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Aiming for 1.5C to look like a 2C (possible with 8-9KUSD budget?)

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Hi Guys!

 

so am looking at buying through james allen, and am looking at these three diamonds. Could I get any comments and suggestions?

My budget is at about 8-9K USD really really really really pushing it lol

 

Now Im guessing the most expensive is the best one,

1) but is it really much better than the rest, or are the others better value for money?

2) If the Symmetry and Polish are excellent, does this automatically mean the diamond will shine bright and is well cut? or are there other factors to it?

 

OPTION 1: USD 8,990

OPTION1.png.1eb9487bdb0c3364ed1c484072e7f154.png5ad10087efc81_OPTION1specs.png.8355982ad90016321cb1a2fd7e1da042.png

OPTION 2: USD 7500

image.png.f35474580d6f4ca9369bb908d9f6d6ca.png5ad10127a2d14_OPTION2SEPCS.png.07d323aba060af204c148cb2c6112b53.png

OPTION 3: USD 8,340

OPTION3specs.png.40382664b6768153f1c9571815e7b75c.png5ad1016442531_OPTION3.png.a408e858e34e5ef5fae53ca0f2235a9f.png


 

Edited by JHT

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Based on your thread title, I would lean towards #2.  It is a little bigger looking (6.94x6.44) as opposed to the first one (6.65x6.43) and it saves you a little money.  I am not partial to the faceting pattern on the third stone as it looks too busy from face up.  The faint fluorescence on the second stone will help the price without affecting the look of the stone in any way.

 

Hope this helps,

 

  • Like 1

Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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What tends to drive people on cushions is the shape.  Straightish sides vs. curved sides, square corners vs. round corners, square vs. rectangular, etc. You've chosen 3 rather different looking stones. Do you have a preference here? 

The only one that even approximately meets your specs is #2 (at least 1.50ct, big look, low price). 

If I may ask, since size and price are your stated hot buttons, why are you looking at 1.31/F/VVS2's?

Edited by denverappraiser
  • Like 1

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

 

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.

Professional Appraisals in Denver

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The other difference between #1 and #2 is the length to width ratio.  The first is a 1.03:1 ration which appears square.  Anything below 1.05:1 will look square.  The second is what I call off square or a fat rectangle.  There is no right or wrong, just a matter of personal preference. 

  • Like 1

Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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sad

14 hours ago, JHT said:

Hi Guys!

so am looking at buying through james allen, and am looking at these three diamonds. Could I get any comments and suggestions?

My budget is at about 7500USD with 8500 USD really really really really pushing it lol

Now Im guessing the most expensive is the best one,

1) but is it really much better than the rest, or are the others better value for money?

2) If the Symmetry and Polish are excellent, does this automatically mean the diamond will shine bright and is well cut? or are there other factors to it?

Not much to add to Laurent's and Neil's comments on the three stones, but I'll try to provide a direct answer to your explicit questions instead:

0) You can't really get a 1.50 to look like a 2.00 unless you go for a very different shape or cutting pattern - or at least one of the two is quite poorly cut (e.g. a 2 carat with a hugely thick girdle). Daussi cut very flat stones that look very large; the downside is that not everybody likes the look. Here is a photo of a 1.57 - clearly not suitable for what you want: it's coloured (fancy brownish greenish yellow), it's rectangular, it's in a ring and it's sold, but it demonstrates Daussi's cutting style pretty well:

r4110bb.jpg

the centre stone is 8.15 x 6.26 which dwarfs many standard 2 caraters.

Here's a 1.35 (equally not suitable, but a little squarer) that came in at 7.82 x 6.84

r3249b.jpg

1) The first one seems to be better cut and it's squarer than the others - both attributes drive price up, but value is in the eye of the beholder: it's not the largest (l x w), the whitest or the highest clarity. People value these attributes differently, and I know some that would go for the VVS because it's a VVS: for them it's "better value". A cut snob would likely steer you towards #1 because of what they value instead. The question is: what do you value?

2) Absolutely not. Symmetry and polish are secondary factors in cut quality; while they will make a minor difference, you definitely cannot rely on them as either signalling a well cut stone or as a comparative proxy for cut quality (i.e. not all "EX/EX" look better than all "VG/VG"). Stay at "Good" or above and you'll be fine.

  • Like 1

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Oh man thank you so much guys!

Its definitely more complicated than I thought. Looking at these

i think I might just buy at a store vs online. 

It's more important for me to get a good quality ring,

though and hoping to get at least 1.5C  

 

what do you think is a realistic budget?

 

 

 

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Your budget is perfectly reasonable - but you need to decide how to use it: is 1.50 an insurmountable barrier? It doesn't seem so (the F/VVS was 1.31, IIRC). Neither is "colourless" (two H in your "liked" three). Do you prefer rounded corners (e.g. #3) or squarer ones (e.g. #1)? Is square within 5% a must?

My (and Neil's) question about how you got down to these 3 is precisely this: what features attracted you to those?

Here is one I like on paper, for example: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/C157-709472597?cid=diamondreview&utm_source=diamondreview&utm_campaign=affiliate&utm_medium=feed Is it better than any of the three above? I don't know.

Shopping in a shop has pros and cons: you are able to see what is there. But only what is there.

Edited by davidelevi
  • Like 1

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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Thanks guys. 

to be honest, I chose them based on their stats. (How big, and well cut it is)

-im really clueless to these things and they all look the same to me! Haha.

 

ive heard that an H is usually more than good enough and the

clarity, can go to vvs since it won't be seen with the naked eye. 

So I figure, invest in size and cut. 

 

I guess to better answer the questions and so its easier for you guys to help me out,  

Ive attached a photo of what I saw on her Pinterest  

 

could you help me figure out what to look out for

to match what she likes?  (This looks like a square-ish cushion??)

What particular cushion cut it is, etc  

(size wise I know she wants a 1.3 at least, 1.5 realistically, and 2.0 preferable)

 

 

 

E65A95C8-1821-4F6A-8F8F-4F6A15F729D7.jpeg

A2BA9372-B31F-4E52-88EB-F703BC5EB8D1.jpeg

Edited by JHT

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I guess most important, is to have a good quality cut ring, that sparkles/

Should at least be clean from the naked eye, and well I guess at the very least bigger than a 1.3C.

 

 

Edited by JHT

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OK - you seem to have some things bass-ackwards:

4 hours ago, JHT said:

Thanks guys. Well

to be honest, I chose them based on their stats. (How big, and well cut it is)

ive heard that an H is usually more than good enough and the clarity, can go to vvs since it won't be seen with the naked eye. 

So I figure, invest in size and cut. 

There is no reliable cut grading for cushions; vendor-issued cut grades are a) not comparable and b] not based on any serious, published research. This is your single biggest problem.

VVS is a very high (and expensive) clarity grade - VS2 or SI1 inclusions still won't (usually) be seen with the naked eye, so if that's all that is required and budget isn't unlimited start looking at VS2/SI1, not at VVS.

4 hours ago, JHT said:

Also I think it should be big enough, and radiant. 

The color and clarity as long as it's clear to the naked eye. 

"Big enough" means nothing - see above for how variable a cushion can be in face up size. "Radiant" is equally undefined: do you mean brightness, fire or scintillation? The latter with large flashes or pin-flashes?

Colour has nothing to do with clarity - you can have a W-X that is perfectly clear, and a D that is full of black inclusions.

I don't mean to sound like your mom (or mother-in-law), but what I'm trying to say is that unless you understand the terms and are then precise with your requirements you will fall prey to the best salesmanship rather than getting what you actually want - never mind at a reasonable value-for-money price point.

My suggestion is:

0) Accept that diamonds - and cushion cuts especially - are far less commoditised than consumer electronics, cars or IKEA furniture. Each one is reasonably different from the others and sometimes visually insignificant details mean large differences in fair prices. You can't order "one of these" unless you are largely indifferent to what you get.

1) Clarify to yourself (possibly with discreet enquiries) what is it that she wants. "Adequate size" means nothing; 1.50 is objective but it exposes you to stones going from 8 x 4 to 6 x 5, rectangles and squares. The photos you posted seem to suggest a fair amount of roundedness around the corners, a squarish aspect, and a reasonably "classical" (as opposed to H&A or "crushed ice") cutting style. But that's all I can understand - and a lot of it is guesswork!

2) Choose a vendor or two. Online or local it doesn't matter; what matters is that they need to be prepared to work with you, call stones in, take photos, videos and - if you like and require this sort of things - reflector images.

3) Start working with your chosen vendors, but keep going out to other jewellers and looking at stones. You may find that as you see a few dozens instead of 1 or 2 you discover that (e.g.) curved sides are more appealing than straight ones. Or that larger facets and higher crowns result in more fire and relatively less brightness and you like that. Or...


Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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21 minutes ago, davidelevi said:

OK - you seem to have some things bass-ackwards:

There is no reliable cut grading for cushions; vendor-issued cut grades are a) not comparable and b] not based on any serious, published research. This is your single biggest problem.

VVS is a very high (and expensive) clarity grade - VS2 or SI1 inclusions still won't (usually) be seen with the naked eye, so if that's all that is required and budget isn't unlimited start looking at VS2/SI1, not at VVS.

"Big enough" means nothing - see above for how variable a cushion can be in face up size. "Radiant" is equally undefined: do you mean brightness, fire or scintillation? The latter with large flashes or pin-flashes?

Colour has nothing to do with clarity - you can have a W-X that is perfectly clear, and a D that is full of black inclusions.

I don't mean to sound like your mom (or mother-in-law), but what I'm trying to say is that unless you understand the terms and are then precise with your requirements you will fall prey to the best salesmanship rather than getting what you actually want - never mind at a reasonable value-for-money price point.

My suggestion is:

0) Accept that diamonds - and cushion cuts especially - are far less commoditised than consumer electronics, cars or IKEA furniture. Each one is reasonably different from the others and sometimes visually insignificant details mean large differences in fair prices. You can't order "one of these" unless you are largely indifferent to what you get.

1) Clarify to yourself (possibly with discreet enquiries) what is it that she wants. "Adequate size" means nothing; 1.50 is objective but it exposes you to stones going from 8 x 4 to 6 x 5, rectangles and squares. The photos you posted seem to suggest a fair amount of roundedness around the corners, a squarish aspect, and a reasonably "classical" (as opposed to H&A or "crushed ice") cutting style. But that's all I can understand - and a lot of it is guesswork!

2) Choose a vendor or two. Online or local it doesn't matter; what matters is that they need to be prepared to work with you, call stones in, take photos, videos and - if you like and require this sort of things - reflector images.

3) Start working with your chosen vendors, but keep going out to other jewellers and looking at stones. You may find that as you see a few dozens instead of 1 or 2 you discover that (e.g.) curved sides are more appealing than straight ones. Or that larger facets and higher crowns result in more fire and relatively less brightness and you like that. Or...

Haha please do sound like my mom! Haha

this is my problem, ive only read things about it, but really dont knw how to figure out whats good. ;-(

 

Thanks for your suggestions and will start working from that.

 

 

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7 hours ago, JHT said:

Haha please do sound like my mom! Haha

this is my problem, ive only read things about it, but really dont knw how to figure out whats good. ;-(

Thanks for your suggestions and will start working from that.

Don't worry - nobody is born with a lot of diamond knowledge!

We are here to help you understand and (hopefully) discriminate between good and so-so vendors and diamonds, so do keep asking questions.

Edited by davidelevi

Davide - Specialised Consumer Information and Assistance,
Diamonds by Lauren (http://www.diamondsbylauren.com)
davide@diamondsbylauren.com

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As you start working with a vendor or two, especially online, ask for comparative videos. Videos with several stones next to each other in a live or real environment as opposed to individual clinical vids taken with differing methods that really don’t allow you to compare them at all. 


Laurent George
Diamond Ideals
New York City

www.diamondideals.com
212-207-4845
laurent@diamondideals.com

 

 

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