would not see it unless they are told in some cases.

Edited by Pyramid

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